Homer: Addressing the arguments against acquiring Robert Griffin III

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Coughlin was actually in his first year and they were coming off the heels of the Jim Fassel disaster 4-12 season in 2003

"Reasonable" means for drafting such a talented QB would require us to go 2-14, but this fan base simply doesn't have the balls for that

The fan base's "balls" won't play any role in the record anyway, so who cares lol...

[RFKFedEx]

Coughlin was actually in his first year and they were coming off the heels of the Jim Fassel disaster 4-12 season in 2003

"Reasonable" means for drafting such a talented QB would require us to go 2-14, but this fan base simply doesn't have the balls for that

You're right about year one for Coughlin. Despite the 4-12, 2003 under Fassel, IMO Accorsi had them set up personnel wise to take the blow of missing those picks in the upcoming years. *I thought it was a bad move at the time as Accorsi was on the brink of retirement, I was wrong. I just don't see it happening the same way for us given our previous decade of pissing away picks and sucking as a result.

[Aghar]

First, Nice read.

I undoubably fall into the "Griffin’s frame and durability come into question because of his style of play." category. He was a projected WR in the NFL this time last season by many, if not all scouts(Mel and Todd included). Out of High School he was considered a "Dual Threat QB" not a pocket passer. The same remains true now. How is he a pocket passer by some fans' standard here when he had 160 rushing attempts a season the last two seasons at Baylor? That 60 more attempts a season that Michael Vick had a VT! Last I checked people keep saying RGIII is not Michael Vick. They're right. RGIII runs MORE! And he also had some concerning injuries in the past for a running QB. A torn ACL in 2009 and and a concussion this year. Those are not necessarily red flags, but they should hold some reason for concern considering his style of play. It just concerns me that some people here make RGIII into something he is not. He is not a pocket passer. He does throw the long ball, and he throws it well. He does not sit in the pocket, or even roll out with the intent of making short accurate passes, quickly. That's the system currently in place in DC. With that said, is he better than anything we currently have? No doubt. Would I love to see him here, Absolutely. But I repeat myself. I would not trade multiple first rounders plus some additional 2nd and 3rd round picks for him. You do not make draft day history by trading away a record amount of picks for a player who is second best at his position. :2cents:

[Epochalypse]

You do not make draft day history by trading away a record amount of picks for a player who is second best at his position. :2cents:

Make a list of the best QBs in the game today. Whatever order you want, doesn't matter.

Now ask yourself, how much would it cost to get the second guy on that list?

The fact that Griffin III came out the same year as Luck has no bearing whatsoever on Griffin's ability to succeed at the NFL level.

If you think a guy can be a great QB, you make moves to get him.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

First, Nice read.

I undoubably fall into the "Griffin’s frame and durability come into question because of his style of play." category. He was a projected WR in the NFL this time last season by many, if not all scouts(Mel and Todd included). Out of High School he was considered a "Dual Threat QB" not a pocket passer. The same remains true now. How is he a pocket passer by some fans' standard here when he had 160 rushing attempts a season the last two seasons at Baylor?

You do realize that sacks are counted as attempts, right? Also VT had a stable of NFL-caliber RBs that they gave the ball to instead of Vick. Also you left out the fact that RGIII averages almost 250 more pass attempts a season than Vick did.

! Last I checked people keep saying RGIII is not Michael Vick. They're right. RGIII runs MORE! And he also had some concerning injuries in the past for a running QB. A torn ACL in 2009 and and a concussion this year. Those are not necessarily red flags, but they should hold some reason for concern considering his style of play.

A torn ACL that RGIII threw 3 TDs on after he sustained the injury.

It just concerns me that some people here make RGIII into something he is not. He is not a pocket passer. He does throw the long ball, and he throws it well. He does not sit in the pocket, or even roll out with the intent of making short accurate passes, quickly. That's the system currently in place in DC

Sounds like you haven't watched him play or studied what our offense does. It's not like the Mike Shanahan offense doesn't emphasize deep passing, or that there was a lot of short/intermediate stuff in the offense.

You do not make draft day history by trading away a record amount of picks for a player who is second best at his position.

This is probably the stupidest "knock" on RGIII I've seen and I've seen a lot of them. Because he's not considered as good as Luck, he's a 2nd tier prospect? Come on now.

[kiingspadee]

I have had people tell me not to worry about QB this season....it pisses me off more than anything. What an amazing article

[#98QBKiller]

In the words of the great Bruce Buffer...

to pull that trigger.

[Brian23VT]

I have been on the RGIII bandwagon since the middle of the college football season, after reading this Im even more excited. I really hope we can get him, we need this.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

He was a projected WR in the NFL this time last season by many, if not all scouts(Mel and Todd included).

