ESPN: Robert Griffin III is a Washington Redskin (Merged-- The Everything RG3 Thread- Mocks,News, Rumors etc MET)

[dfbovey]

No you don't understand the system and you need to google Mike's system. Mike love play making QBs, that can throw on the run(bootlegs and rollouts), and is a good long pass accuracy. So no you need to go back and actually do some homework. Next that draft is horrible and makes no sense. Oh and DeCastro is a mualer type of G. He can be good in the system but you not getting what he does best. Also have any ZBS Coach drafted a first round Guard?

Matt Shaub isn't what you describe and has had a lot of success in this system. It's you who needs to do their homework.

[TheGreek1973]

Let me give you guys another situation that its not as far fetched as some might think. What if the Colts rate RGIII and Luck kind of the same and work a deal with the Browns. Colts pick Luck and then if RGIII is there at #4 Browns pick RGIII. they trade QBs and the Colts get the Browns second #1 pick. This is a scenario that could play out if Manning is healthy and since RGIII is only 21, he can stay behind the big man for a couple of years to learn like Aaron did in GB.

[GWinSkins83]

Matt Shaub isn't what you describe and has had a lot of success in this system. It's you who needs to do their homework.

You got Schaub and I can go Jake Plummer. Or how about John Elway? Or how about Cutler?

---------- Post added January-11th-2012 at 08:39 AM ----------

Let me give you guys another situation that its not as far fetched as some might think. What if the Colts rate RGIII and Luck kind of the same and work a deal with the Browns. Colts pick Luck and then if RGIII is there at #4 Browns pick RGIII. they trade QBs and the Colts get the Browns second #1 pick. This is a scenario that could play out if Manning is healthy and since RGIII is only 21, he can stay behind the big man for a couple of years to learn like Aaron did in GB.

That's why people are saying trade to the 2nd. You don't want him to get to the Browns' pick.

[dfbovey]

You got Schaub and I can go Jake Plummer. Or how about John Elway? Or how about Cutler?

What does Plummer, Elway or Culter mean really? The statement was that Foles doesn't fit the offense. Foles is a lot like Matt Schaub who supposedly doesn't fit the offense according to you. It's like you're saying something and forgetting that you said it.

Kyle Shanahan ran this offense in Houston and it was a top tier offense without Elway, Plummer or Cutler. It was a top tier offense with a QB type what you don't seem to think fits the system.

[ArmchairRedskin]

The official announcement from Griffin is supposed to come today according to 254 Sports

[HogNose]

Lets just hope the Browns get Kevin Kolb if they don't want Flynn. :thumbsup:

Report: Browns May Have Interest In Kevin Kolb

[Riggo#44]

We still have one of the worst O-lines in football

Posts like this drive me crazy. Williams missed 6 games, Lichtensteiger missed 11. We had 3 backups playing just about every week. Even with that, the line play vastly improved through out the season. The running game was clicking in the final weeks. And, while the Skins gave up 41 sacks (21st in the league), 10 of those came against a Buffalo (8-9 of those were the fault of Beck, not the line. Not to mention Williams was out that game too.) Save for the Buffalo disaster -- the Skins gave up 31 sacks in 15 games. Just over 2 a game. That pace would rank them about 9th or 10th in the league for sacks surrendered.

That's far from one of the worst lines in football.

[SonOfWashington]

I know RG3 has always maintained that he's happy whereever he goes, but you have to think that at some point, he starts putting signals out as to where he'd PREFER to go? Or at least he'd probably get his agents to do that for him....

So the question is: I know we're all homers here with burgundy-and-gold tinted glasses, but he's got to be 10x more amped about the prospect of playing in DC (where he could be coached by Shanny, who coached his childhood idol, Elway; where he could rub shoulders with Barack; where he'd probably meet nothing but lawyers, judges, law professors, you name it, etc.) in a high-profile, historic franchise where he would be in the national spotlight with marquee games against the Giants, Cowboys and Eagles, right? ... Or am I missing something?

I mean, I wouldn't want to live in Cleveland, and where I live now is almost too close.

[Riggo#44]

I mean, I wouldn't want to live in Cleveland, and where I live now is almost too close.

Google "Cleveland Tourism Video" that says all you need to know about Cleveland...

[GWinSkins83]

What does Plummer, Elway or Culter mean really? The statement was that Foles doesn't fit the offense. Foles is a lot like Matt Schaub who supposedly doesn't fit the offense according to you. It's like you're saying something and forgetting that you said it.

