Homer: Addressing the arguments against acquiring Robert Griffin III

[HBnotBlades]

Good post pjfootballer, totally agreed.

It's definitely risky, but there are times that a big risk is actually reasonable and this is one of those times. I was strongly opposed to trading for Cutler, trading up for Sanchez, etc. because the time wasn't right. We had an old team in a precarious cap situation and those draft picks would be absolutely crucial going forward.

Now we find ourselves with a team that is not only drastically younger, but has a front office that has shown the ability to create picks and find good value in later rounds. That, plus the nearly $40M in cap space means we are in a position to risk multiple picks for an impact player and fill our holes through other means.

This is a young team, and they'll likely be improving and growing together over the coming seasons. That means that this year, when we are picking sixth, is the cheapest it will be to get a QB with a top of the draft skill set for the forseeable future. It is now, more than any time in recent history, that we are perfectly positioned to make a high stakes bet that could make us a consistent playoff contender for a decade. I believe it's time to man up and take that bet.

[leesburgvaskinsfan]

Good post pjfootballer, totally agreed.

It's definitely risky, but there are times that a big risk is actually reasonable and this is one of those times. I was strongly opposed to trading for Cutler, trading up for Sanchez, etc. because the time wasn't right. We had an old team in a precarious cap situation and those draft picks would be absolutely crucial going forward.

Now we find ourselves with a team that is not only drastically younger, but has a front office that has shown the ability to create picks and find good value in later rounds. That, plus the nearly $40M in cap space means we are in a position to risk multiple picks for an impact player and fill our holes through other means.

This is a young team, and they'll likely be improving and growing together over the coming seasons. That means that this year, when we are picking sixth, is the cheapest it will be to get a QB with a top of the draft skill set for the forceable future. It is now, more than any time in recent history, that we are perfectly positioned to make a high stakes bet that could make us a consistent playoff contender for a decade. I believe it's time to man up and take that bet.

I agree totally. Anything worth doing involves some sort of risk. But if it's a calculated risk and the rewards outweigh the risks...you go for it, if possible!

We are building a "team" with young talent and with more young draft prospects and FA talent to surround RGIII (starting RT, OL depth and WRs), things will FINALLY start to look up for us.

Gotta get RGIII. Carpe Diem!

Hail!

[TheLongshot]

I'm just astounded that any Redskin fan does not want to at least try for once to get an impact player behind center (whether it's RG3 or Luck) at the top of the draft after going through the list of turds we've lined up at QB ever since Rypien was released. 20+ years of garbage, retreads, past their prime, noodle-armed, stupid, scared, crappy, lousy quarterbacks and people are whining because we may have to give up a few picks (that have the same or more probability of busting).

Since 1991-92 we've won ONE (1)-----READ THAT -ONE!!!!! NFC East title. We're always in the basement. We've trotted out pro-bowlers and all-pros at every position except....QB. Since expansion to 32 teams and the current makeup of the NFC East after Arizona left, we have failed to win even one division title. We are picked last EVERY year.

Is this the direction you want to continue in? Do you want to continue to be laughed at as a franchise? Because everyone laughs at us. Do you not want that one weapon that teams fear or worry about? When's the last time someone behind center in DC scared the hell out of a defense? Good god people, get your heads out of your behinds. WE NEED A QB!!! Again, with my Herman Edwards voice...WE NEED A QB!!!

Well, we did draft three QBs in the first round in that time. One was an outright bust, one ended up a journeyman backup, and one that turned out to just be solid rather than a miracle worker. I can understand people being a little gunshy.

That being said, if you have the need at QB, and you can go up and get the guy who fits what you can do, then you should do it. The only real question is, do I trust Shanahan to make the right decision? Given his mixed record in actually selecting QBs, I don't know. But, we have little choice but to trust him.

[The Dude]

Great article. Not trading up will be a disaster for the Skins. If we don't get RGIII, the 2012 season (and beyond) is essentially over.

[Prototype]

We gotta look at it long term. If we don't get RG3 now, we'll continue to be mediocre at BEST, from 2012 and beyond. No way are we gonna pick high enough for Barkley next year, either. RG3 or continued mediocrity.

[terpskins10]

Well, we did draft three QBs in the first round in that time. One was an outright bust, one ended up a journeyman backup, and one that turned out to just be solid rather than a miracle worker. I can understand people being a little gunshy.