Are you sure about that?...

[Brian23VT]

I just hope Cleveland doesn't come to it senses because if they really want him they can have him. he's worth 3 #1's and a #2

[Jim Bob]

The only argument not to get RGIII for whatever the price is would be if you are convinced that he will be a bust.

If you think he has a really good chance at being a Pro Bowl QB, then he's worth whatever price you have to pay.

Personally, I believe he has all the tools to be a very successful NFL QB and I'll be very happy if the Redskins trade up and get him.

[Riggo#44]

Murf -- why do I find I always agree with you? I think you might be as smart as I am.

But...are you as humble?

[TheLongshot]

If you think he has a really good chance at being a Pro Bowl QB, then he's worth whatever price you have to pay.

I wouldn't say any price. There is always an upper limit to what you should pay for a player, because you still need to build a team around the player. A Pro Bowl calibur QB doesn't do you much good if you can't protect him, give him people to throw to, or have a defense. How much better would, say, Archie Manning would have been had he been on a better team?

[HBnotBlades]

First, Nice read.

I undoubably fall into the "Griffin’s frame and durability come into question because of his style of play." category. He was a projected WR in the NFL this time last season by many, if not all scouts(Mel and Todd included). Out of High School he was considered a "Dual Threat QB" not a pocket passer. The same remains true now. How is he a pocket passer by some fans' standard here when he had 160 rushing attempts a season the last two seasons at Baylor? That 60 more attempts a season that Michael Vick had a VT! Last I checked people keep saying RGIII is not Michael Vick. They're right. RGIII runs MORE!

You might be overlooking the fact that the Baylor offense predominantly ran through RG3 on almost every play. Vick had more Rushing attempts than he did completions in each of seasons at VT. Doing some quick calculations from their stats, Vick had a rushing attempt about 40% of the time he dropped back ( approximated by passing attempts + rushing attempts) while RG3 ran about 27% of the time. As a comparison, Aaron Rodgers ran the ball about 20% of the time when at Cal.

When not running, RG3 threw for 7,794 yards with a 70% completion percentage, Vick threw for 3299 yards with a 56% completion percentage, and Rodgers threw for 5,469 yards at 64% . That's why RG3 is not Michael Vick, and it's why it's not fair to consider him a "running quarterback" because that generally applies to QBs who can run, but don't have top tier passing talent.

[moondog]

The good teams w/ elite QBs obtained their guys through reasonable means.

The Giants traded a lot for Eli, but he was placed into a system of stability and consistency. The Redskins have not yet had that luxury beyond the past year or two. Coflin was in his second year at NYG when Eli arrived, but the rest of the NYG's personnel structure had/has been consistent for decades. Don't get me started on the Packers, Steelers, etc.

I don't disagree with you that the NYG are one of the only teams to have really put themselves out there for the chance at an elite QB. And trust me, I was upset every year at our lack of draft picks and was elated last year at having 12, let alone the fact that they all made the roster before the year was out and so far it seems they were deserving (plus an undrafted guy like Willie Smith that looked serviceable).

But all of that does not discount that we NEED a QB. Everyone agrees on this so I am assuming that you are in the crowd of Manning or Flynn. Trust me, I get the idea of signing a guy, keeping all your picks and being able to get other needs such as Claiborne at safety and building more depth. But RGIII has all the characteristics you want in a quarterback - the arm, the athleticism, the accuracy and perhaps most importantly he has the intelligence and the drive. You cannot coach or teach that and if you believe him to be your guy, you do not hold back from getting him.

Do we have holes? Yes. But I would rather have an offense with RGIII, Vincent Jackson (assumption), Fred Davis and Hankerson along with our backs than what the alternative would be. I would love to have Claiborne, but the QB is just too important to pass up and I believe RGIII brings more to the table that this franchise so sorely needs than any player(s) combined in this draft. Given the FO proven ability to fill needs smartly and with value in FA with players that fit our needs, I am less concerned about our other holes and more concerned about properly addressing THE hole.

[LadySkinsFan]

Let's think about what RGIII might want: maybe to play in a huge media market town like DC? Really, we have it all here, and we need a QB with his personality, dedication and smarts to be here. Think about what this will do for every child in the area to look up to RGIII and his example of hard work and achievement? Would he really want to play in Cleveland?

[Aghar]

You do realize that sacks are counted as attempts, right? Also VT had a stable of NFL-caliber RBs that they gave the ball to instead of Vick. Also you left out the fact that RGIII averages almost 250 more pass attempts a season than Vick did.

