GibbsFactor Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I would say the challenge in some ways lies more in being "lucky" enough nowadays when it comes to being very successful here; certainly not all the time...but it is becoming more of a prerequisite it seems. Upward mobility in this country has been in a free fall for some time now and is stagnating to the point where we're among the bottom of the pile as far as developed nations go, when we were "the place to be" for that some time ago. Would you suggest that is simply because, over time, everyone in the US has become less and less ambitious? Keep in mind that there are plenty of other nations which people here and elsewhere have derided as "socialist" where upward mobility is still good and actually getting better in some circumstances and that would, by the words and ideas of some people here and elsewhere, necessarily mean that they must be "less ambitious" or "less motivated". I define luck as being prepared when opportunity presents itself. ---------- Post added June-18th-2012 at 04:30 PM ---------- Nobody understands what socialism is. Last year at our campus square at GW, we had Tea Partiers protesting the Hitler mustache painted on socialist Obama. I can guarantee that 49% of the kids in my age bracket don't support that 'socialism'.I count myself in the group that doesn't get the word "socialist". Whenever someone uses that term in dialogue with me, I always ask them to define it. And the definition always either sucks or is highly ambiguous. Hitler was a fascist. Ironically, the socially conservatives are closer to fascism than Obama. ---------- Post added June-18th-2012 at 04:34 PM ---------- [/color] Yeah, they actually do believe that. Never ceases to amaze me. Libertarianism in two words: Power corrupts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I define luck as being prepared when opportunity presents itself.---------- Post added June-18th-2012 at 04:30 PM ---------- Hitler was a fascist. Ironically, the socially conservatives are closer to fascism than Obama. ---------- Post added June-18th-2012 at 04:34 PM ---------- Libertarianism in two words: Power corrupts. Must be something in the free-market DrinkMore water that they've been drinking instead of socialized tap water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 As someone who identifies myself as Socialist (and fits the age group) it isn't laziness or wanting to be average and not wanting to do any work or any other bull**** straw man that people like to trot out, for me it is about humanity and about a sense of social justice. I attribute a lot of my ideological change to my life experiences and to the access to information that is readily available through a variety of means. I can expand on this if anyone wants but to get back on topic. The free flow of information has opened a lot of young peoples eyes and shown different ways of doing things that simply weren't available to older generations. In the past it was easy to scare monger and paint a ridiculous picture of the "others" ideology but now people come into contact with that "other" every day. Communists and Socialists (and any other -ist) could be painted any way with no regards to reality, now its much more difficult to do this as people can actually exchange ideas, see results of policies, and broaden their ideological horizons if they so wish. This free flow and exchange of ideas removes a lot of the dogmatism that some of the older generation holds with regards to ideologies. When the internet can bring you the effects of policies and economic ideology in real time it is a game changer. So I would say that this is a combination of the disaster Capitalism of the last few years, frustration with social mobility, and a greater access to information and different ideologies that takes away that "other" factor all explain this study and the changing attitudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Hitler was a fascist. Ironically, the socially conservatives are closer to fascism than Obama. Closer? With their emphasis on cultural identity, extreme nationalism, miltarianism, fear of immigrants and foreign influences, and goal of "saving the soul of the nation" through a return to a mythologized pure past? Dude, they are as close to fascist as you can be without going full jackboot. Funny thing is, thanks to Jonah Goldberg and Glenn Beck, they have no idea what fascism even is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Closer? With their emphasis on cultural identity, extreme nationalism, miltarianism, fear of immigrants and foreign influences, and goal of "saving the soul of the nation" through a return to a mythologized past? Dude, they are as close to fascist as you can be without going full jackboot. Funny thing is, thanks to Jonah Goldberg and Glenn Beck, they have no idea what fascism even is. Whats incredible is these people believe the exact opposite of reality, that socialism = fascism. When in reality it was the socialists and anarchists that fought fascism the hardest and were the most committed anti-fascists out there while more conservative organizations like the Church and the landowners embraced and facilitated fascism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Whats incredible is these people believe the exact opposite of reality, that socialism = fascism. When in reality it was the socialists and anarchists that fought fascism the hardest and were the most committed anti-fascists out there while more conservative organizations like the Church and the landowners embraced and facilitated fascism. Capitalism - Get the Eff out of my way Fascism - Do as I say Socialism - We agree to do as we say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Whats incredible is these people believe the exact opposite of reality, that socialism = fascism. When in reality it was the socialists and anarchists that fought fascism the hardest and were the most committed anti-fascists out there while more conservative organizations like the Church