I wasn't old enough to know much about Shuler, but both Campbell and Ramsey were horribly overdrafted.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Let's think about what RGIII might want: maybe to play in a huge media market town like DC? Really, we have it all here, and we need a QB with his personality, dedication and smarts to be here. Think about what this will do for every child in the area to look up to RGIII and his example of hard work and achievement? Would he really want to play in Cleveland?

You know, I think the social impact of RG3 in DC is being over looked.

Here you have a very intelligent, bright, hard working young black man who can be an icon in this city. With the demographics of our area, this can't be overlooked.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I wasn't old enough to know much about Shuler, but both Campbell and Ramsey were horribly overdrafted.

Shuler was before my time, but you can research these kinds of things!

From what I have found, in a nutshell, Shuler was basically a white Akili Smith - athletic, big arm, but had one huge junior year in an offense surrounded by talent and really designed to take the pressure OFF of the QB in regards to making plays. He had serious problems with things like understanding anything beyond the simple option offense he ran at Tennessee, and couldn't digest an NFL playbook.

In contrast, Fulmur changed his offense for Peyton Manning to a more pro-style system, allowing him to use his natural quarterbacking abilities to be the true leader of the offense.

[SkinsHokieFan]

From what I have found, Shuler was basically a white Akili Smith - athletic, big arm, but had one huge junior year in an offense surrounded by talent and really designed to take the pressure OFF of the QB in regards to making plays. He had serious problems with things like understanding anything beyond the simple option offense he ran at Tennessee, and couldn't digest an NFL playbook.

In contrast, Fulmur changed his offense for Peyton Manning to a more pro-style system, allowing him to use his natural quarterbacking abilities to be the true leader of the offense.

Oh man Heath Shuler could not come close to getting the playbook down.

An anecdote, but my best friend's sister is about 12 years older then us. She was friends with a girl who was friends with Heath.

Heath had blown up the playbook in to large posters and essentially decorated the walls in his house with the playbook figuring if he just started long enough at it he would get it.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

And this guy is a United States congressman.

Oh wow.

Just.

Oh wow.

On so many levels.

But more to the point, Shuler really illustrates:

How coaches and GMs can fall in love with guys without really scouting them:

How drastically stud prospects differ from bust prospects. The busts tend to be physically talented guys who either have terrible intangibles, or big holes in their game that are concealed by external factors, such as playcalling, superior talent around them, etc, or are guys who only perform for one year and then are drafted based on that.

[justice98]

I hope I am completely wrong but I feel as though 10 years from now when we look back Luck will haveas much better career. Maybe it is just that I have seen Luck play more. Exciting time to be a fan nonetheless. Furthermore, I trust Shanny's ability to make the right choice.

I wouldn't mind Flynn either. I am conflicted. Lol.

I wouldn't mind RG3 at all, but I think the Flynn option allows you to go two for one. You can use the 6th pick on another need, like CB or trade down, and still get another decent QB early in the 2nd or later first.

[themurf]

I wouldn't mind RG3 at all, but I think the Flynn option allows you to go two for one. You can use the 6th pick on another need, like CB or trade down, and still get another decent QB early in the 2nd or later first.

While I wouldn't mind the team pursuing Matt Flynn if they thought he fit with what they want to do, there isn't a single person who covers the team who believes the Redskins are interested in him at all.

[terpskins10]

I wouldn't mind RG3 at all, but I think the Flynn option allows you to go two for one. You can use the 6th pick on another need, like CB or trade down, and still get another decent QB early in the 2nd or later first.

This depends on the false assumption that there are other starting-caliber QBs in this draft outside of Luck, Griffin, and possibly Tannehill. I don't think people have let go of the media hype about this draft class being deep at QB, when in actuality it's one of the more shallow QB classes of recent years.

Sometimes I think fans would rather SAY the team has done something about QB while adding shiny receivers and defensive backs than actually doing something about the QB position once and for all.

[HBnotBlades]

Well done, sir. If I hadn't already written more than 1,900 words, I most certainly would have taking the conversation down the path you have. Seeing that Griffin runs a little more often than Rodgers but a lot less often than Vick is about where I'd expect him to be, so hopefully people like that local columnist I mentioned earlier will see he's not the quarterback they're attempting to portray him as. Thanks again for your contribution to the conversation.

I always try to break things down into numbers when I can. It comes with the territory of being an engineer.

