Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 100 percent true. I dare you to tell Tom Brokaw to his face. My grandmother was a Republican. Do you know her favorite predident was? Jimmy Carter. Why? Because she was retired and her home was paid for by the late 70s. She had $100,000 in various CDs and was getting 18 percent interest on them. ---------- Post added June-19th-2012 at 01:50 PM ---------- i guess what i'm trying to say is we're entitled without having a way to support it. basically what you point out that in that generation you had the ability to have a lot of things that previously wouldn't have been available and there may have been a kind of coddling with government systems. May have been? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. what i'm saying is kids now expect those things even though they are greatly diminished or unavailable, and they are unwilling to work for them. Who know who thought that young people were lazy? Everyone in human history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 what i'm saying is kids now expect those things even though they are greatly diminished or unavailable, and they are unwilling to work for them. And I'm saying that the second half of this statement is pure nonsense. Young people have always been unfocused and dissolute. It's part of being young. Past generations weren't any better, we just romanticize the past. ---------- Post added June-19th-2012 at 11:52 AM ---------- You pay more, you should get more back. But I respect your generosity.PM sent. I accept cash, check or money order. I'm not giving anything back! hahahhahah suckers.... besides, I spent it all on a yacht, and what I have left, I need for lobbyists to make sure that the Bush tax cuts don't get repealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger187126 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 And I'm saying that the second half of this statement is pure nonsense. Young people have always been unfocused and dissolute. It's part of being young. Past generations weren't any better, we just romanticize the past. well i'm not old enough to know how young people were in the generation before me. but all i have to do is look at scenes like OWS and listen to people my age talk about utopian societies or ways that someone else should be responsible for paying for their education/healthcare/housing/expenses. i'm sure this has happened in every generation, but it's just more publicized because of social media and the 24 hour news cycle. not all of us can be as old as you farts and remember the yester-years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 besides, I spent it all on a yacht, and what I have left, I need for lobbyists It's true...here's a pic: Being in the 2 percent ain't what it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I'm not giving anything back! hahahhahah suckers.... besides, I spent it all on a yacht, and what I have left, I need for lobbyists to make sure that the Bush tax cuts don't get repealed. You mean AFTER you use as much of it as possible to create jobs, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 You mean AFTER you use as much of it as possible to create jobs, right? In China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Who know who thought that young people were lazy? Everyone in human history. I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint. --- Hesiod, Eighth Century B.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 ...and what I have left, I need for lobbyists to make sure that the Bush tax cuts don't get repealed. Sweet! At least someone really is looking out for the little guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words.When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint. --- Hesiod, Eighth Century B.C. He was right. It just took a lot longer than he expected, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 well i'm not old enough to know how young people were in the generation before me. but all i have to do is look at scenes like OWS and listen to people my age talk about utopian societies or ways that someone else should be responsible for paying for their education/healthcare/housing/expenses.i'm sure this has happened in every generation, but it's just more publicized because of social media and the 24 hour news cycle. not all of us can be as old as you farts and remember the yester-years You alrerady ARE that old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 well i'm not old enough to know how young people were in the generation before me. It's a shame that all the books in the world were destroyed in that fire. ---------- Post added June-19th-2012 at 03:54 PM ---------- but all i have to do is look at scenes like OWS and listen to people my age talk about utopian societies or ways that someone else should be responsible for paying for their education/healthcare/housing/expenses. That's what you take away from OWS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 That's what you take away from OWS? Does that really surprise you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 well i'm not old enough to know how young people were in the generation before me. but all i have to do is look at scenes like OWS and listen to people my age talk about utopian societies or ways that someone else should be responsible for paying for their education/healthcare/housing/expenses.i'm sure this has happened in every generation, but it's just more publicized because of social media and the 24 hour news cycle. not all of us can be as old as you farts and remember the yester-years Agreed. Kids are crazy