ESPN: Robert Griffin III is a Washington Redskin (Merged-- The Everything RG3 Thread- Mocks,News, Rumors etc MET)

[Tsoe]

Point is here.

Your head is way down here.... complete fly by.

I think you need to reread what he is writing instead of jumping straight into quippy remarks. He makes sense

[dfbovey]

I think you need to reread what he is writing instead of jumping straight into quippy remarks. He makes sense

I read what he wrote. And it has nothing to do with the point I made. Which is why I said that the point went over his head.

It was basically like me saying "I'm eating Cheerios" and someone telling me that carrots or orange as a response.

[GWinSkins83]

I read what he wrote. And it has nothing to do with the point I made. Which is why I said that the point went over his head.

It was basically like me saying "I'm eating Cheerios" and someone telling me that carrots or orange as a response.

Naw you read what I wrote but you don't get what I'm saying. I'm we need an Elite QB not just a good one in our system. When you bring up Schaub you leave out that he was just a .500 QB in Kyle's system. You leave out plenity of time where HE FAIL to seal a game or FAIL to drive his team to victory. I love our system when it is balanced and everthing is working. But you just can't bank on the system. You sometimes have to depend on the players. All I'm saying is QB is the most important position and I think we should go for the best QB we can get. If that cost not getting and Elite OLine and Elite defender so be it. Because at the end of the day 49ers are not gameplanning right now for Carl Nicks or What's their MLB name whatever. Or Giants aren't asking themselves how to stop Clay Matthews or BJ Raji. Both those teams are gameplanning how to slow down the QBs. Notice I said slow down. Not stop but slow down those QBs.

[dfbovey]

For one we are not other teams. That's one thing our situation isn't like their were when they needed a QB. I can say Cutler. Is that ok. Or how about a guy you bring up Schaub? How about the Giants? Or how about the Broncos when they got Elway? Are those good enough examples.

Now on to the fit thing. Foles have to learn our offense too. He moslty worked out of the spread and shotgun too. But he is more pro ready and a fit than Rg3? Come on dude tell me in his offense that he has run that is similiar to our offense that makes you think he is a fit. Foles is going to take time just as Rg3 is going to take time. But who is better and is the difference worth a 1st and a 2nd.

Now lets get into these QBs and what it is going to take to win in our division. We have an pretty adverage team. We also go against team that are stacked offensively. We're in a conference that has Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, Eli, Vick, Romo sits to pee, and Cam. All put up numbers not just of the system but they are great Qbs. Your argument is system vs talent. You say Kyle system produces numbers with good not great QBs. But I see no reason to not have an Elite QB in this system. Why settle for good not great but good when you can have great in a great system.

This is my view because a team is only going to go as far as the QB takes them not the system. You and me both could agree that Foles didn't elevate his teammates or make them better right? Well Rg3 has done that with an whole program. And that is what you want out of a QB. Someone that leads an whole team not just the offense and even than I don't think Foles would even be that.

You don't think the whole team rest on the shoulder of the QB? Just ask London Fletcher what he thinks? He tweets he would love to have Luck in B&G. Do you think he cares how we get a Elite QB? Cause he knows that is the only thing stopping us from reaching our potential as a team.

Also I like to bring some stuff up about Rg3. He throws 76% from the pocket.

I agree with Fletcher. You however, seem to think that the only way to acquire one is to trade up and mortgage everything to get RG3. And my argument is that an elite QB can be acquired in any number of ways and it doesn't always come from taking a QB in the top 5 picks of the draft. But you can't seem to concede that point despite all the evidence against what you've said in this thread. And that's the main area where we disagree.

Regarding Foles vs. RG3 the main thing it comes down to for me is cost. I think both will be good starting NFL QBs. RG3 has a higher ceiling but there are things that I see in Foles that he does better than Griffin. Griffin does hold on to the ball longer than he needs to, and this will result in big hits and sacks taken in the NFL. And while he has a high completion percentage, his throws down field are often to wide open WRs. Foles gets rid of the ball quickly, and is accurate on deep and intermediate routes while throwing into traffic and into tighter windows. You can disagree but I feel that because of that, Foles is more NFL ready. RG3 might be a better long term prospect but like I said it comes down to cost.

