GSF Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 So I need some feedback here please. My oldest is going to be 14 in October, and she's in 8th grade. She is a straight A student that has never gotten anything lower than an A in school. She currently has a 98 average and finished last school year with the second highest GPA in the school, and it's a big school. She also starts on the soccer and volleyball teams, runs track, and is in the choir. She just got her scores back on the CRCTs, and she aced them, getting perfect score on 3 of the 5 subjects and missing a total of 3 questions on the other 2 subjects. The kid is smart as hell and extremely self motivated. My wife and I are very proud. So yesterday 1 of my daughter's friend's mom told me that our daughters along with another friend had been accused of cheating by their social studies teacher. All 3 of the girls are in the gifted program and get good grades. Another student that sits behind my daughter and her friend was copying answers off of our girls, and the teacher thought our girls were intentionally helping the girl to cheat. They were not, this I am absolutely sure of. The girls of course told the teacher that they had not been cheating, but he insisted they had and sent an email to all of their other teachers and school coaches announcing that he had caught them cheating. he also said that the girls had cheated before in his home room period when they had worked on homework together. Now the girls are infamous in the school as the gifted girls that got caught cheating. Most of their other teachers do not believe they could have cheated, but 1 other has joined in the crusade, and students ask them why they cheated all day. Needless to say they're mad and humiliated. I did some asking around with some other parents I know, and this is not the first time this teacher has done this sort of thing. He is known to be a very mean spirited person, who for some reason is especially nasty with gifted students. Am I wrong to think this has been handled completely unproffesionally and inappropriately? It seems if the school really thought the girls had cheated they would contact the parents, which they did not. My daughter's friend's dad called the school on friday, but the principal would not speak with him about it. I have emailed in requesting a meeting with the principal, and hope to get a response tomorrow. My daughter didn't tell me, because she didn't want to me get angry with the school, but now that I know she wants me to help her clear her name. I want the teacher to apologize to the girls, and send out a follow up email to the other teachers exhonorating the girls. BTW, the girl that got caught cheating got a verbal warning, and her other teachers or parents were not contacted which I find especially strange. Thanks for reading this, and I appreciate any feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 It's hard to believe a student when they say they didn't cheat. Remember, he's not you. He doesn't see your daughter in the same way you do every day. What he saw made him believe that there was cheating occuring. I think there are better ways to handle the situation with students who are generally not a behavior issue, but your daughter's accolades have no bearing on the situation. Gifted students cheat, poor students cheat and mediocre students cheat. There are also gifted students who don't cheat, poor students who don't cheat and mediocre students who don't cheat. You are in no position to demand anything, such as an apology. You are, however, in a situation to calmly talk to the teacher and see his side of the story. Your daughter in all likelyhood is telling the truth, but the first step shouldn't be to go to the principal. The first step is the teacher. Then you follow up with the principal and so on and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Ok, I work as a substitute teacher in Nowhere, Pennsylvania so I'll give you what insight I can offer, knowing that each school district is different. But when he emailed all the other teachers before telling the principal and meeting with you about it, he crossed a line. And if you can prove that, you might be able bring up a grievance about it to the school board. And if you can somehow prove that your kid didn't intentionally let others cheat off her, then you should demand that the teacher publicly apologize to them in front of the whole school, since he made sure the whole school heard about it. So while I'm not sure what you can do about it without solid proof, from your side of the story it sounds like he did indeed act inappropriate and unprofessional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Ok, I work as a substitute teacher in Nowhere, Pennsylvania so I'll give you what insight I can offer, knowing that each school district is different. But when he emailed all the other teachers before telling the principal and meeting with you about it, he crossed a line. And if you can prove that, you might be able bring up a grievance about it to the school board. And if you can somehow prove that your kid didn't intentionally let others cheat off her, then you should demand that the teacher publicly apologize to them in front of the whole school, since he made sure the whole school heard about it.So while I'm not sure what you can do about it without solid proof, from your side of the story it sounds like he did indeed act inappropriate and unprofessional. I do agree with the aspect that he handled unprofessionally. But you still need to speak with him first. Emailing the other teachers about it is wrong without principal knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reic Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I work in a middle school, so I'm around this stuff daily. Go to the teacher first, the principal won't be able to deal with it, as the principal is not the one accusing your child as cheating.It is in my experience that kids that age take everything personally anyway, and never believe they are in the wrong, regardless of their intelligence and the majority of the time, the teachers word goes because of those reasons. Talk to the teacher, ask why he believes your child was cheating, and have him provide proof. Without proof it is only opinion, and that can't hold up anyway. Besides, to prove cheating its not about the number of the same correct answers, its once there is a pattern of the same wrong answers. Just don't be one of those parents that can never believe your child is never in the wrong either. I'm sure you aren't but I hear that crap daily from parents and it doesn't help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Get the facts. Secondhand from the mother of one of your kids friends is not reliable. Kids cheat all the time. Even 'gifted' ones. I did. :evilg: Even if they did it seems a little strange that a teacher would contact others about it. Again, get the facts of what really happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Clarify something for me. - You say that this teacher emailed other teachers. How did you come to find out the contents of this internal email? Is there any reason to suspect it was intended to be made public? - What do you mean when you say another teacher has joined the crusade? - What explanation