Homer: Addressing the arguments against acquiring Robert Griffin III

[wrecker]

The only trade for picks disaster I can think of is the Herschel Walker deal.

Ricky Williams?

[SkinsHokieFan]

So we should take those rooks from the draft last year and tell 'em just wait, we have to suck even worse this season so we can make a run at a QB next spring, because apparently dealing up from #6 is not good enough. Another season of witless tank talk will have me tearing my hair out.

If ya play scared because of what Ole Bugeyes did in years past then you're not playing at all.

Yea, I led the tank the season talk and I have no desire to do so next year. I want to see an improving team.

The issue people seem to forget is the entire team will get older and quickly out of their primes by the time our 1st round pick NEXT YEAR takes over and is comfortable at QB

Bowen/Coefield will be in their 30s. 'Rak late 20s. Fletcher gone.

You need a team to grow together around its QB or else you end up like the Vikings did this past decade. Great all around, but sucked at QB until they were desperate for Favre.

Then the whole thing fell apart

Mike Shanahan-don't become the 2006-2010 Vikings

[ArmchairRedskin]

No Armchair, no team aside from the Giants has been bold enough to gamble on a heavy trade up for a QB. The only trade for picks disaster I can think of is the Herschel Walker deal.

I'd be more about taking this risk if we weren't less than a year removed from the release of McNabb, for whom we lost picks. All following a decade of scrapping picks which in part led to the suckage we're in today. I'm patient enough to allow Shanny another year to find his guy. Draft a second round QB this year, and if he's not the guy by this time next year, draft another QB. Snyder needs to be patient and allow Shanallen to build for a ten year plan. No more shortsightedness in Ashburn.

What's short sighted about trading up for one of the top rated QBs to come out in the last decade? Drafting a second round QB now and then having to trade up later is just delaying the inevitable.

[LD0506]

The issue people seem to forget is the entire team will get older and quickly out of their primes by the time our 1st round pick NEXT YEAR takes over and is comfortable at QB

Bowen/Coefield will be in their 30s. 'Rak late 20s. Fletcher gone.

Absolutely, we have seen the team build up a little momentum, solid new hires, some rook depth, good attitudes, etc., and I just think we squander that by hesitating now. If the FO tries and fails, then I can accept that, it's the nature of life, but I don't think I could stomach them not being willing to try. Manning is a stopgap and by the time he gets into a comfort zone with the team he's done and so are a lot of the others.

[cakmoney61]

Good god. Some of the logic in these replies is mind-blowing. Taking RG3 is too risky?? How the hell else would you like to get a franchise QB? EVERY first-round QB has high risk attached, and RG3 appears to have less than usual because he clearly has character. If he is too "risky," then who is safe?? The only safer player is Luck, and that's not going to happen. You want a veteran QB? Orton, Grossman, Garrard, take your pick of mediocre-to-crap QBs. Ohhh you want Peyton Manning. Guy coming off 3 neck surgeries. Yeah that's not risky at all.

The risk argument has got to be one of the dumbest I have ever seen.

How many high draft picks is too many for you? The RGIII or bust mindset scares me as a fan of the Redskins. This mindset is exactly what the Rams are hoping for from the Redskins. Again, I'm only curious. How many high draft picks is too many for you?

[themurf]

Quick update: I've been invited to come on with LaVar Arrington and Chad Dukes this afternoon to discuss this column. I'm tentatively scheduled to be on at 4 p.m. this afternoon, so feel free to tune in to 106.7 The Fan if you're interested.

[HBnotBlades]

I hate to keep going back to the real estate in the mid 2000s analogy, but people thought that buying property at any cost was 'worth it' bc you had nothing to lose knowing that it would forever go up in value. That's how I feel people are looking at RG3 in this slow off season with the thin projections on 1st round QBs of which there might only be 3 guys taken.

I don't know if that analogy is really appropriate because the housing crisis would be analogous to something happening league wide to devalue many teams investments in quarterbacks. Maybe a rule change that would severely decrease their value.

Since we're talking about one specific player and not the overall value of an elite QB league wide, I think we can come up with equivalence in terms of housing. I'd say we're a family that's been in the market for a house, haven't found one we like yet, and are currently in a dilapidated rental. A great house comes up on the market, it's brand new, in the right neighborhood, has the perfect layout, and even has an iconic tire swing tree in the front yard. You don't know much about the builders, but every inspector says the house checks out. There's always the possibility that the house could be built on a sinkhole, you could discover a crack in the foundation, or the market might collapse right after moving in.

