Poll: Are we at a point where firing Haslett NOW should be seriously considered?

[respectgibbs]

I think they've been fine up until this year. They've just been awful this year.

Two years ago we were 31st ranked D. Made progress last year but Haslett hasn't had a good defense since '98 with the Steelers. I never understood why Shanny hired him, he's a natural born loser (you can see it in his face).

[Skins24]

I think they've been fine up until this year. They've just been awful this year.

Define "fine"

They were a disaster 2010. They had a few good games earlier on last year before turning atrocious.

This year bad doesn't even begin to describe them.

We have seen absolutely NO progress at all in any area. Get rid of this bum...NOW

[Squidley]

I'm gonna put this plain and simple...Fire Haslett

[Madison Redskin]

Why is this thread still going? Is there anyone on this board who thinks Haslett deserves one more shot? He turned a top 10 defense into a bottom feeder in 1 year and he's had nearly 3 years and we look worse today than when he took over. He's never been a winner and never will be.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

You could put Jim Johnson or Dick LeBeau or Monte Kiffin in their primes in charge of this defense and we wouldn't be much better.

We're starting 5 players on D that wouldn't start for a single other team in the league. Not 1 of them.

I said in another thread that we need a full defensive overhaul, but then I remember that we turned in a middle of the pack defense despite our offensive giving the ball away 35 times.

Who are those players that cannot start for a single other team? Madieu for sure I could see Jackson, but I'm sure there are worse 4-3 DEs/3-4 OLBs than him. Doughty? Probably. Our D-Line is slow, but they're powerful and generally play with good technique, and Jenkins is at worst as good as Carriker. Hall is decent, not terrible. Wilson was really good last year. We're not getting pass rush, but Rex Ryan got pass rush with worse front 7 talent. Sure his secondary was elite (or rather, his corners were elite, I never liked their safeties). Is our front 7 worse than Dallas? They're getting reamed today, but they've been one of the better defenses. Take Ware and Lee off that front 7 and it's a joke, and while their corners are good, they're not elite by any means yet. Their safeties are still crap. What about Miami? Their defense is good but it's not packed with overwhelming Pro Bowl talent. They have one good CB in Sean Smith, and a bunch of averageish safeties. Teams are putting good defenses together despite having holes. Why can't we?

Sometimes it looks otherwise, but here are the following differences between this year's D and last year's D which was a middle of the pack defense (our points allowed looks awful because we gave the ball away 35 times) that was top 12 in the NFL against the pass.

-Lou Spanos

-Brian Orakpo

- Adam Carriker

- O.J Atogwe

+ Raheem Morris

+ Jarvis Jenkins (who has been as good as Carriker)

Our safeties were pretty much the same in terms of quality - Landry was pretty much non-existent (and he's been terrible for the Jets, so no bellyaching about him).

All I can conclude is that Spanos is a really good football mind who made it a lot easier for Has to coach, and that Raheem Morris is a joke. Also that Orakpo is really important.

Look what happened to Josh Wilson. Last year, he was top 10 in the NFL in terms of passes completed against him. I don't want to see the numbers this year.

Fact is, Raheem Morris wasn't coach when the Bucs drafted Lynch and Barber and Kelly. Or when they assembled Sapp and Rice and Brooks. He never coached that defense, and he coached a completely different defense than what we run.

At best, I'd hire a real DC and give him another stint at DBs coach. But Haslett was here last year and we had a pretty decent pass defense despite the same level of talent as this year. His last coaching stop, his team imploded under him.

[SWFLSkins]

Morris was never DC in Tampa, and he inherited John Lynch, Brian Kelly and Ronde Barber (2 HOFers and a perennial Pro Bowler) as defensive backs coach. I'm really starting to think Morris was never that good. Remember, we had Jim Haslett last year too. We were top 16 against the pass.

Btw, nobody ever make a "trade Orakpo" thread ever again.

Right he was DB coach, then Head Coach. I still say he takes orders and co-ordinates with the top man on D which is Hazbeen. We had better safety play last year and much better QB pressure which affects backfield production.