I do realize this. However, the orginal article stated that RGIII and Vick should not be compared and stated "But RGIII isn’t Vick. In fact, he doesn’t even consider himself a running quarterback. Griffin is happy to call himself a pocket passer who has the ability to run with the football if need be." Running 160 times a season is 60 times more than Vick, a "Running QB."

A torn ACL that RGIII threw 3 TDs on after he sustained the injury.

I didn't question his ability to endure a painful injury. Simply said, it had occured and with his style of play may be a concern if it were to happen again.

Sounds like you haven't watched him play or studied what our offense does. It's not like the Mike Shanahan offense doesn't emphasize deep passing, or that there was a lot of short/intermediate stuff in the offense.

Again, you assume. I understand what this offense does and more than a few experts have said RGIII'S weakness may be his ability to throw the short, quick passes.

This is probably the stupidest "knock" on RGIII I've seen and I've seen a lot of them. Because he's not considered as good as Luck, he's a 2nd tier prospect? Come on now.

Stop it! Why is it everytime someone brings up a legitimate arguement against this, it's a "knock" against the individual. Read what I wrote originally and I'll leave it at that. I would like to see him here, or any QB for that matter, but not at a ridiculous price. Bringing up certain concerns I may have is not stupid, especially when you are willing to part with so much. Sorry, that's my opinion and I stick with it.

[LightningBuggs]

First, Nice read.

I undoubably fall into the "Griffin’s frame and durability come into question because of his style of play." category. He was a projected WR in the NFL this time last season by many, if not all scouts(Mel and Todd included). Out of High School he was considered a "Dual Threat QB" not a pocket passer. The same remains true now. How is he a pocket passer by some fans' standard here when he had 160 rushing attempts a season the last two seasons at Baylor? That 60 more attempts a season that Michael Vick had a VT! Last I checked people keep saying RGIII is not Michael Vick. They're right. RGIII runs MORE! And he also had some concerning injuries in the past for a running QB. A torn ACL in 2009 and and a concussion this year. Those are not necessarily red flags, but they should hold some reason for concern considering his style of play. It just concerns me that some people here make RGIII into something he is not. He is not a pocket passer. He does throw the long ball, and he throws it well. He does not sit in the pocket, or even roll out with the intent of making short accurate passes, quickly. That's the system currently in place in DC. With that said, is he better than anything we currently have? No doubt. Would I love to see him here, Absolutely. But I repeat myself. I would not trade multiple first rounders plus some additional 2nd and 3rd round picks for him. You do not make draft day history by trading away a record amount of picks for a player who is second best at his position. :2cents:

Good post. I'm one of those rare individuals who agrees with you here.

[terpskins10]

I do realize this. However, the orginal article stated that RGIII and Vick should not be compared and stated "But RGIII isn’t Vick. In fact, he doesn’t even consider himself a running quarterback. Griffin is happy to call himself a pocket passer who has the ability to run with the football if need be." Running 160 times a season is 60 times more than Vick, a "Running QB."

You realize that Baylor's offensive system called for more "designed runs", right? Griffin had more designed runs worked into his game than Vick did, something only the coaches had control over and not Griffin himself.

What you REALLY should be looking at is the number of times both players took off and ran AFTER dropping back for a passing play. Someone broke down the numbers a while ago, and Vick ran on over 40 percent of his dropbacks, whereas Griffin did on closer to 25-30 percent. His numbers were much closer to someone like Jake Locker or Aaron Rodgers rather than Michael Vick.

I don't think you can penalize a player for running on a designed running play and say that because he ran more, he's MORE of a running QB than Vick.

[Skinsinparadise]

The kicker for me, granted its just his opinion, was one Bill Polian said RGIII is can't miss and he and Luck are the best Qb prospects he's seen since Peyton. If Shanny thinks he's the real deal than IMO you need to pull the trigger. It's much harder to get the next Drew Brees than it is to get the next Vincent Jackson or David Diehl. We don't know if we are going to have a top ten next year. We also don't know if Shanny is going to like that QB or for that matter the team who can select lets say Barkley is going to want to trade the pick.

[Hitman21ST]

Stop it! Why is it everytime someone brings up a legitimate arguement against this, it's a "knock" against the individual. Read what I wrote originally and I'll leave it at that. I would like to see him here, or any QB for that matter, but not at a ridiculous price. Bringing up certain concerns I may have is not stupid, especially when you are willing to part with so much. Sorry, that's my opinion and I stick with it.

So in any other draft, he's the #1 QB and you're OK with trading the picks. But since Luck just happens to come out the same year, he's no longer worth them?

