Election 2012- Post Mortem

[KDawg]

There may be another thread discussing this (this is the first thread I've read this morning).

But last night, Kilmer was saying something I agreed with. (Which doesn't happen a whole lot. And, I think, might lend it some additional credibility.)

We're in for some serious ugly, in Washington.

America reelected Obama. But we also reelected the "death before allowing Obama to do anything" Congress.

The GOP is going to look at these results, and they aren't going to feel any urge at all to come together and allow anything to get done. In fact, they're going to see that the guy they reluctantly nominated for President, because he wasn't a mouth foamer, lost, but that all the mouth foamers in Congress won.

My gut says that the Fiscal Cliff is going to be held hostage. They're going to be making seriously unreasonable demands. More so than last time.

There's going to be a serious, ultra-partisan fight over the Fiscal Cliff.

There's going to be a serious, ultra-partisan fight over the sequestration.

There's going to be a serious, ultra-partisan fight over the debt ceiling. (Probably more than one.)

And every one of these fights has at least the potential to trigger another Great Recession.

Right now, my gut says that the odds are better than 50% that we will have another recession, in the next four years. Congress will deliberately cause one. (Because they figure that they can blame Obama for it. And they may be right.)

I'll be straight forward and honest and preface my statements with this: I'm political stupid. I admit that. I'm willing to be told, by either side, that I'm a complete moron, as long as it's explained why.

Larry, I don't always agree with your political stances (and for that matter I don't always agree with Kilmer's, either ) but, I'd like to ask you guys a question. It's not sarcastic, it's not tongue in cheek, there is no hidden meaning. It's a real question:

Isn't the information you posted above the reason why this country has some struggles? I'm not interested in hearing anything about the Republicans or the Democrats being the devil, either. I think both parties are at fault for the state of our country, regardless of who's in office. They stand off to the point where it's childish and it hurts our country. It's embarassing that this system divides us so much. How do you (and kilmer) and anyone else for that matter actually feel about the party system? Do you think its best for us as a nation?

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

QFT. Amen sir. I feel the same strains on my small business....providing healthcare and livelihood for 9 individuals has aready been made nearly impossible due to Obama. We're looking at possibly having to cut our operation down to 3 or 4 people now that Obama's been re-elected. Unfortunately, he's killing the small businesses that help run this country.

Healthcare premiums would have continued to rise with or without Obamacare. Obamacare is just making them rise more slowly, and hopefully, they will stop rising. And what taxes and new regulations has Obama actually imposed on small business? Hell, at that size, you don't even have to provide insurance for your employees.

I love these conservative "small business owners" - they blame every ****ing thing on Obama; it's Obama that's stopping them from hiring more, regardless of the actual facts on the ground. Stop listening to the far-right "unskewed facts".

I wish someone would put out a yearly budget for their business and show, chapter and verse, how their lack of hiring is DIRECTLY related to liberal policies.

I'm not interested in hearing anything about the Republicans or the Democrats being the devil, either. I think both parties are at fault for the state of our country, regardless of who's in office

No offense but part of what's at fault for the state of our country is misinformed false equivalent "everyone does it" talking points like these. The fact is, most of the problems of this country originate in Republican policy. Outsourcing to China? Republican policy. Deregulation? Republican policy (and Dems having to triangulate to it). Declining wages? Ditto. For all the faults of the unions, destroying them was the worst thing to ever happen to the American middle class.

Let's look at the debt ceiling problem as an example:

Democrats went to absurd lengths in acceding to Republican wants for spending cuts. To the point of a 10:1 ratio between spending cuts and tax increases. The Republicans decided to stonewall, leading to our nation losing its credit rating.

And the hilarious thing is that they tried to blame Obama for the credit rating going down, despite the agency who downgraded us saying explicitly that they downgraded our credit because they literally saw half of our political system go ****ing nuts.

That's pretty much the last 30 years of American political history.

Repubs want something, Dems try to compromise, Repubs reject ANY compromise but the most extreme and unfavorable, Dems accept because they actually want to get things done. That's why Clinton had to triangulate on stuff like NAFTA and welfare reform (the whole idea of welfare queens was a fake and frankly racist right-wing meme btw). That's why the Democratic Caucus is to the right of every other right-wing party in the world, let alone every left-wing party. And when Republicans have gotten a significant amount of time to implement their policies?

1980-1988 - the destruction of the American manufacturing base

2000-2008 - Great Depression 2.0

(also, 1924-1932, Great Depression 1.0)

Conservative ideology is not fact-based. Liberal ideology is. Yes I'm being partisan, but if one side was arguing that the earth is flat or the sun is at the center of the universe, I damn better well be partisan about it. Conservative talking points are consistently disproven by the facts leading to them making up their own facts to fit their worldview and trying to suppress opposing views..