these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 well i'm not old enough to know how young people were in the generation before me. but all i have to do is look at scenes like OWS and listen to people my age talk about utopian societies or ways that someone else should be responsible for paying for their education/healthcare/housing/expenses.i'm sure this has happened in every generation, but it's just more publicized because of social media and the 24 hour news cycle. not all of us can be as old as you farts and remember the yester-years Let's talk about student loans in particular because this is indicative of the good arguments that OWS has (and no, they aren't all good). Currently, the US government can borrow money at the lowest rates its ever been able to. I don't know the exact rate, but I believe its somewhere between 0 and 1% that the government can currently borrow money. Student loans were being granted by the federal government at an interest rate of somewhere between 2.5 and 4.5% depending on your loans. I'm sure some were even higher and maybe some were even lower. That being said, the government was able to charge higher interest on the loans they gave out compared to the interest they pay to borrow money. What does that tell you? The US government was making money on student loan programs. So, what happens when the student loans are about to balloon on people who are just out of school or otherwise are already saddled with this debt, the Congress decides that if you want to keep the rates as are, i.e. if you want the government to only keep making money at the rate are making money on these loans, then the Congress has to figure out how to cut other expenses. So, what ends up happening. Congress does nothing. On July 1, these young people who are already paying 2.5 to 4 times what the government is paying for this rate, are going to have to have to pay up to 7%. Why does this happen? It happens because the people with the money have bought and paid enough politicians in office that they will make sure that they never have to pay their fair share. The burden is carried disproportionately by the weakest. The strongest have put money into Grover Norquist to prevent their taxes from going up, and into a whole host of other special interests to prevent their interests. Why not tax oil companies more to make that up? Because oil companies already have the money to buy Congress and they spend their money making sure they don't have to pay more in taxes. This is just an example. The whole student loan problem is a good example of how OWS is RIGHT about what is wrong with this Country. Somehow, you are portraying the people who have less and are having their expenses raised as "lazy" but you don't realize that there are literally thousands of ways to keep these rates as they are, one of which is just to realize that the government is making a **** ton of money on these loans. This is what is wrong. The weakest are being asked to carry more of the load, and its why they will remain the weakest. The strong have consolidated enough money in power in politics that under the current system there is no way for them to lose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Agreed. Kids are crazy these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Good. As a consumer I'm glad they've driven the prices down. I don't romanticize the overpriced Mom&Pop stores of yesteryear. Tough luck for them that they couldn't adapt. Yet, there is something fundamentally wrong with prices going down. As inflation increases, people's paychecks increase, prices should go up. Prices of gas goes up, prices of houses go up. How does a company like Wal-Mart make prices go down? Knowing full well that prices should be up, how does Wal-Mart do something that goes against general economic theory? They have a huge market share, that's how. Say you make yo-yo's. You take pride in the yo-yo's that you make and think of them as your crowning jewel. Your yo-yo's are top of the line and you want top of the line dollar for them. Wal-Mart sees your product and decides that they would like to carry them. This is great, your business just boomed because it got picked up by Wal-Mart. Now, 90% of the yo-yo's that you make are sold at a Wal-Mart store and business is humming along quite nicely as a yo-yo manufacturer. That is until Wal-Mart wants to charge their customer less for your product. Unless you sell the yo-yo's to them at a deep discount, your product is discontinued and you lose 90% of your market. So, as the yo-yo maker, you are forced to sell your pride and joy at a 10% margin instead of a 40% margin... or lose 90% of guaranteed sales. You, the yo-yo maker doesn't make as much money and your 10 staff members is cut down to 2. But all is well because some guy Joe, who we don't even know, gets to buy a yo-yo for $6.00 instead of $9.00 and doesn't have to bother with some over priced Mom and Pop shop? I can't say that I don't like a bargain. I just realize that if I get a bargain, it's more than likely that somebody is losing money because of it. You can bet that Wal-Mart isn't losing any money giving all of these people bargains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamB Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 The lower prices at Walmart also come about from some of their other practices that most people do not really know about. For example: Truck drivers It is a fairly common practice now and days for big companies to require drivers to pay a "lumper fee" when they drop their loads. It used to be that a driver would also unload the truck. Companies then started providing "lumpers" who