Kyle Shanahan ran this offense in Houston and it was a top tier offense without Elway, Plummer or Cutler. It was a top tier offense with a QB type what you don't seem to think fits the system.

So Foles fit better than Rg3 in Mike's system? And didn't you say Rg3 doesn't fit this system? Have you seen Foles play too. He is very slow and performing a bootleg something you don't want to happen in the NFL.

Also let's put this in the bud. Who is the best player on Saints, Patriots, Packers, and Even the Giants? The QB is and that is the problem with your argument. You want to win but you want to settle for a QB. Anyone better than Rex is good but its not going to the Superbowl. Isn't that what the goal is? You put Foles up against Rg3 and say both reach their potential and its not even close who is the better player.

Kyle ran an offense in Houston that put up numbers yes. But when it came down to winning drives or the game on the line they fell short. Plan and simple as that. I remember that was their problem never able to finish the deal. Rg3 is clutch and finishes alot of games and that is something we need on this team.

[dfbovey]

So Foles fit better than Rg3 in Mike's system? And didn't you say Rg3 doesn't his system? Have you seen Foles play too. He is very slow and performing a bootleg something you don't want to happen in the NFL.

Also let's put this in the bud. Who is the best player on Saints, Patriots, Packers, and Even the Giants? The QB is and that is the problem with your argument. You want to win but you want to settle for a QB. Anyone better than Rex is good but its not going to the Superbowl. Isn't that what the goal is? You put Foles up against Rg3 and say both reach their potential and its not even close who is the better player.

Kyle ran an offense in Houston that put up numbers yes. But when it came down to winning drives or the game on the line they fell short. Plan and simple as that. I remember that was their problem never able to finish the deal. Rg3 is clutch and finishes alot of games and that is something we need on this team.

Yup, I've seen Foles play and haven't heard an explanation from you as to why he's not a fit at all for this system. I think he's one of the more NFL ready QBs in this draft. And comparable to Schaub in my opinion. But according to you, he flat out wouldn't be a fit for Kyle Shanahan's offense.

I like RG3. I think he could be a fit in this offense but not initially. And the question becomes how willing would the Shanahans be how much bend do the they have? So far, they have been very stringent on what they expect out of the position. Will they cater to a QB that isn't traditional? Will they change their offense to use his unique skills? I don't know that they will. And my main problem is giving up 3 high draft picks for one player when we have a lot of holes to fill.

There is no problem with my argument, "bud". I'm not arguing the importance of the QB position. I'm arguing that you don't have to give up the farm to find a good one, even a Superbowl caliber one. Your argument was that any good team would trade up for RG3 and I could show you example after example how the elite front offices don't do what you describe at all to find their QB. I'd be all ears if you'd just explain how you observed and came to the conclusion that taking a QB high is the way all good teams do it. When the evidence doesn't support your claim at all.

Bottom line is that you were wrong and at this point you're just spinning your wheels.

[mistertim]

So Foles fit better than Rg3 in Mike's system?

Why do you keep talking about Mike's system? Unless something has changed very recently, Kyle Shanahan is the OC here. Not saying he won't like or does't like Griffin. But you seem obsessed with this "fits Mike's system" thing when Mike is not the OC. He has said that he is involved in game planning, etc but that Kyle is the one who calls the plays and decides how the offense runs.

[dfbovey]

Why do you keep talking about Mike's system? Unless something has changed very recently, Kyle Shanahan is the OC here. Not saying he won't like or does't like Griffin. But you seem obsessed with this "fits Mike's system" thing when Mike is not the OC. He has said that he is involved in game planning, etc but that Kyle is the one who calls the plays and decides how the offense runs.

Absolutely correct. The two didn't exactly agree on Donovan McNabb for example.

[grego]

Seriously? Read this thread. Read other threads. Listen to the pundits. It's being talked about in many places.

seriously.

i spend hours browsing this forum every day. all i've heard is the packers possible not having the room and them franchising finley. now, 2 weeks ago, franchising flynn was the talk, for about a day, til these other nuggets were brought up about how it may not be feasable.

do the packers even have the cap room?

[GWinSkins83]

Why do you keep talking about Mike's system? Unless something has changed very recently, Kyle Shanahan is the OC here. Not saying he won't like or does't like Griffin. But you seem obsessed with this "fits Mike's system" thing when Mike is not the OC. He has said that he is involved in game planning, etc but that Kyle is the one who calls the plays and decides how the offense runs.