and the landowners embraced and facilitated fascism. I wonder if they ever heard of the Spanish Civil War. ---------- Post added June-18th-2012 at 02:05 PM ---------- Libertarianism in two words:Power corrupts. Capitalism - Get the Eff out of my wayFascism - Do as I say Socialism - We agree to do as we say I gotta say, I am enjoying all of your hilariously simplistic and wrong political definitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 What do you expect of the upper-crust, San Francisco elite, uber-progressive private school kids? Of course they are more serious, just like Harvard students are more serious than Radford students!:D:D I really liked that one (with all love to Predicto) Part of my first career was running high-end audio <video mainly later> stores, and one piece involved a rich Radford kid that started one such outlet. But he wasn't as uber-smart as he thought he was, though full of ego (a common partnering of personality traits). I ended up driving him out and taking over the store (he was also a total ****head, including to his employees). Based on my later years and current career, I'm grateful the dip wasn't a Harvard grad. I'm not that smart. :pfft: (all in fun--as Mork would say--"humor, arr arr" I grew up in Alaska and all the degrees/credentials I have came west of the Mississippi, so wtf do I know?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I gotta say, I am enjoying all of your hilariously simplistic and wrong political definitions. Spoken like a true elitest leftist jackass. Ever heard of Occam's razor? Stop making things so difficult. And nothing is really wrong with any of my definitions as I understand the meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Which one of those was suppose to be the putdown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiaticSkinsFan Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Ummm....on many of the issues today we are already socialist.I have posted this definition of socialism from an economic standpoint before. Socialism is when the people (via their government) control the means of production or distribution of a good or service. For all of the fear mongering about how Obamacare will or has socialize our medical industry, I note my own experience with MS. I went to a a few state licensed doctors who diagnosed me and now prescribe me medications approved by the FDA which I either pick up at a state licensed pharmacy or have administered to me by a state licensed nurse in a state licensed facility. This has been true since before Obama became president. The state has had control of every step of my care. I have received very good socialized healthcare. Heck, even my insurance has to meet federal and state requirements. So, which part of this is capitalism? We have had regulation for years whether it is the FDA or the SEC. Much of our economy is socialist already by definition. For all of you who are vehemently against socialism, would you give up clean water, child labor laws, anti-trust protection, drug research, FDA, etc.? None of those belong in a free market capitalist system. We have socialism here now. Does it surprise you all so much that some aren't afraid of the label? The label has been a club of the right since the 50's. nail on head. Its really an old relic of the Red Scare and McCartheyism. If you polled people on tenants of socialism, without telling them its socialism, they would vote for socialism Im also trying to figure out why socialism is so bad considering how good the people in Scandinavian nations live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 This makes me Not surprised; I was VERY liberal (quasi-socialist even) until Econ class at GMU. At least my generation's anti-war on drugs and pro-gay marriage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiaticSkinsFan Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Closer? With their emphasis on cultural identity, extreme nationalism, miltarianism, fear of immigrants and foreign influences, and goal of "saving the soul of the nation" through a return to a mythologized pure past? Dude, they are as close to fascist as you can be without going full jackboot. Funny thing is, thanks to Jonah Goldberg and Glenn Beck, they have no idea what fascism even is. yeah, its the greatest irony of all Americans do not understand these ideologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I agree with all of your posts except this. Libertarians and anarchists would argue that the free market system would provide cleaner water, better drug research, and better food safety oversight, and that child labor laws and anti-trust laws actually do harm to children and the economy as a whole. I think the argument that "none of these belong in a free market capitalist system" is dubious. But I agree with the main idea of your post, which seems to be that much of our economy is already socialized and not capitalist. Yeah, they actually do believe that. Never ceases to amaze me. Um, this libertarian doesn't agree with, well, any of those items. I think the federal government should regulate pollution in all interstate waterways (and all air pollution, by the way, since air can go anywhere), I recognize that there are drugs that just wouldn't be profitable to make yet really would help some people and therefore I actually don't have a problem with the government at least funding that type of research, don't have a problem with limited food safety oversight, support anti-trust laws, and support child labor laws (although I'd have them at the state level). What I have a problem with is something like the government not allowing people to buy unpasteurized milk if that's what they want to drink, or telling a state what it has to do with the water of some pond that people like to swim in in the summer, or dumping a bunch of money into the next erection pill (I don't know if that's actually happened, I'm just coming up with a frivolous medication off the top of my head). And, of course, a whole bunch of