was given by the girls that were copied from as to how the girl behind them got a clear view of their work so that she could copy it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Get the facts. Secondhand from the mother of one of your kids friends is not reliable.Kids cheat all the time. Even 'gifted' ones. I did. :evilg: Even if they did it seems a little strange that a teacher would contact others about it. Again, get the facts of what really happened. Heck, I gave a kid that I wasn't even particularly good friends w/ (and I wasn't scared of) my algebra homework every day on the bus so he could he how I worked a "few" problems. Good students cheat. If he told other teachers, then I'd have a problem w/ it, but you need to talk to the teacher, and your kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 All reasons that he needs to speak with the teacher and not the principal. And demanding things is not a good start. That just makes you "that parent" to the staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngestson Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I teach 8th grade so I have plenty of experience with the age. If the teacher did as you say, and emailed all the kid's teachers telling accusing the kids of cheating it would certainly be unprofessional, but as far as I know not illegal. It depends on the state and sometimes the district. As mentioned above, go to the teacher first not the administration. Try to be reasonable and rational (I know this may sound like I'm being insulting but I swear I'm not. Teachers deal with so many parents who are completely off the hook they can often be touchy) when you speak to them. In addition, discuss the event with your child very very carefully. I am in no why accusing them of not telling the truth, or being cheaters, or anything really other than being 13 years old. Teenagers in general and middle school kids in particularly have a world view that tends to be very... flexible. You may find that the whole situation was exactly what was related to you, but you may also find the reality is less clear cut. Just be sure to keep a somewhat open mind. Nobody expects you not to be on your child's side, but remember there are other people's observations here. Good luck and congratulations on your student's accomplishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney B Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Some students cheat, absolutely. But just as there are some good teachers out there, there are also some bad ones. We have no way of knowing the whole story, so any good advice should apply to both perspectives equally. My advice to you, if you can't get your daughter out of that teacher's class, is to lay low and let it all blow over. A teacher has the power to make your daughter's year a miserable one, and if he's a bad one, (which we suspect from the alleged emails) he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backpack3r Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Maaaan....I cheated so much in highschool lol I can proudly say, that out of my 4 years in highschool, i NEVER studied. Not once, not for anything, test, quiz SATs whatever. I cheated and winged my way through and now im ballin on society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Thanks for all replies and advice. I'll try to clarify a few things: I was not going to demand an apology or anything else. i said I want the teacher to apologize as I think he handled the completely wrong. I found out about the email, because several of their other teachers brought the issue up in class. When 1 teacher brought it up, another student that was in both classes blurted out who it was. By the end of the day, the whole school was talking about it. The teacher assumed they were helping the girl to cheat because one of them had leaned back in her chair to stretch, and the other had her papers spread out on her desk. I really don't have a problem with what he thought. Even the girls agreed they could see why he thought what he thought. My problem was how he handled it. I know the girls were not cheating. I am not one of these parents that think their kids can do no wrong. She has gotten in trouble before for other things as have my other 2 kids. I'm pretty tough on them about these things. Cheating is just not in this kid's make up. She has become very upset in the past when other kids she knows have cheated, and on top of that the girls can't stand the girl that was copying off of them. I questioned my daughter very thoroughly about this as did the other girls' parents. My kids aren't good liars. No way she could maintain this lie to me and her mother, especially about something this serious. I probably will follow Kdawg's advice and go to the teacher first, though I'm told by other parents that won't get me anywhere. I may take it to the school board if I don't feel the issue is resolved, though I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. My daughter has a 99 in the class and has not been penalized in any way over this. She and the other girls are just very humiliated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 If the teacher emailed other teachers about the cheating issue without contacting the parents first, I believe that was handled completely unprofessionally. If she really cheated as the teacher said, why is it not affecting her grade? It seems to me if he was serious about her cheating, he would make sure there were serious repercussions and parents would be notified. I don't know, I've had my fair share of mean-spirited teachers in my life (one who told me in 8th grade that I would amount to nothing in life, lol)...so I'm inclined to say screw this teacher if he handled the situation in the way you've described. That being said, you need to address this with the source first. If you don't get anywhere with him, then you move up the chain...but at least you can say you started in the right place. Right now you seem to be getting everything secondhand. So, I would start out by asking him to clarify the situation, ask him ask him why he made that claim, what his evidence is, what his plan to punish the girls is, why you heard this from a kid's mother instead of him, if he sent out an email to teachers, why he sent out an email to teachers and did not notify you, and how he thinks you all should proceed from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 My advice, as someone who will be entering the field soon enough and has dealt with teachers most of his life, is to get a meeting with the principal ASAP. You need to have the whole cheating thing completely removed from your daughter's record. She sounds like she'll be in line for some great colleges, and any negative reports from high school put her at a disadvantage to get into a good, competitive college. The teacher accused them of it, but if he had anything to go off other than what he/she thought they saw, then your daughter would be in a lot more trouble right now, likely facing suspension. Since that didn't happen, you have the advantage IMO. If your daughter or her friends have any horror stories about that teacher, use them to your advantage. I would never conduct myself the way that teacher did. What he/she should have done was contact the principle and arrange a