When Mike says he is involve in the game planning means he decides the plan. The plan is the plays bruh. Kyle runs what Mike has signed off on. If you think Kyle draws up all the plays and makes the decision which way this team is going to play you are on crack. Plan and simple as that. Would you being a Head Coach and Offensive mind let your son control your team and you just sit by like you are the OC. Come on man use your head Kyle is the OC so yes he has some input but he doesn't have final say.

[DiscoBob]

Posts like this drive me crazy. Williams missed 6 games, Lichtensteiger missed 11. We had 3 backups playing just about every week. Even with that, the line play vastly improved through out the season. The running game was clicking in the final weeks. And, while the Skins gave up 41 sacks (21st in the league), 10 of those came against a Buffalo (8-9 of those were the fault of Beck, not the line. Not to mention Williams was out that game too.) Save for the Buffalo disaster -- the Skins gave up 31 sacks in 15 games. Just over 2 a game. That pace would rank them about 9th or 10th in the league for sacks surrendered.

That's far from one of the worst lines in football.

Well technically, our line is not just our starters, so the fact that our backups suck affects the quality of our line. The last five year would say that expecting our starters to be heathy for the whole year is a bad assumption.

[GWinSkins83]

Absolutely correct. The two didn't exactly agree on Donovan McNabb for example.

Yet McNabb was on the team and made it all the way to the 12th game of the season till Mike made the decision to sit McNabb. Oh and Kyle didn't stop Mike to say he is going to try and find a Sam Braford or McNabb type of QB even after his son wasn't happy with McNabb.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

seriously.

i spend hours browsing this forum every day. all i've heard is the packers possible not having the room and them franchising finley. now, 2 weeks ago, franchising flynn was the talk, for about a day, til these other nuggets were brought up about how it may not be feasable.

do the packers even have the cap room?

Franchising him doesn't mean they're signing him. It wouldn't count against their cap. It would just mean they control the rights to him, and they would be able to trade that control to another team. Then it would be up to his new team to actually sign him to a contract.

[grego]

gocalb-

heres an article on the situation- i had forgotten that teams cant franchise a player with the intention of trading him. NE was able to do it with cassel because brady was injured.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/flynn-departure-may-not-aid-packers-k43ld06-136557403.html

So once the Packers tag Flynn, that $14 million counts against their salary cap. Flynn would automatically become the highest-paid player on the team in terms of annual salary.

NFL teams are prohibited from trading franchise players. In fact, the rules say you may not franchise a player with the intent to sign him to a contract and then trade him. However, this rule has been broken before and the NFL tends to look the other way.

---------- Post added January-11th-2012 at 10:28 AM ----------

Franchising him doesn't mean they're signing him. It wouldn't count against their cap..

i think you might be wrong about that. from the article-

In exchange for being tagged, Flynn would receive a one-year deal worth the average of the last five franchise tag numbers at his position. Last year, the franchise number for quarterbacks was around $14 million, and it's likely to be higher this year.

So once the Packers tag Flynn, that $14 million counts against their salary cap. Flynn would automatically become the highest-paid player on the team in terms of annual salary.

[dfbovey]

Yet McNabb was on the team and made it all the way to the 12th game of the season till Mike made the decision to sit McNabb. Oh and Kyle didn't stop Mike to say he is going to try and find a Sam Braford or McNabb type of QB even after his son wasn't happy with McNabb.

Yup, and in the end, McNabb didn't work out in Kyle's offense. Right?

Right.

[GWinSkins83]

Yup, and in the end, McNabb didn't work out in Kyle's offense. Right?

Right.

McNabb didn't work. Yet Mike said he would look for a McNabb type of QB right?

Right!

[dfbovey]

Franchising him doesn't mean they're signing him. It wouldn't count against their cap. It would just mean they control the rights to him, and they would be able to trade that control to another team. Then it would be up to his new team to actually sign him to a contract.

Yes it does count against the cap when you franchise tag him. You have to have the space under the cap to do it.

Remember when we did this to Bailey? We had to trade him by a certain date or be forced to either cut him loose or release several other players to be able to fit the move to tag him under the cap. They traded him for Portis prior to the deadline.

---------- Post added January-11th-2012 at 03:35 PM ----------

McNabb didn't work. Yet Mike said he would look for a McNabb type of QB right?

Right!

Point is here.