Of course, the ideology can't be fact-based,

, people won't vote for it.

I refuse to accept that "both sides do it", because if you look at it objectively, it seems blindingly obvious that Republicans, and pretty much ONLY Republicans, are the problem.

[SnyderShrugged]

LOL, I'm already getting the angry neo-con accusations that its my fault Romney lost. They just cant seem to get it that the GOP LOST my vote that they probably could have had! We warned them ad nauseum, they didnt listen and they rejected us.

I love the look on their face when I calmly explain how they f'ed up. No defense

[pointyfootball]

I'm seeing alot of people on Facebook talk about how know everyone is gonna go on welfare. Where is this coming from?

If you can't lick 'em, join 'em?

A joke, a joke!

[AsburySkinsFan]

I felt the same way. I kenw that early on Romney would have a lead, but kept telling people, wait til NY reports, wait til Cali reports.....and before I knew it, it was over.

Yep, Obama had it wrapped before Ohio, Virginia or Forida were called.

[Btubes18]

Obama was going to win from day 1...I said it all along. Now he needs to get back to work. The real change will come in 2016. Glad question 7 passed in MD.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I'm seeing alot of people on Facebook talk about how know everyone is gonna go on welfare. Where is this coming from?

Yep, much wrist slitting today on the FB. I have one friend who is insisting that Romney will still win the popular vote, so "America really hasn't spoken". :doh:

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

No more signs, no more commercials. Reason to celebrate.

I agree but at the same time it is nice to live in a battleground state. Would hate to live in a south carolina or a California where the candidates don't even bother going into because its already a given who will win.

[Btubes18]

Healthcare premiums would have continued to rise with or without Obamacare. Obamacare is just making them rise more slowly, and hopefully, they will stop rising. And what taxes and new regulations has Obama actually imposed on small business? Hell, at that size, you don't even have to provide insurance for your employees.

...This I do not believe. How do you know healthcare preimiums would have rose more without obamacare? AND no way in hell will insurance premiums stop rising...come talk to me in four years and we will see how much your health insurance premium has rose, unless you don't pay for health insurance...

[twa]

LOL, I'm already getting the angry neo-con accusations that its my fault Romney lost. They just cant seem to get it that the GOP LOST my vote that they probably could have had! We warned them ad nauseum, they didnt listen and they rejected us.

I love the look on their face when I calmly explain how they f'ed up. No defense

I hope you enjoy the results of the choice,but I certainly don't blame ya'll

[SnyderShrugged]

I hope you enjoy the results of the choice,but I certainly don't blame ya'll

I will definitely not enjoy anything about our choices, but I knew how that was gonna work out many months before the convention.

just so you understand, I say this with bile in my throat and anger in my heart rather than glee. It was an opportunity lost for real true liberty and righting the ship. It makes me sick that the GOP threw it away out of nothing more than hubris and arrogance.

Thats what happens when you run a big government establishment big spender against another one.

[FanboyOf91]

LOL, I'm already getting the angry neo-con accusations that its my fault Romney lost. They just cant seem to get it that the GOP LOST my vote that they probably could have had! We warned them ad nauseum, they didnt listen and they rejected us.

I love the look on their face when I calmly explain how they f'ed up. No defense

NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoqti0lzAw&t=3m47s

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

...This I do not believe. How do you know healthcare preimiums would have rose more without obamacare? AND no way in hell will insurance premiums stop rising...come talk to me in four years and we will see how much your health insurance premium has rose, unless you don't pay for health insurance...

Yeah, my mistake - Obamacare caps premium hikes but that's coming in 2013. Even so, right-wingers scream that Obamacare is why premiums have shot up, when that could easily be just the normal increase year over year.

Also hopefully by 2016 we'll have single-payer so it'll be a moot point.

[Madison Redskin]

I will definitely not enjoy anything about our choices, but I knew how that was gonna work out many months before the convention.

just so you understand, I say this with bile in my throat and anger in my heart rather than glee. It was an opportunity lost for real true liberty and righting the ship. It makes me sick that the GOP threw it away out of nothing more than hubris and arrogance.

Thats what happens when you run a big government establishment big spender against another one.

Truth be told, had Ron Paul run against Obama or had Romney moved his camp in that direction, it would not have been nearly this close. Right or wrong, Ron Paul and his views are way outside the mainstream.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I hope you enjoy the results of the choice,but I certainly don't blame ya'll

Romey failed to convince the Moderates, and the Independents (Libertarians) rejected Romney...the fault is his because you have to capture one or the other, he chose neither.

[thebluefood]

LOL, I'm already getting the angry neo-con accusations that its my fault Romney lost. They just cant seem to get it that the GOP LOST my vote that they probably could have had! We warned them ad nauseum, they didnt listen and they rejected us.