The real problem is that the house is just outside your price range. Not so much that it's unaffordable, just enough that it will stretch your budget for the next few years to cover the home loan. Should you buy it? It may be a while until a house like this pops up again, and everyone you've seen over the past 10 years has been way outside your price range.

I would buy the house. If the market suddenly crashes after I bought it, well, that's a risk that would have been there for any house I bought so I'm willing to accept it.

[rambler01]

His footwork SUCKS. Shanny and the crew weren't impressed with him at the Senior Bowl for that reason, among others. His upper and lower body seem completely disconnected. He's not overly mobile (in the pocket, meaning he doesn't do a good job avoiding the rush), and his throwing mechanics get wonky at random points. The stats don't really tell the whole story about Foles. The Wildcats got down early and often and have no running game to speak of, so all those passing yards stack up when you're throwing from behind.

He threw 17 touchdowns to 4 interceptions at home...but threw 11 touchdowns and 10 interceptions on the road.

You have to keep the numbers the numbers in perspective. He threw for all those yards...and yet the Wildcats went 4-9. And his 4 wins came against Northern Arizona (small school beat down), a UCLA program that was even worse off than the Wildcats, Arizona State (who fell apart at the end of the season and lost their last four games and got destroyed by Boise State), and Louisiana-Layfette, who I'll given their due.

Your first paragraph is why Foles is projected to go in or after the 2nd rd in the first place. He has some things to work on before becoming an NFL starter; BUT, the potential is absolutely there in my opinion with his size and above average arm. The right kind of nurturing could help the kid build upon his senior season and be productive at the next level learning new skills while maximizing his current strengths (size, arm, ability to hit numerous targets). Improving upon QB play should be Shannahan's forte having been associated with Young, Elway and Cutler...Foles would flourish under his tutelage.

You brought up Foles numbers from last season; many of those 4,300+ yds were the product of playing from behind. So what does that tell you......he was constantly trying to compensate for an AWFUL Arizona defense he was forced to play with. Not to mention, he had inconsistent playmakers on offense (Foles didn't win alot of games at Arizona because WINNING games is a team effort).

With that said, Foles improved statistically every year as an individual. When you can toss for 4,300+ yds and not have ONE 1,000yd WR, that right there is a wonderful trait for the next level (spreading the ball around and doing what you can with minimal talent). As I've said before, if we could get this guy if the RG3 thing falls apart, then sign a veteran...I'd be very very pleased. Also, he got up and played some of his best games VS the better competition last season (see Oregon and USC).

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I don't know if that analogy is really appropriate because the housing crisis would be analogous to something happening league wide to devalue many teams investments in quarterbacks. Maybe a rule change that would severely decrease their value.

Since we're talking about one specific player and not the overall value of an elite QB league wide, I think we can come up with equivalence in terms of housing. I'd say we're a family that's been in the market for a house, haven't found one we like yet, and are currently in a dilapidated rental. A great house comes up on the market, it's brand new, in the right neighborhood, has the perfect layout, and even has an iconic tire swing tree in the front yard. You don't know much about the builders, but every inspector says the house checks out. There's always the possibility that the house could be built on a sinkhole, you could discover a crack in the foundation, or the market might collapse right after moving in.

The real problem is that the house is just outside your price range. Not so much that it's unaffordable, just enough that it will stretch your budget for the next few years to cover the home loan. Should you buy it? It may be a while until a house like this pops up again, and everyone you've seen over the past 10 years has been way outside your price range.

I would buy the house. If the market suddenly crashes after I bought it, well, that's a risk that would have been there for any house I bought so I'm willing to accept it.

So, wait...we have to buy RG3 a house, is that what you're saying?

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I honestly don't know what to make of Foles. He has the arm talent, and he's a leader, and unlike a certain R. Tannehill, actually produces. He certainly outplayed Tannehill against OKST, and he showed up against USC and Oregon, but his defense got run out of the building each time. His support system was probably not that much worse than RGIII's but then very few QBs could have done what RGIII did in terms of making a team that was that awful look competitive.

I think the big question is whether his deep ball accuracy is a product of poor mechanics, or just not having the natural accuracy.

But ultimately, I do not feel comfortable trying to take a chance on someone who has a far worse chance of panning out. I feel like he has a bit of Matt Schaub in him, and he might be a better developmental guy than Tannehill but what people forget is that it took Schaub 5 seasons to truly pan out. Shanny doesn't have 5 seasons. His lack of mobility also hurts as well.