would, for a price, unload the truck for the driver. Then pretty soon, drivers were required to have lumpers unload their truck at many locations (and others made it an "option" that really was not an option), and to pay the fee. This could be anywhere from $75 upwards. My wife recently had to write a check at one drop that was $300 (she is a company driver, so she gets the money back on her next paycheck). This is basically like someone ordering a book from Amazon.com, and then requiring the UPS driver to pay 10.00 before they will take the package from them. However, its been this way for awhile and drivers have gotten used to it, at least the company drivers. Owner-Ops....not as much. Ok, so Walmart charges a lumper fee for deliveries that have to be unloaded at their d.c.'s. Fairly common practice and not all deliveries are actually unloaded at the dock. They also take drop loads (back trailer into assigned spot, unhook and go), so no lumper fees on those. Imagine my wife's surprise when she was informed she now had to pay them $50 to drop a trailer containing products they ordered at their d.c. Now think about how many deliveries Walmart d.c.'s get everyday, each of which either gets them $75 or $50 back on that load. It's not much, but it adds up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger187126 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Let's talk about student loans in particular because this is indicative of the good arguments that OWS has (and no, they aren't all good). ..snip.. trust me, when i was in college a couple of my friends graduated and were working $10/hour jobs just to get by and moving back in with their parents, and this was 6-7 years ago, since then it's only gotten worse. it took them a year to 3 years to find work that was conducive to what they spent 4-5 years and 50-100k on. now here is my problem: all things considered, by going to college you're taking on that debt of 10-100k with no guarantee on your investment. not only that, but most people i know tend to build up some credit card debt while they're in too. you are putting yourself behind the 8 ball for the next 5-30 years after you graduate because you owe obscene amounts of money. but like our government we're taught that debt isn't a bad thing, it just something everyone has and operates with. and you make this decision at a time in your life when you are probably least equipped to make sound decisions about your future. not to mention the compulsion to go to college comes from the borderline propaganda that we're fed once we hit middle school. now of course there are better ways to do it and i'm sure it's possible to leave college with minimal or no debt, but i'm willing to bet that's a far cry from the majority. like i said, their are other ways you can go about things. what's happening to the trades? i imagine (and hope) there will be a revival of trade school training and programs like that. as for what i take from OWS: it's like most mobs, someone has a good idea (or is a particularly persuasive person), but as the numbers increase it devolves into a disjointed mess of people who follow this new movement but lose their own voice and just go along with what they're told. this is easy prey and a pretty good weapon for leaders and smart people to use as they see fit. same deal with the tea party. start them out with an oversimplified idea that sounds too good to be true and attaches to some of their preconceived notions to get them hooked. reinforce this with out of context quotes and the occasional "look, we were right" moments, then you can move them how you want with more of the same ploys. fear and anger will let you move them one way or the other pretty easily. i assume this, as well, has been going on throughout history, but it is written by the victors and all. i just hate the catch-all that if a company or person makes or has made a lot of money they in turn owe us that money back. i get the premise of tax breaks, alternative to taxes, and things like that, but basically you've had a broken system for years (aka our tax code) and instead of fixing it we should just keep shifting numbers around to shift the burden. tax a group of people until that well dries up and then move on to the next group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 i just hate the catch-all that if a company or person makes or has made a lot of money they in turn owe us that money back. i get the premise of tax breaks, alternative to taxes, and things like that, but basically you've had a broken system for years (aka our tax code) and instead of fixing it we should just keep shifting numbers around to shift the burden. tax a group of people until that well dries up and then move on to the next group. This keeps being thrown out there and it's simply not true. Besides fringe groups, no one is advocating what you are saying. It's a complete misrepresentation of why some are calling for changes to the tax code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger187126 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 This keeps being thrown out there and it's simply not true. Besides fringe groups, no one is advocating what you are saying.It's a complete misrepresentation of why some are calling for changes to the tax code. I was specifically referencing the fringe groups in the first part. All i'm saying is that the way taxes work now is not working. Not just in how they are collected, but where that money goes as well. That's slightly beyond just the tax code, but that's what i'm talking about. We're in debt, but we have a rapidly crumbling infrastructure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 