Teller Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/29/young-people-socialism_n_1175218.html The poll' date=' published Wednesday, found that while Americans overall tend to oppose socialism by a strong margin -- 60 percent say they have a negative view of it, versus just 31 percent who say they have a positive view -- socialism has more fans than opponents among the 18-29 crowd. Forty-nine percent of people in that age bracket say they have a positive view of socialism; only 43 percent say they have a negative view.And while those numbers aren't very far apart, it's noteworthy that they were reversed just 20 months ago, when Pew conducted a similar poll. In that survey, published May 2010, 43 percent of people age 18-29 said they had a positive view of socialism, and 49 percent said their opinion was negative. . . . Indeed, the Pew poll also found that just 46 percent of people age 18-29 have positive views of capitalism, and 47 percent have negative views -- making this the only age group where support for socialism outweighs support for capitalism. This is old...December...but I just heard about it yesterday. I'd say this is certainly more of a threat to our society as we know it than creationists. $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Why push yourself when you can be average and get by?? ETA: This is also a great generational study. Most of these kids under 30 have absolutely no company loyalty. They've seen their parents or grandparents get canned after working 20 steady years, seen their pensions and retirement blow up in their faces and put more weight on their work life balance than previous generations. They've been learned to become more "me" focused and oddly enough, socialisms principles may support that better. Everyone gets a fair share, none of this ambition that is needed to succeed in capitalism, only to have your hard work pulled from under you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 That's extremely discouraging to me, as a member of that age bracket. I don't believe everything related to socialism is bad, but I can't imagine the United States as a socialist nation. At least, I can't imagine the United States being a prosperous socialist nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 In fairness to young people, capitalism has kinda sucked for the last 5 or 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 That's extremely discouraging to me, as a member of that age bracket. I don't believe everything related to socialism is bad, but I can't imagine the United States as a socialist nation. At least, I can't imagine the United States being a prosperous socialist nation. Remember, the time of the founding, things were much much different. The challenges we face today is being ambitious enough to succeed. I liken it to the grade school uniform debate. With no uniform, while you can express your style, you do have classes defined by the clothes that are worn and groups form from that. You have to go out and get the trendy clothes to fit in (such a materialistic world we live). With the uniforms, there's no pressure on style, no need to go broke buying the latest trends, and everyone is classed together with out "first impressions" of appearance getting in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooHog Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Why push yourself when you can be average and get by??ETA: This is also a great generational study. Most of these kids under 30 have absolutely no company loyalty. They've seen their parents or grandparents get canned after working 20 steady years, seen their pensions and retirement blow up in their faces and put more weight on their work life balance than previous generations. They've been learned to become more "me" focused and oddly enough, socialisms principles may support that better. Everyone gets a fair share, none of this ambition that is needed to succeed in capitalism, only to have your hard work pulled from under you. On the flip side, many companies have no loyalty to their workers. Companies get to decide they want to shed "excess" expenses and ship jobs overseas if they so choose. That said, there are young people (myself included) that love they company they work for, and there are companies, like the one I work for, that actually appreciate their people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtdrums Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Young people only favor the idea of the socialist utopia until they need to make a phone call on their Iphone while on the way to the shopping mall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Ummm....on many of the issues today we are already socialist. I have posted this definition of socialism from an economic standpoint before. Socialism is when the people (via their government) control the means of production or distribution of a good or service. For all of the fear mongering about how Obamacare will or has socialize our medical industry, I note my own experience with MS. I went to a a few state licensed doctors who diagnosed me and now prescribe me medications approved by the FDA which I either pick up at a state licensed pharmacy or have administered to me by a state licensed nurse in a state licensed facility. This has been true since before Obama became president. The state has had control of every step of my care. I have received very good socialized healthcare. Heck, even my insurance has to meet federal and state requirements. So, which part of this is capitalism? We have had regulation for years whether it is the FDA or the SEC. Much of our economy is socialist already by definition. For all of you who are vehemently against socialism, would you give up clean water, child labor laws, anti-trust protection, drug research, FDA, etc.? None of those belong in a free market capitalist system. We have socialism here now. Does it surprise you all so much that some aren't afraid of the label? The label has been a club of the right since the 50's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Yes it's an old piece. As to the threat of this state of conditions with the "young", (if the claims of are true) I'm open about whether it's a threat or progress (on noze!). And while your intent in staring this might be a relevant matter, it's a fine topic. But to me, a typical "HH icing on the cake" is that you bring up creationism. What does creationism have to do with the article? Consider the question rhetorical. :pfft: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Doesn't it depend on how you define the term 'socialism' ... public libraries, police departments, fire & rescue, access to no-cost education for K-12, Medicare and Medicaid, Interstates etc. might be seen as positive by most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAbrendan Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Why push yourself when you can be average and get by??ETA: This is also a great generational study. Most of these kids under 30 have absolutely no company loyalty. They've seen their parents or grandparents get canned after working 20 steady years, seen their pensions and retirement blow up in their faces and put more weight on their work life balance than previous generations. They've been learned to become more "me" focused and oddly enough, socialisms principles may support that better. Everyone gets a fair share, none of this ambition that is needed to succeed in capitalism, only to have your hard work pulled from under you. You pretty much hit the nail on the head. No doubt if the company I work for needed to cut costs, they wouldn't think twice about canning me. Granted, I'm not the COO or anything...but employee loyalty isn't quite there anymore for a lot of firms, either. That's not to say though that I don't have ambition and don't have the desire to make a ton of money and rise to the top. In this economy, new/better jobs can be very hard to come by for somebody my age. I've actually had two offers from different companies whilst at my current job, but turned them down for financial reasons. You can bet if something better came along that lined my pockets better, I wouldn't think twice about leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I suspect that young people don't like to be screamed at by old people. And watching enough tea party geezers and Fox News commentators scream "Socialism" about things that are completely mainstream has made these young people think that socialism must not be that bad after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 The challenges we face today is being ambitious enough to succeed. I would say the challenge in some ways lies more in being "lucky" enough nowadays when it comes to being very successful here; certainly not all the time...but it is becoming more of a prerequisite it seems. Upward mobility in this country has been in a free fall for some time now and is stagnating to the point where we're among the bottom of the pile as far as developed nations go, when we were "the place to be" for that some time ago. Would you suggest that is simply because, over time, everyone in the US has become less and less ambitious? Keep in mind that there are plenty of other nations which people here and elsewhere have derided as "socialist" where upward mobility is still good and actually getting better in some circumstances and that would, by the words and ideas of some people here and elsewhere, necessarily mean that they must be "less ambitious" or "less motivated". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAbrendan Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Would you suggest that is simply because, over time, everyone in the US has become less and less ambitious? I certainly think that my generation, and the generation younger than myself (I'm 25) have an inflated sense of self-entitlement. Laziness due to technology is factor, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Eh, Not everyone defines socialism the same way. Socialism is highly ambiguous term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooHog Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I certainly think that my generation, and the generation younger than myself (I'm 25) have an inflated sense of self-entitlement. Laziness due to technology is factor, IMO. I'm 27 and I definitely agree. I think the root cause lies more with the way kids are being raised these days. Coddled and protected and just generally getting through their youth without ever really learning hard lessons or earning things. God, I sound old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botched Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 They think socialism is what they do on Facebook and Twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 So, which part of this is capitalism? We have had regulation for years whether it is the FDA or the SEC. Much of our economy is socialist already by definition. For all of you who are vehemently against socialism, would you give up clean water, child labor laws, anti-trust protection, drug research, FDA, etc.? None of those belong in a free market capitalist system. We have socialism here now. Does it surprise you all so much that some aren't afraid of the label? The label has been a club of the right since the 50's. I agree with all of your posts except this. Libertarians and anarchists would argue that the free market system would provide cleaner water, better drug research, and better food safety oversight, and that child labor laws and anti-trust laws actually do harm to children and the economy as a whole. I think the argument that "none of these belong in a free market capitalist system" is dubious. But I agree with the main idea of your post, which seems to be that much of our economy is already socialized and not capitalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I certainly think that my generation, and the generation younger than myself (I'm 25) have an inflated sense of self-entitlement. Laziness due to technology is factor, IMO. Oh I certainly agree with that to an extent but remember you're also talking about the last decade or so there. The big downward spiral in upward mobility in this country has been going on for at least a few decades now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I certainly think that my generation, and the generation younger than myself (I'm 25) have an inflated sense of self-entitlement. Laziness due to technology is factor, IMO. I'm 27 and I definitely agree. I think the root cause lies more with the way kids are being raised these days. Coddled and protected and just generally getting through their youth without ever really learning hard lessons or earning things. God, I sound old. That's funny. As someone who is a full generation older than you, I disagree. I have a daughter in high school, and the high school kids that I see these days are substantially more serious, driven and mature than the kids I went to high school with. I suspect the same thing will be true in college and afterwords. It's all anecdotal, I guess. ---------- Post added June-18th-2012 at 01:14 PM ---------- I agree with all of your posts except this. Libertarians and anarchists would argue that the free market system would provide cleaner water, better drug research, and better food safety oversight, and that child labor laws and anti-trust laws actually do harm to children and the economy as a whole. Yeah, they actually do believe that. Never ceases to amaze me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 That's funny. As someone who is a full generation older than you, I disagree. I have a duaghter in high school, and the high school kids that I see these days are substantially more serious, driven and mature than the kids I went to high school with. I suspect the same thing will be true in college and afterwords. It's all anecdotal, I guess. What do you expect of the upper-crust, San Francisco elite, uber-progressive private school kids? Of course they are more serious, just like Harvard students are more serious than Radford students!:D:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAbrendan Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 That's funny. As someone who is a full generation older than you, I disagree. I have a daughter in high school, and the high school kids that I see these days are substantially more serious, driven and mature than the kids I went to high school with. I suspect the same thing will be true in college and afterwords. It's all anecdotal, I guess. LOL. I suppose I could see that. I mean, I went to a great high school and kids certainly excelled and wished to do better. I suppose just with conversing with kids my age in younger, I get the general sense of laziness and entitlement. I'm sure it's not like that as a whole, though. Part of me also thinks that every generation will view the next as lazy. I'm sure there is somebody in the Bible complaining about 'kids today' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan07 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I support some stances of socialism moreso than capitalism. However I do think America would be an awful socialist country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 What do you expect of the upper-crust, San Francisco elite, uber-progressive private school kids? Of course they are more serious, just like Harvard students are more serious than Radford students!:D:D There is some truth to that, actually. On the other hand, I went to McLean High back in the day, and that was (and is) a very rich area, and most of the kids there were the sons of successful doctors and lawyers and military officers and such.... and they were still a bunch of slackers and fools. Including me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Nobody understands what socialism is. Last year at our campus square at GW, we had Tea Partiers protesting the Hitler mustache painted on socialist Obama. I can guarantee that 49% of the kids in my age bracket don't support that 'socialism'. I count myself in the group that doesn't get the word "socialist". Whenever someone uses that term in dialogue with me, I always ask them to define it. And the definition always either sucks or is highly ambiguous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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