Burgold Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I read that as hyperbole rather than a statement of fact. You mean it wasn't intended to be a "factual" comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 You mean it wasn't intended to be a "factual" comment That's they way I read it, and the way I HOPE it was intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsknbill Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Nice to see you haven't abandoned the thread, just that you like to occasionally toss in irrelevant bombs in order to show your annoyance with me. BTW, in case you were wondering, and you probably already knew this which just makes your comment above a matter of pure trolling, Sunday School doesn't start until 10am, and then the brow beating commences at 11am. ---------- Post added April-24th-2011 at 09:02 AM ---------- LOL! Yeah I love that picture! It's from Vacation Bible School, and the kids loved it. Probably some of the most fun I've had at a VBS in a long time. Oh and if you think that's supposed to be some sort of an insult, you're sadly mistaken, but then I'm not surprised that someone who refuses to argue facts would try to do an end around with some limp wristed ad hominem. Although you'd never believe how hot that jacket was, it was like wearing carpet. No I haven't abandoned the thread. I was just enjoying watching you Spew things like "You don't know how to actually READ what that verse says" or "Your perception is WAY off if that is what you take out of what that said in the bible." I have been thoroughly enjoying watching you tramp on other people because you believe that YOUR perception of the bible is ALL KNOWING AND ALL SEEING, and for anyone to contradict you, you label them a fool and not worthy of your attention You, sir, are everything I hate about Christianity, almost as much as the kid touching freaks that the Vatican so adamantly protects. Please enlighten me that those catholic priests are just "lost souls" and are worthy of forgiveness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 No I haven't abandoned the thread. I was just enjoying watching you Spew things like "You don't know how to actually READ what that verse says" or "Your perception is WAY off if that is what you take out of what that said in the bible." I have been thoroughly enjoying watching you tramp on other people because you believe that YOUR perception of the bible is ALL KNOWING AND ALL SEEING, and for anyone to contradict you, you label them a fool and not worthy of your attentionYou, sir, are everything I hate about Christianity, almost as much as the kid touching freaks that the Vatican so adamantly protects If standing for an Orthodox interpretation of scripture is what offends you then sir, I will not apologize for offending, but as I said before I won't pretend that wrong interpretations are just as valid as well informed and well read interpretations. Like I said, I don't try to pass myself off as an expert in Shakespeare and I wouldn't expect an expert in Shakespeare to take my misinformed opinion of Shakespeare as an equally valid opinion, but because it is Christianity then supposedly all interpretations are of equal standing and they are not. Right belief is JUST as important as right action; it's called orthodoxy and orthopraxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Don't want to get in the middle of this fight, but I'd ask you to consider this. Who amongst us can fully and completely understand God or his will? I have difficulty comprehending that any interpretation of man being 100% correct and unassailable. I don't expect people to give all answers equal weight as some ring truer than others or others have more credence behind them, but I do think that absolute certainty is a dangerous form of hubris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsknbill Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 If standing for an Orthodox interpretation of scripture is what offends you then sir, I will not apologize for offending, but as I said before I won't pretend that wrong interpretations are just as valid as well informed and well read interpretations. Like I said, I don't try to pass myself off as an expert in Shakespeare and I wouldn't expect an expert in Shakespeare to take my misinformed opinion of Shakespeare as an equally valid opinion, but because it is Christianity then supposedly all interpretations are of equal standing and they are not.Right belief is JUST as important as right action; it's called orthodoxy and orthopraxy. you're right, you don't try to pass yourself of as a Shakespearean expert. You're not that smart. Again, It's "I'm right and you are WRONG!" You should run for Pope. ---------- Post added April-25th-2011 at 09:14 AM ---------- Don't want to get in the middle of this fight, but I'd ask you to consider this. Who amongst us can fully and completely understand God or his will? I have difficulty comprehending that any interpretation of man being 100% correct and unassailable. I don't expect people to give all answers equal weight as some ring truer than others or others have more credence behind them, but I do think that absolute certainty is a dangerous form of hubris. Uh oh! A truly brilliant post. (wish I would've been that eloquent) You're wasting your time there Burgold. He knows it all and tells it all. Any other interpretation is absolutely false in his eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 YAY! Another "let's judge the people that don't go to church" threadReally? :stfu: JQUNigVcBB8 Good stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 ASF, we had a discussion about going to church. You told me basically...People don't know everything just from the book, and that is why you should go. If