trust me, when i was in college a couple of my friends graduated and were working $10/hour jobs just to get by and moving back in with their parents, and this was 6-7 years ago, since then it's only gotten worse.it took them a year to 3 years to find work that was conducive to what they spent 4-5 years and 50-100k on. now here is my problem: all things considered, by going to college you're taking on that debt of 10-100k with no guarantee on your investment. not only that, but most people i know tend to build up some credit card debt while they're in too. you are putting yourself behind the 8 ball for the next 5-30 years after you graduate because you owe obscene amounts of money. but like our government we're taught that debt isn't a bad thing, it just something everyone has and operates with. and you make this decision at a time in your life when you are probably least equipped to make sound decisions about your future. not to mention the compulsion to go to college comes from the borderline propaganda that we're fed once we hit middle school. now of course there are better ways to do it and i'm sure it's possible to leave college with minimal or no debt, but i'm willing to bet that's a far cry from the majority. like i said, their are other ways you can go about things. what's happening to the trades? i imagine (and hope) there will be a revival of trade school training and programs like that. as for what i take from OWS: it's like most mobs, someone has a good idea (or is a particularly persuasive person), but as the numbers increase it devolves into a disjointed mess of people who follow this new movement but lose their own voice and just go along with what they're told. this is easy prey and a pretty good weapon for leaders and smart people to use as they see fit. same deal with the tea party. start them out with an oversimplified idea that sounds too good to be true and attaches to some of their preconceived notions to get them hooked. reinforce this with out of context quotes and the occasional "look, we were right" moments, then you can move them how you want with more of the same ploys. fear and anger will let you move them one way or the other pretty easily. i assume this, as well, has been going on throughout history, but it is written by the victors and all. i just hate the catch-all that if a company or person makes or has made a lot of money they in turn owe us that money back. i get the premise of tax breaks, alternative to taxes, and things like that, but basically you've had a broken system for years (aka our tax code) and instead of fixing it we should just keep shifting numbers around to shift the burden. tax a group of people until that well dries up and then move on to the next group. But you really didn't address much in my post. You threw student loans out there as an example of what is wrong with the youth, and as evidence that they are leeches (not your word). But, the student loan issue is actually much more indicative of a broken system where the rich and powerful are asked to do nothing and the poor and meek are the ones left to carry the biggest burdens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I'm really not surprised, nor even concerned over the poll results. They seem to be what most would expect, especially given the demographic polled. I think that younger folks in general (I was part of this group as well at one point) see the world through a different lens that often is based on high ideals, values and compassion. On the surface, I think socialism (regardless of its formal definition) often seems to cover all of those bases. its when faced with reality later in life that the hard truths come home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 The whole student loan problem is a good example of how OWS is RIGHT about what is wrong with this Country. Somehow, you are portraying the people who have less and are having their expenses raised as "lazy" but you don't realize that there are literally thousands of ways to keep these rates as they are, one of which is just to realize that the government is making a **** ton of money on these loans. This is what is wrong. The weakest are being asked to carry more of the load, and its why they will remain the weakest. The strong have consolidated enough money in power in politics that under the current system there is no way for them to lose it. It's worse than that. We have created a country where we have been convinced that EVERYONE needs to go to college. And we have created an entire industry where people get rich by processing student loans which are needed because we have told everyone that they need to go to college. This in turn has driven the cost of higher education sky high....creating a greater need for bigger student loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I'm really not surprised, nor even concerned over the poll results. They seem to be what most would expect, especially given the demographic polled. I think that younger folks in general (I was part of this group as well at one point) see the world through a different lens that often is based on high ideals, values and compassion. On the surface, I think socialism (regardless of its formal definition) often seems to cover all of those bases.its when faced with reality later in life that the hard truths come home. You sound like a socialist now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 So, according to Pew, most of our young people prefer coercion (the very core of socialism), sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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