If you ask me what would I rather do:

1- Use two first rounders and a 2nd rounder to move up and take Griffin

or

2- Trade down in the first round. Use one 2nd rounder to take Foles and have more picks to address other glaring needs

I'd choose option #2

The only way I'd consider option #1 is if the majority of the needs we have are sufficiently met in free agency. To where you could look at a roster and say, I could plug a rookie QB into this and feel good about it.

[Riggo#44]

Well technically, our line is not just our starters, so the fact that our backups suck affects the quality of our line. The last five year would say that expecting our starters to be heathy for the whole year is a bad assumption.

How, exactly, is averaging about 120 yrds/game and giving up about 2 sacks/gm "sucking?"

[dfbovey]

Naw you read what I wrote but you don't get what I'm saying. I'm we need an Elite QB not just a good one in our system. When you bring up Schaub you leave out that he was just a .500 QB in Kyle's system. You leave out plenity of time where HE FAIL to seal a game or FAIL to drive his team to victory. I love our system when it is balanced and everthing is working. But you just can't bank on the system. You sometimes have to depend on the players. All I'm saying is QB is the most important position and I think we should go for the best QB we can get. If that cost not getting and Elite OLine and Elite defender so be it. Because at the end of the day 49ers are not gameplanning right now for Carl Nicks or What's their MLB name whatever. Or Giants aren't asking themselves how to stop Clay Matthews or BJ Raji. Both those teams are gameplanning how to slow down the QBs. Notice I said slow down. Not stop but slow down those QBs.

Schaub was a .500 QB but it wasn't due to anything on his end. He's played well enough to win a lot of games... but that defense, especially early on wasn't very good at all. The offense performed at a high level with Schaub there. Can't put that .500 record on him.

My point was that Kyle Shanahan's offense and train of thought regarding who fits it isn't exactly the same as his father's. Kyle didn't want McNabb. His father did. And McNabb didn't work here in Kyle's offense. It's flawed logic to look at Mike Shanahan's past to determine what will work in Kyle Shanahan's offense. Kyle had success with Schaub which isn't anything like Plummer, Elway or Cutler.

You basically answered back at me, telling me that Mike makes the personnel decisions. Which is obvious, and really had nothing to do with what I was getting at.

You can't always bank on system, that's obvious too. There's a balance though. You need talent, but you also need talent that makes sense. And you also need talent across the board to have success. Wouldn't make sense to draft CBs that are great bump and run, physical man to man players when you run a zone defense for example. Or a 350 lb guard to play in a zone blocking scheme. Same goes for QBs only on a much more complex level.

If they do give up the farm to go after Griffin, he better pan out. It'll take a long time to recover from giving up so much to get him if he doesn't. He better be a fit, and not a square peg.

[texasthunder]

BaylorAthletics Baylor Athletics

RT @RG3forHeisman: Robert Griffin III official announcement on future coming this afternoon. Streamed live on BaylorBears.com #Baylor #RG3

[MrMoore]

Looking at this video from the Browns site they will be adding another QB. Will it be a draft pick (RG3) or will they sign a FA, only time will tell. I have a strong belief that RG3 could fall to us at 6.

Check out the video Mike Holmgren talks about the QBs at the 2:20 mark.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/Browns-Insider-Mike-Holmgren-Part-1/eea2522d-7b63-4964-987b-70f9bf03c488

[skins2323]

Wow alot of bickering in the last few pages back and forth...I like it!!! Now I am by no means an expert or "insider", but I do have family from the Cleveland area who are diehards and from what I understand from them, fans and media in CLE are in agreeance that if RG3 is there at 4, they WILL draft him. BUT, they will not trade both picks to trade up.....from what i understand, the CLE media/fans all believe that 1st round adding a #1 WR and RB and giving McCoy another chance with more weapons would be just as good as trading both picks to get RG3.