---------- Post added October-28th-2012 at 05:42 PM ----------

Yeah, I said our scheme sucks as well. No talent + crappy scheme = Worst defense in football.

Can't argue that. I agree it is a combination and the absence of Rak and Carriker is quite an impact.

[HailToTheRedskins14]

Define "fine"

They were a disaster 2010. They had a few good games earlier on last year before turning atrocious.

This year bad doesn't even begin to describe them.

We have seen absolutely NO progress at all in any area. Get rid of this bum...NOW

2010 was an obvious rebuild team. We switched schemes completely. Don't know what some of yall were expecting.

Last year they were solid. Th fall off late in the year was mainly because of the offense. They had 6 turnovers in the last 8 games that gave the opposing team starting field position inside the 30 yard line. The offense basically gift-wrapped one TD per game for the D, and they still managed to be decent.

[Rypien1191]

Any chance of playoffs was lost last week when Cruz toasted us.

Cut Haslett on the bye, bring in a real DC and switch back to the 4-3 so we can have 7 weeks of practice before next season.

[justice98]

Remember when he used to blitz like crazy? They got one hit on the QB today and it wasn't even on Big Ben, it was the "sack" on the WR option pass. They've got to scheme up ways to get to the QB, cuz it's just not happenin'.

---------- Post added October-28th-2012 at 05:57 PM ----------

Define "fine"

They were a disaster 2010. They had a few good games earlier on last year before turning atrocious.

This year bad doesn't even begin to describe them.

We have seen absolutely NO progress at all in any area. Get rid of this bum...NOW

There's really no excuse for it. This defense should be hitting it's stride, and it's totally regressed. Who's to say who they would've been able to get without the cap penalty but it is what it is, you gotta suck it up, coach 'em up, and make do. The secondary's as bad as it's ever been, the MLB could be hitting his inevitable age decline (or he just could be hurt, who knows), the DL is just kinda "eh", and that was WITH Carriker (paging Jarvis Jenkins, are you even there). I don't know how much you're going to be able to fix it personnel wise, so the DC would be the next logical move to make cuz he's been the constant.

[Commander PK]

Cut Haslett on the bye, bring in a real DC

agree on Haslett, but it needs to be another 3-4 guy. Switching back to the 4-3 would be idiotic at this point. If you are going to do that, you might as well just keep Haslett because the time it takes to make any real progress on the 4-3 would be about as long as it takes to get Haslett to get the defense together if at all. 2 to 3 more years. Bring in another 3-4 guy (Rex Ryan maybe? if he ends up available) and fire up this team on that side of the ball.

[The Tris]

What I don't understand is how Haslett sits idly by on the sideline knowing that our down lineman can't produce a pass rush, but seems to be uninterested in trying different shakeups in the scheme to generate a pass rush.

It's not even the lack of adjustments that's so scary, its the complete lack of a game plan that is going to attack an offense.

That's the job of the coordinators each week, scheme a way you are going to attack and exploit the other team's weakness. We see that on offense each and every week, but nary a shred of a plan on the defensive side of the ball. It's like Haslett is simply sitting back and taking it, hoping Kerrigan wins his matchup or we get a batted ball. There is zero creativity.

What's scary is how much more conservative this defense is than even the most milquetoast days of Greg Blache. He's a 16 year old driving a sports car who doesn't know how to drive stick, so he plods along in first gear hoping he reaches a down slope to go faster.

PIT has one of the worst offensive lines we will face this year, with a rookie RT who makes Polumbus look like Walter Jones, and our defense made them look like the Hogs. Inexcusable.

I don't think there is a person on staff who is a qualified DC, but at this point, hell I'd put Phil ****ing Daniels at DC just for the chance that we might actually try something different.

[Sticksboi05]

The move to a 3-4 was foolish anyway considering we had personnel suited for a 4-3 and still do. Either way fire him over the bye.

[D'Pablo]

I think our linebackers and d-line are close to being as bad as the secondary. Again, I don't think it's entirely the secondary's fault. I think Haslett has been exposed by having some deficient talent.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I think our linebackers and d-line are close to being as bad as the secondary. Again, I don't think it's entirely the secondary's fault. I think Haslett has been exposed by having some deficient talent.

