People say- "I am Christian"; so?

[Corcaigh]

And yet you believe nothing, it's interesting really, because if in any other context 92% of people agreed on something and only 8% disagreed we'd let the statistics speak for themselves, but here you want to work around them.

92% agree on "something". Really? So your beliefs are similar enough to, say, Osama Bin Laden, that you would count him as your spiritual brethren for the sake of a stupid internet argument? Congratulations. :pfft:

Yeah, the ONLY thing I do is stand up front making words...you're right dude you SOOOO got me, I mean my faith doesn't call me to works of love at all, and this whole "love your neighbor as yourself" thing...pffft...that's just a slogan, we don't expect anyone to actually do that crap. Man, you so nailed me.

Well your point in this thread has been about your arrogant knowledge of what it takes to be saved. And sure it's a straw man of how many Christians behave. Think of the good works you could be doing if you weren't engaged in all the pointless, dumb arguments on a football message board like this one.

[brettstr]

Yep.

Proverbs 7

My son, keep my words

and store up my commands within you.

2 Keep my commands and you will live;

guard my teachings as the apple of your eye.

3 Bind them on your fingers;

write them on the tablet of your heart.

And this is based on.......?

There has never ever been a passage that says read My Bible, read your Bible, My words to You are not a bible or Passage they are words to YOU. Not the world.

Can One really not identify with God speaking directly to YOU? Keeping my Words May actually be directed at That individual.

Have You ever been told to Kill your son? Pehaps not and not that you would Ever be obidient and do it.

My basis for asking you the question is to get you to open your mind to understanding. There were many flawed characteristics of the individuals you quote. They were wrtitten to show you Man or Human is fallable in all that they do.

So trust in your individual realtionship with God, Not the One Human or man tries to give to you and force you to do. And don't try to force others to believe in what you do, you might just be leading helpless sheep astray.

And you know the passage about the mill stone right?

[Tweedr01]

Well your point in this thread has been about your arrogant knowledge of what it takes to be saved. And sure it's a straw man of how many Christians behave. Think of the good works you could be doing if you weren't engaged in all the pointless, dumb arguments on a football message board like this one.

so people have questions, or are misinformed, he answers the questions and corrects the incorrect statements....and it's arrogance? as he pointed out before, if this was any other conversation it would have been an "ahhhhh, I understand what you are saying", but because it makes you uncomfortable you take subtle jabs at Christianity.

I would give you the whole pot meet kettle, but that would require ASF to have actually been arrogant. not all good works are done in the streets, or overseas. they can be found right in your backyard or on a football message board, why not? seems like he's done a good job answering a TON of questions or incorrect interpretations.

[Corcaigh]

so people have questions, or are misinformed, he answers the questions and corrects the incorrect statements....and it's arrogance?

No, no no. The "arrogance" is his claim that he knows something that other religions don't and it's as correct as the actual usable knowledge of a paramedic, even though he knows he can't prove it. He knows that only his product will save you. He is certain that many of the other posters on this message board are 'not saved' ... Burgold, Skinshokiefan and many others 'cause they bought the wrong product. That's what we mean by arrogance.

[chipwhich]

No, no no. The "arrogance" is his claim that he knows something that other religions don't and it's as correct as the actual usable knowledge of a paramedic, even though he knows he can't prove it. He knows that only his product will save you. He is certain that many of the other posters on this message board are 'not saved' ... Burgold, Skinshokiefan and many others 'cause they bought the wrong product. That's what we mean by arrogance.

and based off the concept of a virgin birth.

[AsburySkinsFan]

There has never ever been a passage that says read My Bible, read your Bible, My words to You are not a bible or Passage they are words to YOU. Not the world.

There is weak, and then there is this weak. We call it the Bible God called it the Word that is sharper than a double edge sword. Have fun building that strawman, when you're ready I'll come over and help you kick it down.

Can One really not identify with God speaking directly to YOU? Keeping my Words May actually be directed at That individual.

Sure you can identify with God speaking directly to you, but then if you allow that God has spoken directly to you then you must also allow that God is speaking directly to others and if the God that is speaking is to be trusted then what is being said should tend to agree with the other things that are said. In that we agree, and we Christians put all those writings in one nice handy book.