This being said, I think the smart money would be to trade up to #2 or #3. #2 makes me feel better bc we KNOW we'll get him, I just dont wanna bank on getting him at 3 then losing out to a mystery team or CLE in case they do decide to go both 1sts. Start by offering our (2012) 1st, 2nd and (2013)1st, and if they dont bite throw in a couple mid rounders that we acquaired via trade (4th this yr) (5th next yr). Thats my 2 cents and I hope I dont crucified for what CLE ppl are saying because I have no "link", as ppl are obsessed with links

[Destructis]

Holmgren is like ShannAllen in that you will never know what he is thinking. He didn't go to the Vinny school of talking about the draft. I don't think RG3 will fall to the 6 spot no matter what. Someone will move up to get him. There are to many teams that need a QB. I hope it's us who moves up.

[HogNose]

I think they either get Kolb or Flynn.

http://nflsoup.com/?p=19546

[cphil006]

Holmgren is like ShannAllen in that you will never know what he is thinking. He didn't go to the Vinny school of talking about the draft. I don't think RG3 will fall to the 6 spot no matter what. Someone will move up to get him. There are to many teams that need a QB. I hope it's us who moves up.

We could always get Colt McCoy from them. I think we'll go after Matt Flynn...

We could trade with St. Luois and get the Number 2, but Cleveland has a better offer with their pick.

[terpskins10]

Terpskins,

You can type as much as you want. But your argument was that all good teams take their QBs high in the first round of drafts and it's simply not true.

It's also true that the teams that are truly great organizations are much more likely to do what I described than what you're hoping they will do. What have the Patriots done in their history that would indicate they'd give up that much for one player? The Packers? The Saints (other than Ditka losing his mind)? Those are the best teams in football right now and you can even point to teams like the Texans who didn't go the route you say all good teams take.

You don't need to give up the farm to build a winning organization. Period.

Go back and read my post. I said given the current climate of the team AND recent NFL history, it's the best option for us at the present time.

You may be right that it isn't necessary to give up the farm to build a winning organization. However, I don't consider three draft picks (with one being used to actually SELECT the player) is giving up the farm by any means, regardless of how high the picks are. I disagree that you ca ONLY use multiple first and second round picks to be a winner and if you don't have them, you're sunk. You need a wealth of quality picks, which can be had in the 3-5 rounds, and you need a FO that is able to draft well later (which our FO has shown to be able to do). Additionally, while you may not NEED to give up a lot to draft a guy, the likelihood that we end up a better team is much higher than if we sat around waiting for a mid round QB or FA to develop into the type of player we need. The teams that have gotten their QB by other means have done so through very unlikely means for us, so the best statistical chance we have at continued, sustained success is finding a blue-chip QB this year. To that end, losing a 1st and 2nd in the process of doing that won't hurt this team in the long run if RG3 can be the guy for 10 years. Especially with what I said about us having filled a lot of those premium 1st round positions already.

Additionally regarding Houston - they gave up two 2nd rounders and swapped first rounders for Schaub. This plan is to swap first rounders and give up a first and second for Griffin. The first rounder is obviously a higher price, but it is a similar situation and Griffin is infinitely more talented than Schaub.

[skinsfanindallas88]

Why does everyone assume that when they say they'll get a QB that it'll be a high draft pick or a big time free agent?

Maybe they'll grab Tannehill with that second first round pick

[SlkyCaramel]

Looking at this video from the Browns site they will be adding another QB. Will it be a draft pick (RG3) or will they sign a FA, only time will tell. I have a strong belief that RG3 could fall to us at 6.

Check out the video Mike Holmgren talks about the QBs at the 2:20 mark.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-center/videos/Browns-Insider-Mike-Holmgren-Part-1/eea2522d-7b63-4964-987b-70f9bf03c488

It's pretty much a given they will get a QB since he said he wants there to be an open competition. The question is, are the Browns willing to trade up and give away picks to get RG3. I don't care that the Browns want a QB, I don't even care if they want to grab a QB in the first round, what I care about is if they are willing to give away multiple picks to try to outbid us for RG3.