With those running numbers we have to take into account that on a rollout, Griffin will use his speed to take an easy 5 yards (or more) instead of throwing the ball away if there's nothing there. He's obviously a pass first quarterback, as evidenced in his numbers, but I don't see how being able to run when necessary can be construed as a negative. When Aaron Rodgers ran for 40 yards and a touchdown in the NFC championship game a year ago, picking up several first downs on broken plays, nobody said, "He's pretty fast when he runs, that means he's not a real QB".

[Skinsinparadise]

this article by Elfin, a good one, makes similar points

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/03/06/daivd-elfin-on-sports-trading-up-the-wise-move/

[pjfootballer]

I wouldn't mind RG3 at all, but I think the Flynn option allows you to go two for one. You can use the 6th pick on another need, like CB or trade down, and still get another decent QB early in the 2nd or later first.

While I wouldn't mind the team pursuing Matt Flynn if they thought he fit with what they want to do, there isn't a single person who covers the team who believes the Redskins are interested in him at all.

Add to the fact that "What in crimony Chistmas" has Flynn done to deserve this hype? I know Luck/Griffin haven't done anything either, but Flynn was a SEVENTH round pick. He was/is a backup. He was never supposed to be good. Again, Redskin fans want to take the "cheap" way out. Redskin fans settling for a project, a retread or a wannabe.

[skins island connection]

This depends on the false assumption that there are other starting-caliber QBs in this draft outside of Luck, Griffin, and possibly Tannehill. I don't think people have let go of the media hype about this draft class being deep at QB, when in actuality it's one of the more shallow QB classes of recent years.

Sometimes I think fans would rather SAY the team has done something about QB while adding shiny receivers and defensive backs than actually doing something about the QB position once and for all.

Not trying to argue your pro-con on RGIII, and the 'assumption', as you mentioned above, but the entire draft and every player in it will be based on assumptions, so in a way its a moot argument.

There are no 100% sure-fire absotively posilutely sure thing can't miss pick in ANY draft; its all based on performances in a lower skilled level, and at times there are players who 'seem' to play at a much higher standard in college than the others [ see NFL's top 10 draft busts ] and you'll get the idea of my point.

Yes, RGIII surely 'seems' to be one of the biggest answers to the current woeful [ not Wuerffel ] QB situation, but its not set and done.

He is a very good player, and everyone has him going in the top 5, but its just a figure; a hype; a hope; its not set in stone. I'd much prefer for Mike and Bruce to give their undivided attention, and fully scout every possible scenario, because if RGIII lands here, and things don't go good, 12-12-2012 might come early...

[rambler01]

OP,

That was an excellent write up....first and foremost.

You might have seen me around here once or twice...I've definitely voiced my concern over "trading the house" for Griffin III on numerous occassions. Your first two points are my argument no doubt and I stand behind them firmly. I want us to entertain St. Louis for that #2 overall; however, If the price is too high, trade down and collect picks like last year and continue injecting the franchise with talented youth on both sides of the ball.

I believe as a franchise, we are not a QB away from the Superbowl because getting there and winning requires a total team effort. Green Bay was the favorite to repeat and essentially their D failed to compliment Rodgers who himself had an "average" day by our standard of him. Brees on the other hand lit up that 49er #1 Defense for 450+yds and 4 Tds which should have been enough. Again, you need a total team effort and their defense failed to compliment the QB in addition to several dropped balls by the NO wide outs.

You can bring in the "franchise" QB to cover up your other weak points....but that merely makes us the Dallas Cowboys with Romo sits to pee (is that our goal, to be a medicore team with a talented QB making up for it?). I want us to dominate the NFC East for the next decade and get a couple Lombardi's out of it.....to accomplish this; you guessed it, a total team effort who utilize their talents on both sides of the ball.

If for whatever reason we "go all in" for Griffin III and he busts, it would absolutely set us back after the progress made from the 2011 draft. If we're talking about swappings 1sts, a 2nd, 3rd and 1st for the trade...I'm sorry, we have to say no to that (for all intensive purposes; those are 4 NFL starters which would impact this franchise). I'm not afraid to ask that "what if" question even among the masses of "stop being afraid".

Maybe it's my optimism, but I believe out of Weeden, Foles, R. Wilson, and perhaps Tannenhill lies a guy who will pan out that we could acquire in or after the 2nd rd SHOULD we miss out on Griffin III. That's just me however; I don't believe this entire 2012 draft hinges on RG3.

I'm in the minority around here...for good reason. Our front office needs to think clearly and make the best move for the ENTIRE franchise which ever decision that might be.