meeting between them and the accused students and their parents. What that teacher did seems like they wanted to catch the girls cheating. The best defense is the truth. First off, find out if the girl looking off their papers has a history of cheating. If she does then that should settle the matter on its own. Also, point out the girls shouldn't be penalized for being smart and having cheaters target their papers. Looking at others papers is the number 1 way to cheat. Also, I'd question why the teacher is giving everyone the same copy of the test, instead of switching the questions around and passing out 2 different tests (a tactic good teachers use to discourage cheating). Definitely ask why, if the teacher had caught them cheating on their homework in homeroom (collaboration on homework isn't cheating IMO), you were never informed of it. And make sure to really drive home the humiliation part. The principal, if he/she is a good one, should feel ashamed that two of their best students (gt kids are highly valued in public school systems of course) who also play sports (again highly valued) have been humiliated due to a teacher's unprofessional and seemingly vindictive demeanor all because of a very faulty accusation. I mean, they don't like the girl, so unless it can be proven that they are good friends with the girl who did cheat, then there's no motive. And I'd also point out that you weren't contacted by this teacher over this incident either, drive home the point about the teacher possibly screwing with your daughter's future collegiate career over very questionable evidence (schools value their kids going to good colleges, so they won't like that). This issue is definitely worth it. This won't be the last time this teacher goes after your daughter, and now he's gotten another teacher to join in. The person obviously doesn't like your daughter, for whatever reason, so I would recommend if you don't accomplish anything else in the meeting that you get your daughter out of that class and any other classes she has with either teacher, otherwise there will be future problems, especially with the mutual resentment between your daughter and the teacher building up each and every class the rest of the school year. Oh, and even if it's not your thing, you have to not only be concise with your arguments and conduct yourself respectfully, but you also have to be aggressive. Hope some of this helps, good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 If that was me, I would give an unannounced exam on the spot to each student independently. That should ferret out the cheater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21cents Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Nothing wrong with cheating. In fact if your cheating and getting away with it that only shows how smart you are. Why settle for the long road when you can take shortcuts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 That's BS. I think the best defense is a good offense. There should be some type of civil lawsuit that can be filed against the teacher. What type of policy does the school have for cheating? Unless the principal or school has done a thorough investigation, it seems like there is some sort of right that has been violated or something wrong. Even if there's only a fingernail of justification to file a lawsuit I would do it (perhaps you start out with some type of grievance through the school and then board or something). It already seems like this false allegation has caused some damage... IANAL, just my 2 cents... its better to fight this not in the school's backyard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Nothing wrong with cheating. In fact if your cheating and getting away with it that only shows how smart you are. Why settle for the long road when you can take shortcuts? Are you trolling or do you really believe this tripe you posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21cents Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Are you trolling or do you really believe this tripe you posted? Iam being serious. :/ I never really got a chance to cheat on tests but when it comes to homework or lab work thats different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyMista Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I have been a teacher for 12 years. You absolutely need to take this as far as you can. I am sick and tired of a few bad teachers making us all look bad. We need to rid the profession of them if we are ever to be treated as true professionals. If events did occur as you described, his handling of the situation was completely unacceptable. He should have dealt with the situation by conferring with your daughter, you, and/or administration. It is inappropriate that other teachers and students even know about it, especially since there was no official action. It will be good for your daughter to see that when you believe her you will fight for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royallypwned Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I have no idea what the CRCTs are. lol I substitute teach occasionally at my old high school, but am not a full-time teacher. It's a private school, so I'm used to heavy punishments. A junior girl was caught for plagiarism at the school last May, just before the end of the school year. She was one of the top students in her class. Very nice; very bright. She was kicked out of school completely and had to transfer. But we take our honor code very seriously. The first week of every school year, during our chapel service, there is an Honor Code ceremony. All students in the school march to the front in a line and each sign their name under the honor code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I feel like i'm still hearing 60% of the problem. Question: So three students were 'allegedly" cheating, but your childs name was the only one mentioned... the child doing the actual cheating was not? Teachers were bringing this up all day at school with an anonymous source yelling your childs name? (needs more work, sounds like an AP article). You have a copy of the email that says what you think it says, or could it be to other teachers asking them what to do? As you are here, before you talk to this teacher? Is it an email that states he believes these 3 gifted students were cheating, how do i deal with this? or did it say, These three gifted? children were cheating! your biased, just acknowlege that and talk to the teacher.. so many ways to communicate and we just don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 If your child wasn't disciplined for cheating it shouldn't be spread around the school by a teacher that she's a cheater like some middle-school gossip. Either she did it or she didn't. I would probably want my kid transfered out of the class because that teacher's going to be a problem and the year just started. My wife would probably want to carpet-bomb the school (figuratively, of course.) We'd probably meet somewhere in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLredskin Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Would you let it slide if it was Cameron Diaz teaching your daughter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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