I really do not think RG3 is making it beyond the 2nd pick. The only two questions that are relevant to me at this point are these:

Are the Redskins willing to trade up to the #2 pick to get RG3?

Then.....

Are the Browns willing to trade up and outbid us to have the #2 pick to get RG3?

[skinsfan07]

Why does everyone assume that when they say they'll get a QB that it'll be a high draft pick or a big time free agent?

Maybe they'll grab Tannehill with that second first round pick

Very intersting. Much like the Bengals did last season drafting AJ Green first and Andy Dalton second.

Very possible that the Borwns will draft Blackmon/Richardson at 4, and grab Tannehill in the late first because he WILL still be available.

leaving RGIII ours for the taking!!! (evil laugh)

[Destructis]

Don't forget Miami or Seattle. I think both of them also might be inclined to move up if they can.

[terpskins10]

It's pretty much a given they will get a QB since he said he wants there to be an open competition. The question is, are the Browns willing to trade up and give away picks to get RG3. I don't care that the Browns want a QB, I don't even care if they want to grab a QB in the first round, what I care about is if they are willing to give away multiple picks to try to outbid us for RG3.

I really do not think RG3 is making it beyond the 2nd pick. The only two questions that are relevant to me at this point are these:

Are the Redskins willing to trade up to the #2 pick to get RG3?

Then.....

Are the Browns willing to trade up to the #2 pick to get RG3?

Yeah, this is one thing that bugs me. I don't think you ever bring in a first round QB as competition for your current starter, because even if he wins the competition in the short term, he WILL eventually lose his job to the first round QB. It even happened to Brees! If that happened, why would McCoy even want to play that game?

[KCClybun]

What the hell is a more glaring need than quarterback?

Did Rex and John Beck play so poorly that we burned their performance out of our head as soon as the season ended? I keep hearing about these "glaring holes" we have that we just can't afford to end up with six draft picks instead of eight, like free agency doesn't exist (or happen before the draft.) And I'm not trying to say "throw caution to wind and let's blow our wad sign every big name free agent".

People really, really sell Matt Schaub short. He doesn't have the biggest arm, but he has enough arm to execute the downfield passing attack at a high level. He's got not for a ton of first downs, but he can execute that play action bootleg as well as anyone.

People also don't understand what "mobile" really means. Its not about being a runner. Watch Matt Schaub in the pocket when the pressure is there. Watch him slide in the pocket, roll out, keep his eyes down field, step up, side step d-linemen. He's not Michael Vick, but he IS mobile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz5VJwYnr_c

I mean, this is one of the most cool, calm, collected, clutch throws I've EVER see. Guy right in his face, totally cool, not even flustered, keeps his eyes down field, throws a strike for Andre Johnson in the back of the end zone.

Or this throw.

On NFL.com

Schaub does a great job avoiding the rush, side stepping pressure and finding receiver open down field. Which is exactly what Jay Cutler does. Did you see him this year versus the Lions? His offensive line gave him NO help. Period. But he may a ton of plays happen out of friggin' nothing. The same thing Elway did. The same thing that Plummer did. The same thing McNabb had the ability to do, but because he was a lazy, unmotivated bum he never did.

THAT'S the discussion on mobility. There is no "Kyle's system" and "Mike's system". Kyle's system IS Mike's system. There isn't a Kyle kind of quarterback and a Mike kind of quarterback. There is a kind of quarterback that fits this system PERIOD.

[Skinz4Life12]

i was looking at the rams forum and this is what one of their poster's mock draft says we will give up to move up to #2:

"We trade down with Washington to the #6 spot. For our pick we recieve their 1.6, 2.38, 3.70, AND next years First, 3rd, and 4th round picks."

There is no freaking way we give up all those picks to move up the #2

[Jericho]

What the hell is a more glaring need than quarterback?

Did Rex and John Beck play so poorly that we burned their performance out of our head as soon as the season ended? I keep hearing about these "glaring holes" we have that we just can't afford to end up with six draft picks instead of eight, like free agency doesn't exist (or happen before the draft.) And I'm not trying to say "throw caution to wind and let's blow our wad sign every big name free agent".

