ESPN: Robert Griffin III is a Washington Redskin (Merged-- The Everything RG3 Thread- Mocks,News, Rumors etc MET)

[KCClybun]

We are not arguing that you need to trade up to get a quarterback in the first round. We are arguing that drafting a quarterback in the first round offers you the best chance for future success, and that if Mike Shanahan really likes a quaterback and feels he can help us become a better franchise, if he does not fall to us, that the risk of trading up to draft him is justified, given that in today's NFL you need a quarterback to be successful.

And I am not making this argument strictly for RGIII. If RGIII went first and Luck was there, I would advocate the same thing. If Ryan Tannehill was on the same level as those two, I would make the same argument. Because history shows that, despite those three (really two, since Aaron Rodgers is still a first round pick) outliers, over the past decade and change, your chances of making the playoffs, getting to a championship game and making a Super Bowl increases when you take a quarterback with a draft pick.

I am not advocating just drafting for the hype. I do not want him if they don't feel like he can be a fit in this system. If Mike and Bruce find a prospect in the later rounds they feel is a better fit, so be it. But I feel as though this team has a better foundation than people give it credit for, and it is much harder to build a team when you do not know what you are building around. It is harder to build your offense and then insert a guy to run it than it is to find a guy and begin building the team around him.

I am not suggesting blindly throwing 3 draft picks at a player. I am saying that, if after ample scouting, interviews, planning, and serious consideration, we found that RGIII, or Andrew Luck, are the players who can help this team succeed in it's ultimate goal (winning a Super Bowl), than the risks involved with trading those picks (and we'd still have six picks in 2012 all likelihood) can be overlooked in place of the upside.

[terpskins10]

I wasn't proposing we sign Flynn, simply saying it's less risky than giving up 3 high picks for one player. And you're inaccurate anyway. Brees was a 2nd round pick and wasn't drafted by his current team. Aaron Rodgers was a late first round pick. Brady a 6th round pick. There is no formula. If there was one proven way of doing things, everyone would do it that way.

I laid out what I'd do. Doesn't include Flynn or giving up the farm for one player.

Okay, let's look at this situationally. I think you're failing to see the overall big picture by picking out several isolated and extremely unlikely incidents to prove your point.

Fact: Our HC has 11 wins in two seasons.

Fact: Our QB play was poor this season.

Fact: The NFL is a "show me" league. If we have a poor season next year, there's an extremely high chance that we lose our HC and have to start over, regardless of what Shanny is trying to sell us about the five year plan he agreed to with Snyder.

We have several options on what to do at QB. Let's look at them in order of likelihood GIVEN OUR TEAM SITUATION.

1) We find a diamond in the rough, a la Tom Brady. The Patriots drafted Tom Brady to be their FOURTH string QB, as they already had a Pro Bowler at QB that had been with the team for several years. The Patriots lucked into Brady being as good as he was and the fact is is that they didn't really NEED him to be. He was an afterthought on a team that didn't really need to fix their QB situation. Does that sound to you like our team? Do you think our team and this current regime can really afford to continue to start journeymen QBs in the hopes that somehow we draft a new Tom Brady? Over the last decade, almost ZERO QBs outside of the first round have become long-term starters for their team and statistical analysis has shown that teams are getting better at identifying good QBs coming out of college. This means that the already ridiculous likelihood of finding our own Brady is going to become less and less.

2) Some team decides to let a young, franchise Caliber QB hit Free Agency at 27. I wonder how likely that is? Oh wait, it isn't. So there goes your Brees argument.

3) A player who is predicted to be among the top 5 players and until draft day was in contention for the number 1 overall pick falls to 24. Neither Luck nor RG3 are going to be doing that come April. So no Rodgers for us.

4) We sign a FA QB like Matt Flynn. Backup QBs from other teams rarely pan out with their new teams. Flynn is especially underwhelming talent wise and has put up gaudy numbers with some of the best offensive talent in the NFL. Recall that 2 or 3 of his 6 TDs were based on huge YAC from screen plays and crossing routes. I highly doubt that Shanahan is going to stake his job on someone with that resume.

5) Ah, yes. Drafting our QB in the first round of the NFL Draft. You already know my argument here.