[cakmoney61]

HBnotBlades

Truly enjoyed your post! I also want the house very badly, but not at any price. So, congratulations on your new home.

[HBnotBlades]

So, wait...we have to buy RG3 a house, is that what you're saying?

Yes, you'll be on the tire swing building committee and I'll start gathering materials for a picket fence. That's how this works right?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Yes, you'll be on the tire swing building committee and I'll start gathering materials for a picket fence. That's how this works right?

I think the tire swing is what will tilt things in the Redskins' favor :thumbsup:...

[rambler01]

I honestly don't know what to make of Foles. He has the arm talent, and he's a leader, and unlike a certain R. Tannehill, actually produces. He certainly outplayed Tannehill against OKST, and he showed up against USC and Oregon, but his defense got run out of the building each time. His support system was probably not that much worse than RGIII's but then very few QBs could have done what RGIII did in terms of making a team that was that awful look competitive.

I think the big question is whether his deep ball accuracy is a product of poor mechanics, or just not having the natural accuracy.

But ultimately, I do not feel comfortable trying to take a chance on someone who has a far worse chance of panning out. I feel like he has a bit of Matt Schaub in him, and he might be a better developmental guy than Tannehill but what people forget is that it took Schaub 5 seasons to truly pan out. Shanny doesn't have 5 seasons. His lack of mobility also hurts as well.

I see you might be coming around to Foles slowly. Whenever I talk about the kid, it's in the context of a backup to RG3 (This board is WAAAAY to attached to Griffin III and sometimes refuse to even address the other prospects). This is where I come in with Foles at least. Out of Weeden, R. Wilson, Tannenhill, Cousins, and Foles lies an NFL starter. I happen to believe that guy is Foles with some development. Some of us who actually take time to analyze the other prospects believe it's Weeden. I'm just happy to hear people talk about the other guys because this whole RG3 thing is a 50/50 proposition AT BEST!

All i'm saying about Foles is that he put up numbers with a VERY crappy offense. Imagine if you nurtured him a bit and surrounded him with NFL talent? It's a wonderful thought to me (and doesn't involve giving up the house ,farm, or the estate either, LoL).

Sign me up for the "NOT All In Committee".

[HBnotBlades]

I think the tire swing is what will tilt things in the Redskins' favor :thumbsup:...

We should probably just build it now. That way, if we end up with Foles he can use it to learn how to hit a target.

I kid. I kid.

[pjfootballer]

We are the only NFC East team since 1992 that hasn't been able to find our franchise QB. Dallas has had Aikman, a little bit of Drew Bledsoe and now Romo sits to pee. Philly had Cunningham, transitioned to McNabb and now has Vick. Giants had Simms/Hostetler tandem, transitioned to Kerry Collins, had a taste of Warner and now have Eli. What have we had? Garbage. Crap. It's our turn. If we get one of the big 2 (looking like RG3) I guarantee we won't be in the basement this season.

[KCClybun]

Quick update: I've been invited to come on with LaVar Arrington and Chad Dukes this afternoon to discuss this column. I'm tentatively scheduled to be on at 4 p.m. this afternoon, so feel free to tune in to 106.7 The Fan if you're interested.

Ah man, I gotta listen to LaVar's stutterin' ass and Chad Dukes kiss ass ass?

*sigh*

Alright dude. But I'm bringing a lot of aspirin!

[marvinmcneill]

No matter what happens its going to be an exciting offseason.

I'm on the Griffin bandwagon myself. I think that there are two factors that make going after RG3 a reasonable thing to do.

1) tons of cap room

2) low cost of high picks

Making a run at RG3 now is very different than it would have been in past drafts. RG3 is certainly a huge risk (all qbs are) but he won't cost much money. On top of that our current cap situation will allow us to get decent talent around him even with the lost draft picks. Hopefully he pans out and in two years we have a full stable of draft picks again, RG3 is rolling into his prime and we have 10 years to try win the big one. If RG3 doesn't pan out then we try again in a couple years when we once again have high draft picks.

The major downside to trading for RG3 is doing something about the tackle position. I think they want to keep their second this year to get a RT.

That being said the front office needs to set a price that they are willing to pay and stick to it. The reality is that if Cleveland really wants him there is nothing we can do about, and if Cleveland doesn't want him we are in the drivers seat and definitely shouldn't do something stupid like give up 3 first rounders...