Have You ever been told to Kill your son? Pehaps not and not that you would Ever be obedient and do it.

Nope, and that was a one time deal in a culture where child sacrifice was not out of the norm, what's more is that Abraham was told to do that before the Law was ever given, and the Law specifically forbids child sacrifice, as such God never had any intention of allowing Abraham to go through with it which is why He supplied the ram.

My basis for asking you the question is to get you to open your mind to understanding. There were many flawed characteristics of the individuals you quote. They were written to show you Man or Human is fallible in all that they do.

You're exactly right, and the fact that man is fallible is the whole reason that God sent His son so that man might be redeemed by faith.

So trust in your individual relationship with God, Not the One Human or man tries to give to you and force you to do. And don't try to force others to believe in what you do, you might just be leading helpless sheep astray.

And you know the passage about the mill stone right?

So you want to quote Jesus' words to me in an effort to convince me to NOT proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ, even though Jesus himself tells us to go and proclaim his good news to all the nations? Hmmmm, seems as if you just want to cherry pick Jesus' sayings for your own purposes.

[Burgold]

I think there is a certain degree of arrogance that's natural and almost mandatory the moment you choose a side. Be it Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Atheist, or whatever. Almost all believe our traditions are best... otherwise, we would adapt them or renounce them. Personally, I try to be respectful of all and believe that you can find truth from any number of perspectives and more importantly that different perspectives offer different valid truths.

But let's be honest, a certain degree of arrogance is a fundamental part of humanity whether its my football team is better than yours, my religion is better than yours, my politics is better than yours... humanity is always seeking the alpha. To be honest, I read arrogance in both ASF and Corgaigh's statements. I think if they looked at them sincerely neither would deny it.

Me, I'm not arrogant, I'm just better than all of you in every conceivable way.

[AsburySkinsFan]

No, no no. The "arrogance" is his claim that he knows something that other religions don't and it's as correct as the actual usable knowledge of a paramedic, even though he knows he can't prove it. He knows that only his product will save you. He is certain that many of the other posters on this message board are 'not saved' ... Burgold, Skinshokiefan and many others 'cause they bought the wrong product. That's what we mean by arrogance.

You call it arrogance because you want to paint me in the negative. You want proof I'm right? That will come soon enough in time. And I have faith that my "product" will save you, I trust in my "product" and I tell others about my "product" because it is a message that I believe to be true for this life and the next, and because I actually act so bold as to make a claim against other claims then I'm arrogant, sorry but your whole claim to this arrogance thing doesn't work except in your own cynical mind.

---------- Post added April-22nd-2011 at 09:07 AM ----------

I think there is a certain degree of arrogance that's natural and almost mandatory the moment you choose a side. Be it Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Atheist, or whatever. Almost all believe our traditions are best... otherwise, we would adapt them or renounce them. Personally, I try to be respectful of all and believe that you can find truth from any number of perspectives and more importantly that different perspectives offer different valid truths.

But let's be honest, a certain degree of arrogance is a fundamental part of humanity whether its my football team is better than yours, my religion is better than yours, my politics is better than yours... humanity is always seeking the alpha. To be honest, I read arrogance in both ASF and Corgaigh's statements. I think if they looked at them sincerely neither would deny it.

Me, I'm not arrogant, I'm just better than all of you in every conceivable way.

You call it arrogance, I call it being assured, and that's not just a semantic difference. Is it arrogant to call a child in from the middle of the road? No, it's being assured of what will happen otherwise. They just want to paint me as arrogant for my beliefs because that will allow them to dismiss what I say more easily than they already do.

[Corcaigh]

You call it arrogance, I call it being assured, and that's not just a semantic difference. Is it arrogant to call a child in from the middle of the road? No, it's being assured of what will happen otherwise. They just want to paint me as arrogant for my beliefs because that will allow them to dismiss what I say more easily than they already do.

Did Glenn Beck write that? :evilg:

[Burgold]

The danger of the internet is that inability to read tone. Reading some of the stuff flatly that arrogance is in there (not to a hostile exhaustive degree, but still there). You may not mean it that way, but it's how some of it comes across. I'm sure and I know for a fact that a number of my thoughts have been misread on the board as being arrogant or obnoxious. In fact, there will be some readers who truly believe that I believe the quip I made at the conclusion of my last post. When you have a strong opinion, it is difficult for it not to be perceived as arrogant esp. when you are in conflict with someone else's opinion.