Given our team situation and the makeup of our roster, only options 4 and 5 are really viable and likely. NFL teams have shown year in and year out that superlative talent at the QB position trumps all others, and that means that you can afford to give away a high draft pick or two. The delta between someone like RG3 and someone like Flynn will more than make up for a lost starter or two in the draft. As I've also posted before, a lot of the "premium" positions where first round draft picks are most crucial (meaning, hardest to fill outside of the first round) are already full on this current roster. The most premium first round positions are QB, LT, pass rusher. We already have two of the three and its much easier to find receivers, corners, and linebackers outside of the first round. Therefore, the net loss from losing next year's first rounder really won't impact the team as much as you'd think, since that pick would have most likely gone to a CB or LB, which are positions easy to fill outside round 1.

So to conclude, if you look at the current makeup of this organization and this roster, trading up for a QB is the most sound solution to help continue the rebuilding process under Shanahan and provide our team with the best chance to be a contender for the next decade, not just next season.

---------- Post added January-11th-2012 at 03:33 AM ----------

I am not advocating just drafting for the hype. I do not want him if they don't feel like he can be a fit in this system. If Mike and Bruce find a prospect in the later rounds they feel is a better fit, so be it. But I feel as though this team has a better foundation than people give it credit for, and it is much harder to build a team when you do not know what you are building around. It is harder to build your offense and then insert a guy to run it than it is to find a guy and begin building the team around him.

System be damned. If you are a good QB, you fit in every offensive system. If you aren't, you won't fit in any. You don't pass on superlative talent solely because you think a lesser talented guy somehow fits some arbitrarily perceived notion of someone who "fits the system". Shanny is known to prefer "mobile" QBs. However, if it comes down to a mobile QB who can't pass and an elite passer who is not as fleet of foot, you bet your butt Shanny goes for the latter.

[UK_HOG]

Actually, everyone seems to be agreeing that the Packers are likely to franchise Flynn and thus get something in return for him, i.e. picks. So it's probably not going to just be a contract.

It's interesting to note the ages of those in the pro-trade up for RGIII and anti-trade up for RGIII camps. I think the 80's ruined a lot of older Skins fans. Those were glorious times and they think that blueprint is still relevant.

I am in the "older":rolleyes: camp but also up for trading for RG111/Luck. It's just not as simple as that though. We are not the only team needing a QB and Cleveland draft at 4 and they have 2 first round picks this year. If they decide they want him then they will have him and there will be nothing we can do about it.

[ArmchairRedskin]

I hate how people act like if we trade some draft picks then we can't help other positions. If Griffin is good he'll be here 10-15 years. You have all that time to fill in a great supporting cast. Draft and FA. We don't have to win right away. Peyton sure didn't win his first year. We could still build around him and by the time he hits his NFL stride we could have a really good team. The move is not gonna cost us two whole drafts. I mean, if we have any level of success with him we could be picking in the 20s in next year's first round. That softens the blow somewhat.

IF you hit on Griffin he could possibly be one of the all time greats. He's special. Even if he's not quite that good, but still pretty good, you're gonna have success. You guys should be salavating about his deep ball alone. Remember all the shots McNabb took deep but didn't quite hit? Griffin hits those. The whole dynamic of the offense changes with the threat of the deep ball. We don't have that right now. McNabb sorta had it and he was on pace for over 4000 yards. He just couldn't hit the other stuff regularly enough. Again, Griffin is accurate on those throws as well. He throws well on the run. He can make plays with his legs.He's smart. Good character. Players love playing for him. He's worth trading up for.

[GWinSkins83]

He better not bust if that's the price. I like him but I don't know if I like him THAT much. That's 3 possible starters for 1 player you hope works out.

That is not alot. Bears traded alot more. RG3 is worth that especially under Mike Shanahan. I have full faith in Mike to get the most out of RG3 and get him to a point to be the best QB he can be. I also have faith in Rg3 to put in the hard work to be the best QB that he can be.

Not if but when Rg3(barring injury) gets to that point we will look back at that trade and say we robbed someone for that pick. I sorry but to even question a trade like that for a potential superstar QB is hard for me to believe any Redskin Fan have.