[pjfootballer]

I'm just astounded that any Redskin fan does not want to at least try for once to get an impact player behind center (whether it's RG3 or Luck) at the top of the draft after going through the list of turds we've lined up at QB ever since Rypien was released. 20+ years of garbage, retreads, past their prime, noodle-armed, stupid, scared, crappy, lousy quarterbacks and people are whining because we may have to give up a few picks (that have the same or more probability of busting).

Since 1991-92 we've won ONE (1)-----READ THAT -ONE!!!!! NFC East title. We're always in the basement. We've trotted out pro-bowlers and all-pros at every position except....QB. Since expansion to 32 teams and the current makeup of the NFC East after Arizona left, we have failed to win even one division title. We are picked last EVERY year.

Is this the direction you want to continue in? Do you want to continue to be laughed at as a franchise? Because everyone laughs at us. Do you not want that one weapon that teams fear or worry about? When's the last time someone behind center in DC scared the hell out of a defense? Good god people, get your heads out of your behinds. WE NEED A QB!!! Again, with my Herman Edwards voice...WE NEED A QB!!!

[Mursilis]

I just hope Cleveland doesn't come to it senses because if they really want him they can have him. he's worth 3 #1's and a #2

That's the one thing that could crash the RG3-to-DC Happy Train - Cleveland deciding they want him, and spending the 4 and 22 picks to get him. I really hope that doesn't happen.

[themurf]

You might be overlooking the fact that the Baylor offense predominantly ran through RG3 on almost every play. Vick had more Rushing attempts than he did completions in each of seasons at VT. Doing some quick calculations from their stats, Vick had a rushing attempt about 40% of the time he dropped back ( approximated by passing attempts + rushing attempts) while RG3 ran about 27% of the time. As a comparison, Aaron Rodgers ran the ball about 20% of the time when at Cal.

When not running, RG3 threw for 7,794 yards with a 70% completion percentage, Vick threw for 3299 yards with a 56% completion percentage, and Rodgers threw for 5,469 yards at 64% . That's why RG3 is not Michael Vick, and it's why it's not fair to consider him a "running quarterback" because that generally applies to QBs who can run, but don't have top tier passing talent.

Well done, sir. If I hadn't already written more than 1,900 words, I most certainly would have taking the conversation down the path you have. Seeing that Griffin runs a little more often than Rodgers but a lot less often than Vick is about where I'd expect him to be, so hopefully people like that local columnist I mentioned earlier will see he's not the quarterback they're attempting to portray him as. Thanks again for your contribution to the conversation.

Murf -- why do I find I always agree with you? I think you might be as smart as I am.

But...are you as humble?

Dude, I'm twice as humble as you'll ever be.

[DogofWar1]

I would not trade multiple first rounders plus some additional 2nd and 3rd round picks for him. You do not make draft day history by trading away a record amount of picks for a player who is second best at his position.

People have addressed other pieces of your comment, so I'll leave those, but this stood out to me.

Dan Marino was the 6th QB taken in the 1983 draft. Jim Kelly was the 3rd. And let's not forget about Big Ben, 3rd QB in the draft, Aaron Rodgers being the 2nd QB, Brees being the 2nd QB, etc. It's about skill-set, not whether they're the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 20th QB taken in the draft.

The issue is, in the past the meta was that teams could be highly successful with a stout defense and running game, and thus QBs didn't often go too quickly off the board. So yeah, ten years ago we'd probably be able to sit at 6 and get RGIII, but not today. Today true 1st round QBs go off the board immediately, and even 2nd round rated QBs come off the board in the 1st due to inflation (Ponder being the obvious example). The fact that Tannehill is being discussed as a potential top 10 pick, when his skillset is clearly 2nd round material, is proof of the shift in mind-set.

If the 2005 draft was this year, I would bet good money Rodgers and Smith go 1 and 2. If the 04 draft was this year, Manning, Rivers, and Big Ben go 1, 2, and probably top 7. I shudder to think what the 83 draft would look like if it was held this year.

RGIII is also better than most of the #1 QBs taken in the draft since P. Manning. He's certainly a better prospect than Couch, Pennington, Vick, Carr, Young, and Russell, and arguments could be made about some of the others. Barkley is an early presumptive #1 pick for next year, and RGIII was challenging him for the position of #2 QB behind Luck this year before he dropped out. Furthermore, Landry Jones was the #2 QB coming into the season, and RGIII had already surpassed him even before Jones started playing poorly.

Long story short, paying a bunch of picks to go after a true 1st round QB who probably would be the #1 prospect in most of the past 12 years is not a poor decision. If Shanahan likes him, he's worth the cost.