Whether you meant it or felt it... I have no idea.

[rdsknbill]

Well, This got interesting. Nice to see that I wasn't the only one that felt that ASF was an arrogant :shutup:

:munchout:

[brettstr]

There is weak, and then there is this weak. We call it the Bible God called it the Word that is sharper than a double edge sword. Have fun building that strawman, when you're ready I'll come over and help you kick it down.

Sure you can identify with God speaking directly to you, but then if you allow that God has spoken directly to you then you must also allow that God is speaking directly to others and if the God that is speaking is to be trusted then what is being said should tend to agree with the other things that are said. In that we agree, and we Christians put all those writings in one nice handy book.

Nope, and that was a one time deal in a culture where child sacrifice was not out of the norm, what's more is that Abraham was told to do that before the Law was ever given, and the Law specifically forbids child sacrifice, as such God never had any intention of allowing Abraham to go through with it which is why He supplied the ram.

You're exactly right, and the fact that man is fallible is the whole reason that God sent His son so that man might be redeemed by faith.

So you want to quote Jesus' words to me in an effort to convince me to NOT proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ, even though Jesus himself tells us to go and proclaim his good news to all the nations? Hmmmm, seems as if you just want to cherry pick Jesus' sayings for your own purposes.

ASF

There is a difference between spreading or proclaiming Gospel, Theory, Thoughts, Analogy and Self Interpretation. No one you know. knows someone, that knows someone, that knows someone, that knows somone..... and on and on that was there to support any of the writings and validate they were actually said and done. Some of the writings could have been made up, fantasized or day dreamed. Thats why your personal relationship is important. Can you not imagine different interpretations were put in the minds of humans and fallacy allowed to be written to turn you over to a better way of hearing. How many Humans have perverted what you believe is gospel. Do you not not they were not stopped from doing it. they could have been stopped dont you believe? So look in Kings and see where the lying spirit was sent to fool Ahabs prophets. So dont you believe lying spirits can still be sent.? God is God, is he not? Maybe some of the writings were meant to deceive. All things are possible are they Not?

You my friend have been well trained on how Not to answer the question posed before you. You have skirted around each question presented to you.

By your answers it is obvious the questions you ask are challening and the statemnts given to you are even more challenging.

Consider Jesus said "Why do you call me good?" Look up (Cristo) You have to read for understanding. But you like so many put the book in between you and your Creator. You were never told to do that. The book is a precursor for understanding.

? Did you ever read where Jesus called himself a Christian. So why do you if you want to be like him, sound like him, act like him. You do know he probably knew what the word was right? but yet he never used it to identify himself or those who walked with him.

You have never seen a Christian only a human who wants to be One, but has trouble walking the path. So who can be "Saved" and who can Save?

Did you take the time to look up the true meaning of Christian yet. if you did not its a shame

Just wait on it to come and get you. Salvation. and stop trying to do the impossible and be Holy, Pure, clean and unfallable. You are Human. You are chasing something that you do not understand

It says "with God all things are possible"

You come across as a Pharasee and a Sadducees

And by the way your answers and debate come across to me as mean spirited, now is that being a good Christian? I should hope Not

[Burgold]

Actually, the term Christian came after Jesus and was originally an insult meant to describe people who were trying to act like "little Christs"

[AsburySkinsFan]

ASF

There is a difference between spreading or proclaiming Gospel, Theory, Thoughts, Analogy and Self Interpretation. No one you know. knows someone, that knows someone, that knows someone, that knows somone..... and on and on that was there to support any of the writings and validate they were actually said and done.

Irrelevant. The same could be said about Christopher Columbus...and yet.

Some of the writings could have been made up, fantasized or day dreamed.

Sure and I could really be a brain in a jar on a shelf dreaming all of this......

Thats why your personal relationship is important.

Relationship has no bearing on truth.

Can you not imagine different interpretations were put in the minds of humans and fallacy allowed to be written to turn you over to a better way of hearing.

Sure I can imagine them, different interpretations...here we go again with the interpretations, there are legitimate and illegitimate interpretations based on the texts, ask rdsknbill.

How many Humans have perverted what you believe is gospel.