---------- Post added January-11th-2012 at 07:02 AM ----------

So...you guys are advocating trading the #6 pick, next year's 1st rd pick (top 10ish), and another probably 2nd rd pick for Robert Griffin... a 6'2 QB who wishes he could run as fast as Vick...

Has this place gone insane??? We still have one of the worst O-lines in football, a weak defensive secondary, below average wide receivers, and need a ILB to play next to or possibly replace Fletcher if he leaves. 3 top picks is a HUGE gamble on a short QB. If I make that trade with St Louis, it's for Bradford, and some middle rd picks are coming back our way...otherwise...

Pass.

See you are one of few people that don't believe in RG3 being a good QB. So you will feel that way. But Rg3 is a perfect fit here for this team and system.

---------- Post added January-11th-2012 at 07:09 AM ----------

It's not worth the cost if he busts. It's a big risk to give up that much. Only worth it if he ends up being a pro bowl QB.

See you have no faith in our HC Mike Shanahan to get the most out of Rg3.

---------- Post added January-11th-2012 at 07:16 AM ----------

JaMarcus Russell was supposed to be a franchise quarterback. Ain't no guarantees. My point, it that people need to calm down. And, weigh everything. People seem in panic mode and that's when you make stupid decisions. I just don't think we should sell the house for Griffin. That's when you over pay. It's all going to come down to free agency. That's when we will know.

Yes, RG3 is an immense talent. Be he's not the be all. Because there just may be a lot of upset people when this is over.

Russell was out of shape at the Combine. People knew he was not a hard worker. So that was a sign right there not to draft him in the 1st round. Next our first this year, 2nd this year, and next year 1st is not selling the house. Bears gave Broncos 2 1st and 2 2nds. It didn't stop them from getting them to the NFC Championship.

[Probos]

Hearing that makes me want to vomit... I think Matt Flynn is fools gold. I think if we want to end this 20+ years of no franchise qb, we need to make this move ahead of Cleveland and get rg3

I'm gonna have to agree with this, even though it scares the F out of me moving up to get him. They're gonna have to give a lot.

[GWinSkins83]

It's valuing draft picks. Something this organization has never done, until last year. Now everyone wants to give up a ton to move up. Snyderesque. I don't think Mike will.

I never seen Synder give up picks to draft a potential superstar QB. This will not be like Snyder and people want to give up 50 million 20 gurantee to a back up QB that had one excellent game. Now that is Snyderesque.

[ArmchairRedskin]

If you watched the interview on CSN with Shanahan, you've noticed how his face lit up when Griffin was mentioned. I think Mike has seen him on film already and likes him.

[GWinSkins83]

Everyone acts like there are no other quarterbacks in this draft. None, aside from Luck and Griffin. I actually think two quarterback that will be good NFL quarterbacks: Cousins and Kellen Moore. With Moore being the biggest surprise quarterback coming out of this draft.

---------- Post added January-10th-2012 at 11:37 PM ----------

A quarterback, by the way, they drafted in the sixth.

First a Brady thing is not something you can hang your hat on. You can't just throw that around in here and act like its going to happen.

Next on to the Moore. First he has to build his body up. He is 190 if that. JPP, Babin, Cole, Tuck, Ware, and any other DE get a clean hit on him he will be done. Also he is Left handed. Which means we would have to which TW to the right side that can have an affect on his game. Also Moore is not a fit here. He doesnn't fit the Shanahan scheme. Its been a good story for Moore but he is not the reason they are so good. Its the coach. I gurantee they will win still with another QB. Same as they with another QB when they beat OU in a BCS game.

Next Cousins is not a future Franchise QB. He is a future stopgap, backup, or just out of the league.

You people thinking makes me fustrated. You want to put faith in guys that you should know its going to take 2 or even 3 years to even sniff a starting gig. And even then everything about them screams adverage QB. Unless you are throwing 40 times a games where they can dink and dunk it down the field.

[grego]

Actually, everyone seems to be agreeing that the Packers are likely to franchise Flynn and thus get something in return for him, i.e. picks. So it's probably not going to just be a contract.

where did you hear this? all i've been hearing is that the packers probably will not be able to franchise him even if they wanted to because they dont have the cap room to pay him what it would require (apparently, thats a prerequisite). that, and they are more likely to use the tag on finley.

do you have some inside info? if this is the case, then i say pass.