But the only real drop in actual talent was Orakpo to Jackson/Alexander/Wilson and MAYBE Williams from Doughty/Rookie Gomes, because Williams sucks that bad.

I guess Fletcher has lost a step, but that doesn't explain why Kerrigan can't get pressures, or Riley seems lost in space after being very good last year. That doesn't explain why Wilson was a top 10 DB in terms of completions per targets against last year, and has been terrible since the first game.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Okay I like Barry Cofield but I feel like the biggest reason we get no rush is because our NT is playing wayyy outta position.

It's year 3 and we still have no NT

[MartinC]

There are going to be big changes on defense both coaching and players for next year IMO.

Rex Ryan is likely on his way out as HC at the Jets - not a fan of his personality but he would be a massive upgrade at DC. Whoever the DC is though he needs some better talent to work with.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

There are going to be big changes on defense both coaching and players for next year IMO.

Rex Ryan is likely on his way out as HC at the Jets - not a fan of his personality but he would be a massive upgrade at DC. Whoever the DC is though he needs some better talent to work with.

I would love to have Ryan as our DC but where is the rumor that he might be out as head coach of the Jets come from? He is what 2 years removed from back to back AFC title games? Why would they fire him because of a couple down seasons?

[Kilmer17]

Haslett and Smith have ****ing sucked since day one and both are still here. Why should we expect a change?

[BraveWarrior]

I voted no only because I don't think switching in-season is going to make the defense any better. Right now, the better defensive minds in the NFL or college ranks are currently employed.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

The move to a 3-4 was foolish anyway considering we had personnel suited for a 4-3 and still do. Either way fire him over the bye.

I am curious how you would evision that working out with our players. Not that I disagree, just curious.

[MartinC]

I would love to have Ryan as our DC but where is the rumor that he might be out as head coach of the Jets come from? He is what 2 years removed from back to back AFC title games? Why would they fire him because of a couple down seasons?

No rumour just my speculation. That Jets team is a circus and I can see it all being blown up at the end of the year.

[Sticksboi05]

I am curious how you would evision that working out with our players. Not that I disagree, just curious.

I don't know and it doesn't matter cause it couldn't get worse.

[skins island connection]

Mike and Bruce should be on the horn to SOMEONE, or at least give the interim job to Rahamburger, because thats pretty much his M.O. ; I would doubt he could pull off a turnaround, otherwise he'd still be in Tampa Bay.

But there's no doubt about it Haslett just has to be let go. Yes, talent is lacking in the secondary, but lacking moreso in the coaching; I've said it numerous times before, and it bears mentioning again; Haslett has never done any good anywhere he's been, which includes a list of 10 teams, both as head coach and defensive coordinator.

What Mike saw in him I have no idea, outside of maybe Mike wanted the 3-4 and he was the only person available. Maybe Mike needs to re-evaluate the 3-4 being our players haven't grown into it, injuries, and lack of pressure due to injuries/less than adaptive adjustments due to injuries.

Its actually not a difficult decision; send Haslett packing and promote Raheem to interim DC, and go on a search for another DC; unless the defense does an absolute 180 from now on [ which I highly doubt ] and the receivers start catching the ball, it will not affect the rest of the season.

Getting a new DC in there, whether its Raheem or someone else will give him that much more time to evaluate the players and maybe come up with some changes that could possibly turn the season around; waiting til the end of the season only delays this process, which SHOULD be inevitable at this point.

Whats to lose?

SIC

[Binton]

I would love to have Ryan as our DC but where is the rumor that he might be out as head coach of the Jets come from? He is what 2 years removed from back to back AFC title games? Why would they fire him because of a couple down seasons?

Are you seriously asking that lmao

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Are you seriously asking that lmao

Yes, I was. they are saddled with Sanchez and a poor OC imo. I don't know why he would get fired other than the circus, but I do not know that he is the one that pulled for Tebow. Yeah he is a loudmouth, but I just dont see him getting fired.