Your head is way down here.... complete fly by.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

gocalb-

In exchange for being tagged, Flynn would receive a one-year deal worth the average of the last five franchise tag numbers at his position. Last year, the franchise number for quarterbacks was around $14 million, and it's likely to be higher this year.

So once the Packers tag Flynn, that $14 million counts against their salary cap. Flynn would automatically become the highest-paid player on the team in terms of annual salary.

I don't think that's right. He still has to sign the franchise one year tender. It doesn't automatically go into effect. And I think teams normally try to trade them (i.e. their rights) before that happens. I can't imagine the Patriots were paying both Brady and Cassell the year they franchised him and traded him to the Chiefs.

Ugh, this **** is making my head hurt. Trying to track down some more articles.

[AKM311]

I don't think that's right. He still has to sign the franchise one year tender. It doesn't automatically go into effect. And I think teams normally try to trade them (i.e. their rights) before that happens. I can't imagine the Patriots were paying both Brady and Cassell the year they franchised him and traded him to the Chiefs.

Ugh, this **** is making my head hurt. Trying to track down some more articles.

Bro, when you tender a player or franchise a player, the amount that the tag is worth counts against the cap. It becomes guarentueed once the player signs. Otherwise it is a non-guarentueed contract that STILL counts against the cap.

People don't sign it (all positions outside of QB) because a long term contract would get them more guarentueed more money and then they are obligated to show up for TC and all practices without being penalized. If they don't sign it, they are not obligated to anything and can hold out.

EDIT...Also as far as your Brady and Cassel situation. While the contract is guarentueed for the year, it is not a SB so is not a lump some payment. Trading a player (Cassel) who has signed the tender doesn't hurt the cap. It just gets transferred to the team trading for said player.

[GWinSkins83]

Yup, I've seen Foles play and haven't heard an explanation from you as to why he's not a fit at all for this system. I think he's one of the more NFL ready QBs in this draft. And comparable to Schaub in my opinion. But according to you, he flat out wouldn't be a fit for Kyle Shanahan's offense.

I like RG3. I think he could be a fit in this offense but not initially. And the question becomes how willing would the Shanahans be how much bend do the they have? So far, they have been very stringent on what they expect out of the position. Will they cater to a QB that isn't traditional? Will they change their offense to use his unique skills? I don't know that they will. And my main problem is giving up 3 high draft picks for one player when we have a lot of holes to fill.

There is no problem with my argument, "bud". I'm not arguing the importance of the QB position. I'm arguing that you don't have to give up the farm to find a good one, even a Superbowl caliber one. Your argument was that any good team would trade up for RG3 and I could show you example after example how the elite front offices don't do what you describe at all to find their QB. I'd be all ears if you'd just explain how you observed and came to the conclusion that taking a QB high is the way all good teams do it. When the evidence doesn't support your claim at all.

Bottom line is that you were wrong and at this point you're just spinning your wheels.

For one we are not other teams. That's one thing our situation isn't like their were when they needed a QB. I can say Cutler. Is that ok. Or how about a guy you bring up Schaub? How about the Giants? Or how about the Broncos when they got Elway? Are those good enough examples.

Now on to the fit thing. Foles have to learn our offense too. He moslty worked out of the spread and shotgun too. But he is more pro ready and a fit than Rg3? Come on dude tell me in his offense that he has run that is similiar to our offense that makes you think he is a fit. Foles is going to take time just as Rg3 is going to take time. But who is better and is the difference worth a 1st and a 2nd.

Now lets get into these QBs and what it is going to take to win in our division. We have an pretty adverage team. We also go against team that are stacked offensively. We're in a conference that has Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, Eli, Vick, Romo sits to pee, and Cam. All put up numbers not just of the system but they are great Qbs. Your argument is system vs talent. You say Kyle system produces numbers with good not great QBs. But I see no reason to not have an Elite QB in this system. Why settle for good not great but good when you can have great in a great system.

This is my view because a team is only going to go as far as the QB takes them not the system. You and me both could agree that Foles didn't elevate his teammates or make them better right? Well Rg3 has done that with an whole program. And that is what you want out of a QB. Someone that leads an whole team not just the offense and even than I don't think Foles would even be that.

You don't think the whole team rest on the shoulder of the QB? Just ask London Fletcher what he thinks? He tweets he would love to have Luck in B&G. Do you think he cares how we get a Elite QB? Cause he knows that is the only thing stopping us from reaching our potential as a team.

Also I like to bring some stuff up about Rg3. He throws 76% from the pocket.