[Jethrodsp]

Draft RG3. Drink a lot of beer. Pray to the football gods.

Simple and to the point.

I like it.

[GWinSkins83]

With Flynn, all you're giving up as a contract. You wouldn't be giving up 2 first round picks and a 2nd round pick for one player, you'd just be giving up money. Pretty big difference. Trading up, will cost a lot.

Rather than trade UP and give up all that for one player, I'd rather trade DOWN like we did last year and gain an extra 2nd round pick and try to address multiple holes.

1 OG - DeCastro - Stanford

2 QB - Foles - Arizona

2 CB - Hosley - Virginia Tech

3 WR - Fuller - Texas A&M

4 RT - Ad**** - Oklahoma State

4 ILB - Cole - NC State

5 QB - Lindley - San Diego State

6 SS - Smith - Notre Dame

7 TE - Provo - Syracuse

This, in my opinion would give us an elite starting guard to bolster our interior OL in DeCastro, a Matt Shaub type QB in Foles. A good playmaking zone corner in Hosley, another WR prospect in Fuller, Someone to compete for the RT spot. A prospect to groom behind Fletcher and some depth at SS, QB and TE.

At this point, take Luck out of the equation. Colts are taking him and they aren't interested in trading out of the pick. If we're going to trade up for someone it'll be Griffin, and it'll take 2 first rounders and a 2nd rounder to do it. We'd need one hell of a FA class to even consider that. Because our picks will be depleted once again for one player.

That is a horrible draft by the way. Foles doesn't fit the system. Hosley is DHall lite. Fuller LOL you see him this year? You just throwing crap at the wall for real. Get Rg3 and it out weighs DeCastro, Foles, Hosley, and Fuller picks combined. Oh and how about we get two good FAs with Flynn's contract that you are willing to dishout.

---------- Post added January-11th-2012 at 07:57 AM ----------

I expect the Skins to sign a veteran like Garrard in the off season but still draft a RgIII because Rex cannot see the field again for this franchise regardless of how much Rex knows the system. I think the Skins will trade down in later rounds in the draft to acquire picks but I really feel this team will get a young franchise qb for once.

Naw I think we stick with Rex. He knows the system. No need to put your time trying to teach two QBs the system.

[TheGreek1973]

First a Brady thing is not something you can hang your hat on. You can't just throw that around in here and act like its going to happen.

Next on to the Moore. First he has to build his body up. He is 190 if that. JPP, Babin, Cole, Tuck, Ware, and any other DE get a clean hit on him he will be done. Also he is Left handed. Which means we would have to which TW to the right side that can have an affect on his game. Also Moore is not a fit here. He doesnn't fit the Shanahan scheme. Its been a good story for Moore but he is not the reason they are so good. Its the coach. I gurantee they will win still with another QB. Same as they with another QB when they beat OU in a BCS game.

Next Cousins is not a future Franchise QB. He is a future stopgap, backup, or just out of the league.

You people thinking makes me fustrated. You want to put faith in guys that you should know its going to take 2 or even 3 years to even sniff a starting gig. And even then everything about them screams adverage QB. Unless you are throwing 40 times a games where they can dink and dunk it down the field.

Are you forgetting that TW was a RT in college so if anything that would not be a big switch for him. Plus Moore will not be able to start right away either as he will need a year or two to develop. But Moore to me is worth a 5th if he still there, because the kid is a worker. Putting on muscle is not that hard if you work hard in the weight room. The issue is that his is not very tall and he doesn't have a strong arm. But man he is smart, accurate and a hard worker so yea i would love to get RGIII and Moore during this draft.

[GWinSkins83]

I hate how people act like if we trade some draft picks then we can't help other positions. If Griffin is good he'll be here 10-15 years. You have all that time to fill in a great supporting cast. Draft and FA. We don't have to win right away. Peyton sure didn't win his first year. We could still build around him and by the time he hits his NFL stride we could have a really good team. The move is not gonna cost us two whole drafts. I mean, if we have any level of success with him we could be picking in the 20s in next year's first round. That softens the blow somewhat.