People really, really sell Matt Schaub short. He doesn't have the biggest arm, but he has enough arm to execute the downfield passing attack at a high level. He's got not for a ton of first downs, but he can execute that play action bootleg as well as anyone.

People also don't understand what "mobile" really means. Its not about being a runner. Watch Matt Schaub in the pocket when the pressure is there. Watch him slide in the pocket, roll out, keep his eyes down field, step up, side step d-linemen. He's not Michael Vick, but he IS mobile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz5VJwYnr_c

I mean, this is one of the most cool, calm, collected, clutch throws I've EVER see. Guy right in his face, totally cool, not even flustered, keeps his eyes down field, throws a strike for Andre Johnson in the back of the end zone.

Or this throw.

On NFL.com

Schaub does a great job avoiding the rush, side stepping pressure and finding receiver open down field. Which is exactly what Jay Cutler does. Did you see him this year versus the Lions? His offensive line gave him NO help. Period. But he may a ton of plays happen out of friggin' nothing. The same thing Elway did. The same thing that Plummer did. The same thing McNabb had the ability to do, but because he was a lazy, unmotivated bum he never did.

THAT'S the discussion on mobility. There is no "Kyle's system" and "Mike's system". Kyle's system IS Mike's system. There isn't a Kyle kind of quarterback and a Mike kind of quarterback. There is a kind of quarterback that fits this system PERIOD.

????

What's this post all about exactly? Matt Schaub is good. How does that affect the Redskins?

[KCClybun]

????

What's this post all about exactly? Matt Schaub is good. How does that affect the Redskins?

It's from before the threads got merged.

[SlkyCaramel]

Don't forget Miami or Seattle. I think both of them also might be inclined to move up if they can.

I think they're too far down. It would require a lot more for them to move up and I think teams would be less inclined to move out of the top ten (or #9 which is the pick I believe Miami has). I could be wrong, I just think there's a big difference between moving from #2 to #6 and moving from #2 to #11. It could happen, I just think it would take Miami and Seattle giving up A LOT.

[GWinSkins83]

I agree with Fletcher. You however, seem to think that the only way to acquire one is to trade up and mortgage everything to get RG3. And my argument is that an elite QB can be acquired in any number of ways and it doesn't always come from taking a QB in the top 5 picks of the draft. But you can't seem to concede that point despite all the evidence against what you've said in this thread. And that's the main area where we disagree.

Regarding Foles vs. RG3 the main thing it comes down to for me is cost. I think both will be good starting NFL QBs. RG3 has a higher ceiling but there are things that I see in Foles that he does better than Griffin. Griffin does hold on to the ball longer than he needs to, and this will result in big hits and sacks taken in the NFL. And while he has a high completion percentage, his throws down field are often to wide open WRs. Foles gets rid of the ball quickly, and is accurate on deep and intermediate routes while throwing into traffic and into tighter windows. You can disagree but I feel that because of that, Foles is more NFL ready. RG3 might be a better long term prospect but like I said it comes down to cost.

If you ask me what would I rather do:

1- Use two first rounders and a 2nd rounder to move up and take Griffin

or

2- Trade down in the first round. Use one 2nd rounder to take Foles and have more picks to address other glaring needs

I'd choose option #2

The only way I'd consider option #1 is if the majority of the needs we have are sufficiently met in free agency. To where you could look at a roster and say, I could plug a rookie QB into this and feel good about it.

You say Foles does alot of stuff better than Rg3 like what? You say Rg3 throws to alot of wide open WRs down field. But I can name one game where Rg3 3 long balls with defenders draped on his WRs and that is probably more than Foles had all year.

[killer938]

Ok, don't post on here much but love reading all your opinions. Living in France I don't get to see much college football so this is where I get my info from. Regarding the Browns though, after Holmgren said he would bring in competition for the QB spot, if that is the case is it just me or is there absolutely no way you trade up or take a QB with the number 4 pick of the draft. If you pick a QB there, that is not competition, that is your starter. So, either he brings in a lower round QB or a FA, he does not get RG3 with that pick.