[RandyHolt]

"As long as he ends up in the right system with a coaching staff that is willing and able to work with his skill set,'

That is the only thing that concerns me. And it concerns me about anyone we bring in, starting with Peyton. Does any Redskin fan think that Kyle knows more about playing QB than Peyton?

[themurf]

Ah man, I gotta listen to LaVar's stutterin' ass and Chad Dukes kiss ass ass?

*sigh*

Alright dude. But I'm bringing a lot of aspirin!

Quick update: Because the release of Peyton Manning is the only topic of the day, I've been bumped to Thursday at 5 p.m. So feel free to tune in to listen to me talk about RGIII and the Redskins tomorrow afternoon on your drive home from work. Hail.

[NOtoDC]

The only risk with RGIII is that bleep happens, and there is no such thing as a guarantee in football. Outside of unforseen things (injuries, etc), he has more of a chance of succeeding than failing when you really think about it. Also, when you think of the top QBs drafted over the past ten years, most have not been bust (Jamarcus is just skewed data). Ryan, Flaco, Freeman, might not be future HOFs, but their not busts. I think most teams are getting better at adjusting the system to the QB and bringing him along at the right pace. I mean Cam and Andy didn't even have a real off season with their teams. As far as the draft pick thing, a franchise qb is probably the most valuable pick in the draft so it's worth more than the next DeMarcus Ware to me. We can find WRs and RBs in the late rounds (Victor Cruz anyone), and a mobile QB makes all lines look good.

[The Dude]

There is no way RGIII is not an all-pro by his second year. You can't name one flaw in his game. It's almost comical that he'll fall to us at #2.

[London Kev]

I agree with a lot of the OP's arguments, and although I am worried about giving up too much for him, I would love to see Griffin in burgundy & gold. There is one big brown problem though.

A lot of fans seem very quick to dismiss Clevelands' interest in RG3, stating as fact that their unwillingness to give up both 1st round picks, excludes them from "the race".

Let's suppose that The Browns do want RG3. It doesn't make sense for them, (from a bargaining standpoint), to announce exactly what they are willing to give up right from the start. It could start a public bidding war with other teams, and doesn't leave them any room to haggle.

It would be far better to start with a low bid, define their limits, and then begrudgingly increase their offer only if there is competition from other teams or if The Rams absolutely demand it.

I believe that this is what Cleveland are doing, and ultimately they will get their man and we will be forced to look elsewhere.

[Phat Hog]

Giants essentially got picks 1 and 3 in 2004 and 1 and 5 in 2005 for Manning. I would gladly give that up for RGIII. However, I have heard the asking price for him up to 1,2 and 3 in 2012 and 1 and 2 in 2013...I would NOT make that trade. I am all for getting RGIII here, but it has to be somewhat reasonable...we do have other needs.

[NOtoDC]

I agree with a lot of the OP's arguements, and although I am worried about giving up too much for him, I would love to see Griffin in burgundy & gold. There is one big brown problem though.

A lot of fans seem very quick to dismiss Clevelands' interest in RG3, stating as fact that their unwillingness to give up both 1st round picks, excludes them from "the race".

Let's suppose that The Browns do want RG3. It doesn't make sense for them, (from a bargaining standpoint), to announce exactly what they are willing to give up right from the start. It could start a public bidding war with other teams, and doesn't leave them any room to haggle.

It would be far better to start with a low bid, define their limits, and then begrudgingly increase their offer only if there is competition from other teams or if The Rams absolutely demand it.

I believe that this is what Cleveland are doing, and ultimately they will get their man and we will be forced to look elsewhere.

I think most people recognize that Cleveland is in the driver's seat and are willfully hoping they go another direction. RGIII could always pull a Eli and put word out about where he doesn't want to go, but I guess you have to be a Manning to pull that off without being crucified.

---------- Post added March-7th-2012 at 04:13 PM ----------

Giants essentially got picks 1 and 3 in 2004 and 1 and 5 in 2005 for Manning. I would gladly give that up for RGIII. However, I have heard the asking price for him up to 1,2 and 3 in 2012 and 1 and 2 in 2013...I would NOT make that trade. I am all for getting RGIII here, but it has to be somewhat reasonable...we do have other needs.

It's all poker, and based on what the competition puts on the table. I think all realize it will take at least a 1 this year and a 1 next year. I could live with a 1 and 2 this year, and a 1 and 3 next year. but you have to ask yourself how much does a second or third rounder mean to you if you get the guy and he turns out as planned. Outside of a a dumb Ditka deal, I'm open to going get the guy.