IF you hit on Griffin he could possibly be one of the all time greats. He's special. Even if he's not quite that good, but still pretty good, you're gonna have success. You guys should be salavating about his deep ball alone. Remember all the shots McNabb took deep but didn't quite hit? Griffin hits those. The whole dynamic of the offense changes with the threat of the deep ball. We don't have that right now. McNabb sorta had it and he was on pace for over 4000 yards. He just couldn't hit the other stuff regularly enough. Again, Griffin is accurate on those throws as well. He throws well on the run. He can make plays with his legs.He's smart. Good character. Players love playing for him. He's worth trading up for.

I love this comment. Better than I can say it.

[sjinhan]

where did you hear this? all i've been hearing is that the packers probably will not be able to franchise him even if they wanted to because they dont have the cap room to pay him what it would require (apparently, thats a prerequisite). that, and they are more likely to use the tag on finley.

do you have some inside info? if this is the case, then i say pass.

Yeah if anything the Packers are going to be tagging Jermichael Finley and not Matt Flynn.

[dfbovey]

That is a horrible draft by the way. Foles doesn't fit the system. Hosley is DHall lite. Fuller LOL you see him this year? You just throwing crap at the wall for real.

Not a horrible draft at all. I have a hard time listening to anyone's opinion who starts off with "Foles doesn't fit the system". He's an accurate pocket passer and would fit a system better than Griffin would. To say otherwise tells me you don't really understand the system anyway. You'd have to bend this system and change it to make Griffin make sense in it.

[HigSkin]

If you watched the interview on CSN with Shanahan, you've noticed how his face lit up when Griffin was mentioned. I think Mike has seen him on film already and likes him.

Yep....:yes:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...kwQP_blog.html

Washington Redskins coach Mike Shanahan said that although the season has yet to come to an end, he already has begun evaluating the top college quarterbacks.

Shanahan said he makes a habit of evaluating college quarterback play at the start of each day, watching tapes given to him by the team’s pro and college scouts.

“I’ve already looked at 10 or 15 of them,” Shanahan said Friday afternoon. “I’ll take half-hour a day, early in the morning. The tapes are made up. I’ll look at maybe 75, 80 plays of just a guy throwing the football in game situations and so that’s most of the passes, or at least the good passes during the season, just so I get a feel for the guy.”

Shanahan said he “usually” starts breaking down quarterback midway through the season.

[paloosa]

Everyone on here will be surprised when we don't pick RGIII. I don't know who we will get but it won't be RGIII. He doesn't fit the Shanahan offense so don't jump all around like you just won the lottery until it actually happens. We don't have Vinny Cerrato or Mike Ditka as a GM because only those two idiots would bet the farm on an unproven college QB. If we do get him don't expect him to be the savior this coming year because it won't happen. Heisman trophy winners have a very minute chance of being successful.

[GWinSkins83]

Are you forgetting that TW was a RT in college so if anything that would not be a big switch for him. Plus Moore will not be able to start right away either as he will need a year or two to develop. But Moore to me is worth a 5th if he still there, because the kid is a worker. Putting on muscle is not that hard if you work hard in the weight room. The issue is that his is not very tall and he doesn't have a strong arm. But man he is smart, accurate and a hard worker so yea i would love to get RGIII and Moore during this draft.

He played that 3 years ago. He would have to get use to it again. Its not that easy to get that back. See Moore just doesn't fit here. I think he is WCO pure QB. Not for this system.

---------- Post added January-11th-2012 at 08:25 AM ----------

Everyone on here will be surprised when we don't pick RGIII. I don't know who we will get but it won't be RGIII. He doesn't fit the Shanahan offense so don't jump all around like you just won the lottery until it actually happens. We don't have Vinny Cerrato or Mike Ditka as a GM because only those two idiots would bet the farm on an unproven college QB. If we do get him don't expect him to be the savior this coming year because it won't happen. Heisman trophy winners have a very minute chance of being successful.

You lost all creditability saying RG3 doesn't fit Mike's system.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Everyone on here will be surprised when we don't pick RGIII. I don't know who we will get but it won't be RGIII. He doesn't fit the Shanahan offense so don't jump all around like you just won the lottery until it actually happens. We don't have Vinny Cerrato or Mike Ditka as a GM because only those two idiots would bet the farm on an unproven college QB. If we do get him don't expect him to be the savior this coming year because it won't happen. Heisman trophy winners have a very minute chance of being successful.