Irrelevant, human failing is not proof of the untruthfulness of the Gospel.

Do you not not they were not stopped from doing it. they could have been stopped dont you believe? So look in Kings and see where the lying spirit was sent to fool Ahabs prophets. So dont you believe lying spirits can still be sent? God is God, is he not? Maybe some of the writings were meant to deceive. All things are possible are they Not?

No, God is truth. You're twisting the texts to fit your agenda, and that's an illegitimate use of scripture.

You my friend have been well trained on how Not to answer the question posed before you. You have skirted around each question presented to you.

Because I reject the basis of the questions.

By your answers it is obvious the questions you ask are challenging and the statements given to you are even more challenging.

Not sure what you're getting at here.

Consider Jesus said "Why do you call me good?" Look up (Cristo) You have to read for understanding. But you like so many put the book in between you and your Creator. You were never told to do that. The book is a precursor for understanding.

And yet the book is the revelation of the creator....sooo....

? Did you ever read where Jesus called himself a Christian. So why do you if you want to be like him, sound like him, act like him. You do know he probably knew what the word was right? but yet he never used it to identify himself or those who walked with him.

See Burgold's answer, he's right on the money. Christians first called themselves "Followers of the Way", we adopted the name Christian because it explained who we are just as well, even if it was meant to be derogatory.

You have never seen a Christian only a human who wants to be One, but has trouble walking the path. So who can be "Saved" and who can Save?

Nope, I've seen plenty of Christians as Christian is just a label for disciples of Jesus of Nazareth, what I haven't seen any resurrected Christians yet, all in due time though.

Did you take the time to look up the true meaning of Christian yet. if you did not its a shame

Asked and answered.

Just wait on it to come and get you. Salvation. and stop trying to do the impossible and be Holy, Pure, clean and unfallable. You are Human. You are chasing something that you do not understand

I do not make myself holy, pure, clean or infallible...my righteousness is reckoned to me by faith, any holiness, purity that I have is because of the grace of God not a work of my own. Honestly, if you're going to lecture me about what I'm doing in my faith then it would behoove you to first learn about my faith.

It says "with God all things are possible"

You bet.

You come across as a Pharasee and a Sadducees

And yet there were Pharisees and Sadducees who became disciples of Jesus.

And by the way your answers and debate come across to me as mean spirited, now is that being a good Christian? I should hope Not

:doh:

---------- Post added April-22nd-2011 at 10:15 AM ----------

Well, This got interesting. Nice to see that I wasn't the only one that felt that ASF was an arrogant :shutup:

:munchout:

Nice to see you haven't left the thread, but just stopped answering questions.

[MisterPinstripe]

ASF

Consider Jesus said "Why do you call me good?" Look up (Cristo) You have to read for understanding. But you like so many put the book in between you and your Creator. You were never told to do that. The book is a precursor for understanding.

? Did you ever read where Jesus called himself a Christian. So why do you if you want to be like him, sound like him, act like him. You do know he probably knew what the word was right? but yet he never used it to identify himself or those who walked with him.

You have never seen a Christian only a human who wants to be One, but has trouble walking the path. So who can be "Saved" and who can Save?

Did you take the time to look up the true meaning of Christian yet. if you did not its a shame

Just wait on it to come and get you. Salvation. and stop trying to do the impossible and be Holy, Pure, clean and unfallable. You are Human. You are chasing something that you do not understand

It says "with God all things are possible"

You come across as a Pharasee and a Sadducees

And by the way your answers and debate come across to me as mean spirited, now is that being a good Christian? I should hope Not

... Have you been drinking or something? A lot of what you said makes no sense at all... And the random capital letters are confusing, FYI.

[zoony]

Every successful religion has such stories.[

Yah, the Torah is filled with stories about God getting killed by a few mortals. So were the ancient religions of Greece and Rome. Zeus was a well-documented wuss.

.....

[Corcaigh]

Yah, the Torah is filled with stories about God getting killed by a few mortals. So were the ancient religions of Greece and Rome. Zeus was a well-documented wuss.

.....

The Greek gods liked to have sex with mortal women too. It often didn't turn out well.

[Conn]

Keeping the tally:

ASF is like:

The driver of a water truck in the desert.

A paramedic, saving your life.