other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 All things equal, capitalism should be practiced by all. All things aren't equal so we need some socialism to balance the capitalism. I abhor the idea of a completely capitalist society as much as I abhor the idea of a completely socialist society. It's no wonder that the youth prefers socialism. Look at a company like Wal-Mart. A huge, huge company that squashes the competition. They are so big that they can't fail. They force smaller business to close their doors, they force the venders that choose to sell their products to make them cheaper. Nobody that is related to Wal-Mart benefits beside the company and the consumer. Perfect capitalism. Meanwhile, venders selling products through Wal-Mart make less money, perspective employees are paid less and potential competition is thwarted. Wal-Mart has perfected capitalism down to its greedy rotten core. This type of thing is happening across all industries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 This is old...December...but I just heard about it yesterday. I'd say this is certainly more of a threat to our society as we know it than creationists.$.02 Fear of the word socialism is a good way to identify Cold War relics :pfft: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 We were Reagan's kids... We grew up when the USSR had 100 ICBM s pointed at us while we slept. Socialism was the enemy and so was every other country that had Socialist in their name Nowadays, socialism means Switzerland and Germany and Denmark. Capitalism means Sarah Palin, Fox News and Donald Trump. Not really hard to see what's going on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Why push yourself when you can be average and get by??. The faults and abuses of capitalism are turning people away, and the fixing of the system is killing the American Dream and perverting our current system away from capitalism; It's not simply people being lazy. I'm personally in favor of certain socialized services, but do favor a capitalist market. However, there needs to be some regulation to ensure the system stays fair (in the sense that you or I actually do stand a chance). Currently the system/game is heavily stacked in favor of the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Spoken like a true elitest leftist jackass. That's a week off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 These kids are growing up during a terrible recession. I'm not surprised they would think some economic model other than our current one might be an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 This is what happens when the generation where everyone got trophies grows up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeesburgSkinFan Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 All things equal, capitalism should be practiced by all. All things aren't equal so we need some socialism to balance the capitalism.I abhor the idea of a completely capitalist society as much as I abhor the idea of a completely socialist society. It's no wonder that the youth prefers socialism. Look at a company like Wal-Mart. A huge, huge company that squashes the competition. They are so big that they can't fail. They force smaller business to close their doors, they force the venders that choose to sell their products to make them cheaper. Nobody that is related to Wal-Mart benefits beside the company and the consumer. Perfect capitalism. Meanwhile, venders selling products through Wal-Mart make less money, perspective employees are paid less and potential competition is thwarted. Wal-Mart has perfected capitalism down to its greedy rotten core. This type of thing is happening across all industries. Good. As a consumer I'm glad they've driven the prices down. I don't romanticize the overpriced Mom&Pop stores of yesteryear. Tough luck for them that they couldn't adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Good. As a consumer I'm glad they've driven the prices down. I don't romanticize the overpriced Mom&Pop stores of yesteryear. Tough luck for them that they couldn't adapt. I think what we lose here is the death of quality and more and more pressure to farm out American jobs to foreign countries to produce products at a lower cost and worse, a much cheaper standard. That's the downside to saving 26 cents on a box of Twinkies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Most kids are born and raised socialist: Free everything for the first 14yrs of their life. (being told what to do, how to do it and when to fix it) some get jobs..when theres not 50% unemployment for them like this year. keeping air/water/land clean - socialism - check catch all for basic schooling and healthcare - socialism - check catch all for basic trans/roads/BRIDGES!!! - socialism - check Take from the best countries in the world and make it your own should be the model . (My child made the All star team in softball) - We wanted to get the "East" team medals. not only did they say to do this we had to get everyone a medal, they stated it had to be every player of every team that played that year. So we bought 3 and gave them out of the back of the truck in the parking lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Closer? With their emphasis on cultural identity, extreme nationalism, miltarianism, fear of immigrants and foreign influences, and goal of "saving the soul of the nation" through a return to a mythologized pure past? Dude, they are as close to fascist as you can be without going full jackboot. Funny thing is, thanks to Jonah Goldberg and Glenn Beck, they have no idea what fascism even is. There you go with your "facts" and common sense and all. That kind of thing is so out of style these days. nail on head. Its really an old relic of the Red Scare and McCartheyism. If you polled people on tenants of socialism, without telling them its socialism, they would vote for socialism Really? You think so? Naaahhhhh. It'll never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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