I love the look on their face when I calmly explain how they f'ed up. No defense

Yup. I have to admit, I feel a little bit of satisfaction with the Obama victory if only to hear and see the laments of pissed off neo-cons/TEA Partiers about how we screwed everything up.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Yup. I have to admit, I feel a little bit of satisfaction with the Obama victory if only to hear and see the laments of pissed off neo-cons/TEA Partiers about how we screwed everything up.

Yep, ya'll are gonna get the Perot treatment for awhile.

[SnyderShrugged]

Truth be told, had Ron Paul run against Obama or had Romney moved his camp in that direction, it would not have been nearly this close. Right or wrong, Ron Paul and his views are way outside the mainstream.

If they had simply accepted RP supporters that won legal delegate slots and allowed them their rightful role at the convention, and added some core elements of the platform, many of us would have held our noses and supported Romney (some not all, of course)

We didnt decide to not support the GOP because our chosen candidate wasnt the nominee (most of us knew that harsh reality very early on), we decided not to support them because they didnt want us to support them and treated us accordingly.

[mike42]

This is what I don't understand about Replublicans and Democrats? The both of you are so busy fighting with one another that you've simply lose sight of anything important. Work together and get this thing figured out, my god you both are so stubborn.

Agree & I lean democrat, but I voted for Mitt to win for that reason because the last 4 years of working together has honestly been hell.

[thebluefood]

Yep, ya'll are gonna get the Perot treatment for awhile.

Well, they're gonna have to deal with it. From what I've heard Gary Johnson pulled in a million votes (still need to find a non-biased source on that) and is the highest polling Libertarian in history. I can't begin to tell you how proud I am to be a part of that.

If they had simply accepted RP supporters that won legal delegate slots and allowed them their rightful role at the convention, and added some core elements of the platform, many of us would have held our noses and supported Romney (some not all, of course)

We didnt decide to not support the GOP because our chosen candidate wasnt the nominee (most of us knew that harsh reality very early on), we decided not to support them because they didnt want us to support them and treated us accordingly.

[Rodriggo]

The face of the GOP will be fat or brown in 2016

:ols: Funny line and you nailed it. :ols:

Everyone said it was armageddon for the Republicans in Nov.2008, and it wasn't, it won't be now.

They'll put a new "face" on the candidate to appeal on a marketing level but it'll be the same old **** on the inside.

Change? The Republicans? Are you kidding me? If they change I assume everyone means they lose the extreme evangelical, racist populist constituent which becomes a third party but what does that leave? Upper and middle class white conservatives? Is that even 20% of the country counting non-voters? Is it even as large as that new third party Fascist Party?

Problem is that next time they're running against a woman who's also a Clinton so best of luck denting the changing demographics.

FYI Miami Cubans don't play well with other latinos, of course that level of nuance will be lost on the GOP.

Question I have is how a 50/50 country breaks 45/55 Republican in the House?

Biggest lesson of the night is that conservative white america can't elect a president on their own, not even after four years of slamming the brakes AND clutching the emergency brake while slinging the worst kind of made up **** all over the ******* place.

[SnyderShrugged]

Well, they're gonna have to deal with it. From what I've heard Gary Johnson pulled in a million votes (still need to find a non-biased source on that) and is the highest polling Libertarian in history. I can't begin to tell you how proud I am to be a part of that.

My blood boils when I revisit that youtube. How can anyone question why any of us didnt vote GOP?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

John Fund on Fox News talking about disturbing news allowing unregistered voters to vote in Ohio. They are also complaining about Pennsylvania and a mural of Obama. Also highlighting the member of the New Black Panther Party, although John Fund says he's just doing it for publicity. Talking about workers coming in from Illinois who registered and voted the same day in Wisconsin and how it is purely illegal, since they live in Illinois.

John Fund thinking that we need to look at voter fraud. Even if Presidential race isn't close, some state races are close and could have been turned by fraudulent voters.

Republican strategy for the past four years has been simple: disenfranchisement. Is that really going to be their strategy going forward?

They lost the black vote 95-5.

They lost the Latino vote 7-3.

They lost the single woman vote 6-4.

They lost the under 30 vote 6-4.

So, instead of courting these voters....they are going to try to keep them from voting? How this a viable strategy?

[Rodriggo]

So' date=' instead of courting these voters....they are going to try to keep them from voting? How this a viable strategy?[/quote']

Because courting these voters means they stop being the Republican party.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Reap what you Sow GOP

Millions of highly politically active Ron Paul supporters would have given Romney the edge he needed to win in a few states, especially OH and Fla . All that was needed was to include us in the process, recognize our successes at gaining delegates, and allow some of our ideas in the platform.

But the public rejection of our supporters at the convention sealed your doom.

The GOP told us libertarians in the party, who brought renewed energy, and awesome fund raising at the grassroots level to it, to get lost, and now they have paid for it.

Am I still allowed to do QFT?