An adult, telling a child to get out of the middle of the road.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Keeping the tally:

All Christians who proclaim the Gospel of Jesus are like:

The driver of a water truck in the desert.

A paramedic, saving your life.

An adult, telling a child to get out of the middle of the road.

Fixed it for you.

[10fttall]

? Did you ever read where Jesus called himself a Christian. So why do you if you want to be like him, sound like him, act like him. You do know he probably knew what the word was right? but yet he never used it to identify himself or those who walked with him......

..........................

Did you take the time to look up the true meaning of Christian yet. if you did not its a shame

Have YOU looked up the meaning? No one was called a Christian until much later, and Jesus would have no reason to designate himself as a follower of himself. Have you studied the Bible at all? I see some random verses thrown around, but that's about all. I know thad Jesus did call himself the Son of God. That's a little more "arrogant" than claiming to be a Christian, huh? And I know that he called his disciples apostolos, sent ones or ambassadors. I also know that if you look into the lives of Jesus' own apostles, you will find a LOT of humanity that spilled over even though they were in the physical presence of Jesus Christ. They were far from perfect, even after Pentacost. Read a little, it is pretty good. The weaknesses of even the disciples of Jesus, also gives a clear example and hope to Christians now who are trying to follow Christ but will never and can never be perfect.

[brettstr]

I guess I overwhelmed many here with an open question, especially "Why call yourself something that was originallly meant as a label of insult and to weave out those to be victims of heinious acts, But who am I?

I asked if Jesus never called himself a christian and he had forsight to know many would call him that and he said " Why do you call me good" then..........

Some of the responses show me that some here dont unsderstand the root and original definitions of words.

Take note: I will never try and persuade any of you to embrace or adopt my own personal belief. Just asked some candid questions.

I wonder how many of you that embrace the word Christian, would lay down their life if an army appeared and began to slay all christians? Would you raise your hand and say I am one.

????????????????????????????????????????????????/

[10fttall]

I guess I overwhelmed many here with an open question, especially "Why call yourself something that was originallly meant as a label of insult and to weave out those to be victims of heinious acts, But who am I?

I asked if Jesus never called himself a christian and he had forsight to know many would call him that and he said " Why do you call me good" then..........

Actually you have been sadly underwhelming and pedantic. You consider it some kind of a trump card that Jesus never called himself a Christian. This alone is enough to clearly indicate you do not, or you refuse to have any more than a superficial, cherry picking discussion.

[brettstr]

Actually you have been sadly underwhelming and pedantic. You consider it some kind of a trump card that Jesus never called himself a Christian. This alone is enough to clearly indicate you do not, or you refuse to have any more than a superficial, cherry picking discussion.

The pedantic stone that will destroy the colossal mindset of religion and will be used to teach and enlighten the entire world.

And now I will turn the other cheek and bid you farewell.

May Peace be with you

[Spec138]

I think there is a certain degree of arrogance that's natural and almost mandatory the moment you choose a side. Be it Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Atheist, or whatever.

The stance of atheism/agnosticism is as far from arrogance as you can get (I say atheist/agnostic because I personally view atheism as

). I simply say there there is no evidence for any one religion over another and no obvious ruler of the universe. Atheism is the rejection of some pretty extraordinary claims in favor of skepticism, at least in my case. When viewed side by side with claims to know the mind of the creator of the universe, I can't say I see my claim as arrogant.

Note that I'm not saying religious folk are any more arrogant than non-religious overall, I'm simply reviewing one claim.

[authentic]

The stance of atheism/agnosticism is as far from arrogance as you can get (I say atheist/agnostic because I personally view atheism as

). I simply say there there is no evidence for any one religion over another and no obvious ruler of the universe. Atheism is the rejection of some pretty extraordinary claims in favor of skepticism, at least in my case. When viewed side by side with claims to know the mind of the creator of the universe, I can't say I see my claim as arrogant.

Note that I'm not saying religious folk are any more arrogant than non-religious overall, I'm simply reviewing one claim.

IDK, my personal experience with athiest and gnostics is that they are some of the most arrogant and condescending ppl on the face of the earth. I can't tell you the amount of times i've tried to get into civilized conversations that quickly turned into being cursed at. Not saying all are like that, i'm positive ALL aren't but most that i've dealt with appear to be some miserable ppl.