Thanks for clearing everything up for us!!! I just hope Shanny is a smart as you r. Wouldn't want him to draft a guy thats doesn't fit his system.....:doh:

[Riggo#44]

I don't know, the Browns seem like the forgotten NFL team (do they ever get primetime games). My only concern would be, with Lebron James leaving, Cleveland has absolutely no star in their city. It's pretty much a non-factor when it comes to sports (DC has both John Wall and Ovechkin and the Redskins are still one of the most profitable and popular teams, much moreso than the Browns) - that was made pretty clear when the media and every publication in Cleveland acted like the city was going to crumble without Lebron. I just hope they don't see RG3 as some kind of savior to the city like they did Lebron and force their hand into drafting him.

What? No mention of Zimmerman, Strasburg, Harper, etc.?? The Nats are so overlooked here...Ok, not trying to hijack the thread!

Someone said it earler -- whoever signs Matt Flynn, or somehow acquires Jed Hoyer, is going to tip their hand. Both of those players will be moved before the draft, if at all. As for Griffin in Cleveland, you'd have to think he would prefer it here -- I mean Cleveland has been under construction since 1868, their chief export is crippling depression and you can buy a house there for the price of a VCR.

[jfriedenthal]

I think he needs another year in college. I don't think he's ready yet.

Fair enough, he is still a better Option Number 2 than Tannehill in my opinion.

[GWinSkins83]

Not a horrible draft at all. I have a hard time listening to anyone's opinion who starts off with "Foles doesn't fit the system". He's an accurate pocket passer and would fit a system better than Griffin would. To say otherwise tells me you don't really understand the system anyway. You'd have to bend this system and change it to make Griffin make sense in it.

No you don't understand the system and you need to google Mike's system. Mike love play making QBs, that can throw on the run(bootlegs and rollouts), and is a good long pass accuracy. So no you need to go back and actually do some homework. Next that draft is horrible and makes no sense. Oh and DeCastro is a mualer type of G. He can be good in the system but you not getting what he does best. Also have any ZBS Coach drafted a first round Guard?

[dfbovey]

Terpskins,

You can type as much as you want. But your argument was that all good teams take their QBs high in the first round of drafts and it's simply not true.

It's also true that the teams that are truly great organizations are much more likely to do what I described than what you're hoping they will do. What have the Patriots done in their history that would indicate they'd give up that much for one player? The Packers? The Saints (other than Ditka losing his mind)? Those are the best teams in football right now and you can even point to teams like the Texans who didn't go the route you say all good teams take.

You don't need to give up the farm to build a winning organization. Period.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Okay, let's look at this situationally. I think you're failing to see the overall big picture by picking out several isolated and extremely unlikely incidents to prove your point.

Fact: Our HC has 11 wins in two seasons.

Fact: Our QB play was poor this season.

Fact: The NFL is a "show me" league. If we have a poor season next year, there's an extremely high chance that we lose our HC and have to start over, regardless of what Shanny is trying to sell us about the five year plan he agreed to with Snyder.

Etc

Great post. I wish there was an upvote feature on this board.

I am in the "older":rolleyes: camp but also up for trading for RG111/Luck. It's just not as simple as that though. We are not the only team needing a QB and Cleveland draft at 4 and they have 2 first round picks this year. If they decide they want him then they will have him and there will be nothing we can do about it.

Obviously not all older fans are going to think the same. But it's been talked about before on this board. A lot of older fans (35+), when it comes to the importance of the QB, refer to the 80's and how Gibbs won. The thing is, nobody else has done what he did (3 SB's with 3 different QB's. At least two of which weren't stars). That blueprint isn't relevant. Period.

where did you hear this? all i've been hearing is that the packers probably will not be able to franchise him even if they wanted to because they dont have the cap room to pay him what it would require (apparently, thats a prerequisite). that, and they are more likely to use the tag on finley.

do you have some inside info? if this is the case, then i say pass.

Seriously? Read this thread. Read other threads. Listen to the pundits. It's being talked about in many places.