[justice98]

While I wouldn't mind the team pursuing Matt Flynn if they thought he fit with what they want to do, there isn't a single person who covers the team who believes the Redskins are interested in him at all.

If he's accurate, doesn't turn the ball over, and can make a play down field, he should fit what they want to do.

[Redskins4ever]

Griffin is certain't not flawless, but he fits in with what Mike Shanahan's offensive scheme is, and he's a gigantic upgrade over Beck and Grossman. If Grossman can pass for 16 TDs and 20 INTs, then RG3 can pass for 25 TDs and 9 INTs. With a new/young QB not turning the ball over, the chances of winning games goes up drastically. With Griffin, the Redskins can be anything between 7-9 and 11-5 with the tough defense we've got.

[justice98]

Add to the fact that "What in crimony Chistmas" has Flynn done to deserve this hype? I know Luck/Griffin haven't done anything either, but Flynn was a SEVENTH round pick. He was/is a backup. He was never supposed to be good. Again, Redskin fans want to take the "cheap" way out. Redskin fans settling for a project, a retread or a wannabe.

A lot of players were never supposed to be good, and then they were. The least important part of the Matt Flynn equation is where he was drafted 5 years ago.

[pjfootballer]

I believe as a franchise, we are not a QB away from the Superbowl because getting there and winning requires a total team effort.

I'm in the minority around here...for good reason. Our front office needs to think clearly and make the best move for the ENTIRE franchise which ever decision that might be.

I think what bothers some of us who want to draft a franchise QB is that the anti-traders think that we think we are a QB away from a SB. I "Do Not" think we are a QB away from a SB. Hell, we still may not make the playoffs next year (which is fine if we show progress), but we need a fanchise QB to be a competitive team year in and year out. You can build the team all you want, but just as Dallass has ignored other parts of their team to continue to be mediocre, we've ignored QB to the point where we can't even BE mediocre. Let me be clear again, getting Luck/RG3 will not in anyway convince me we are a player away from a SB, but it will bring some long needed respect and legitimacy to the position. Newton (not comparing their style) took the Panthers from the #32 offense all the way into the top 10 and took them from 2 wins to 6 in one year and it could be argued that the Panthers should have won at least 3 more games, if their defense wasn't so awful.

A lot of players were never supposed to be good, and then they were. The least important part of the Matt Flynn equation is where he was drafted 5 years ago.

And you just hit on the problem with him. "Five" years ago. He's played in 2 1/2 games in 5 years and has not been able to get a starting job in that time. If he was that good, GB would have seen that they would have had to make a decision and trade him sooner, rather than later. Now, they won't even franchise him, because he doesn't deserve it. I'd rather draft a guy coming from the collegiate level that has played and been relavant the last 3 years then to take a chance on a 7th rounder who's been riding the pine for so long. This has Scott Mitchell written all over it.

[JohnnyUtah]

I cannot wait for the draft to get here...or whenever it is we're going to be making a move. I desperately hope we land this guy. I feel like he would mean more to this franchise than anywhere else he would end up.

[HBnotBlades]

Maybe it's my optimism, but I believe out of Weeden, Foles, R. Wilson, and perhaps Tannenhill lies a guy who will pan out that we could acquire in or after the 2nd rd SHOULD we miss out on Griffin III. That's just me however; I don't believe this entire 2012 draft hinges on RG3.

The problem is that we, and many other fan bases, in the NFL have this discussion every year. The fact of the matter is that those second their of QBs rarely pan out to anything more than a backup.

For every Drew Brees or Andy Dalton that emerges from the second round you have ten players (or more) like Jimmy Clausen, Pat White, Brian Brohm, Chad Henne, John Beck, Drew Stanton, Trent Edwards, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson, Charlie Frye, etc. All of those guys were viewed as players who could develop into that franchise QB, and the results weren't good.

It is very, very difficult to find a franchise QB out of the top of the draft and trying to be stingy with the most important position on the field will likely put you in position to have a top 5 pick.

[Taylor4Life]

I remember your other article where you stated that we should trade whatever it takes to get Luck, and I wasn't on board with you. I am completely on board with you on this one, however. It's not because I think RG III is better than Luck, but just that we've got a reasonable shot to trade up to # 2 in the draft, whereas getting the number one would have required a ridiculous trade on our part.

I expect to see a lot of "smoke screening" between now and the draft, but let's hope Shanallen makes it happen and puts that man in some burgundy and gold.