that is the case...Why read the book at all ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Don't want to get in the middle of this fight, but I'd ask you to consider this. Who amongst us can fully and completely understand God or his will? I have difficulty comprehending that any interpretation of man being 100% correct and unassailable. I don't expect people to give all answers equal weight as some ring truer than others or others have more credence behind them, but I do think that absolute certainty is a dangerous form of hubris. Not being able to fully 100% understand the mind of God or His will is not the same as not being able to understand it at all or even sufficiently, it's also not an excuse to excuse open ended interpretations of scripture. ---------- Post added April-25th-2011 at 10:36 AM ---------- ASF, we had a discussion about going to church. You told me basically...People don't know everything just from the book, and that is why you should go. If that is the case...Why read the book at all ? Because what is in the Book is valuable, very valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Only God knows if we understand it "sufficiently," but I agree with the first part of the sentence. I think there is that which we know whether because it's genetically programmed into us or environmentally taught. There are certain things that are so universally understood to be good or evil that it seems unlikely that we're wrong about them. Some good and evil exists on a preconscious level. We just know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 you're right, you don't try to pass yourself of as a Shakespearean expert. You're not that smart. Well, I'm glad you finally reduced yourself to employing personal insults, I'm sure that's a fine way to prove your point. BTW, all you've done in this thread is make statements and interpretations that you refuse to back up with actual scripture, but hey as long as we get to say what scripture says without ever actually addressing the scriptures themselves this game should be easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goingforburgundy Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I hate when anyone says something like that. Im atheist, im christian, im gay. I just sit there and think "Ok... I care because?" The one that gets me the most is the gay one. Im not homophobic but do they really need to go flaunt it. I really dont go into conversations with new people and 3 mins into talking with them and say I like to bone women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Only God knows if we understand it "sufficiently," but I agree with the first part of the sentence. I think there is that which we know whether because it's genetically programmed into us or environmentally taught. There are certain things that are so universally understood to be good or evil that it seems unlikely that we're wrong about them. Some good and evil exists on a preconscious level. We just know. I'm not even talking on a preconscious level, I'm talking about addressing the text of what's given to us, I had this argument before in this thread that there are legitimate and illegitimate interpretations of the text itself, and it's not based on what I think, it's based on what the scripture actually says. "Judge not lest you be judged", was tossed out as a proof text to say that I was sinning because I judged someone's interpretation to be seriously flawed and apparently God doesn't want us to judge. And if we just let those six words stand on their own then that interpretation looks legitimate, however if we read the text that follows it talks about using the same standard of judgment on someone else that you would use on yourself, it also goes on to say that before you remove the speck from your neighbors eye remove the beam from your own in order that you might see better. Both of those put the "judge not lest you be judged" statement into a fuller context as they both talk about how to rightly judge/evaluate another. As such the original interpretation and application of the six words are illegitimate. And though we will never understand the full mind of God, that does not mean that we get to make up what we know about God, or make up what the scripture actually says in spite of the texts themselves. But, then I'm just an elitist, stupid jerk who is the equivalent of a pedophile priest. (That last part wasn't to you Burgold.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 The real question is: Can there be 2 contradicting interpretations to Biblical text and BOTH be correct? From a logical stand point, I say its impossible. If you have all interpretations being correct, contradicting or not, then there's no such thing as "absolute" truth which = mass confusion. And i'm certain deep down in our conscience, whether it be a believer or non believer, there are basic truths that we know to be absolute truths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 The real question is: Can there be 2 contradicting interpretations to Biblical text and BOTH be correct? From a logical stand point, I say its impossible. I agree, there are times when there are two contradicting interpretations of a text, but normally in those cases the differences are due to the text being ambiguous from the start. What I find, and what has happened in this thread is that some take the fact that there isn't always clarity in a few (vast minority) of texts and then pretend that since that is the case then all texts share the same ambiguity, which couldn't be further from the truth. If you have all interpretations being correct, contradicting or not, then there's no such thing as "absolute" truth which = mass confusion. Again, the places where there is the appearance of multiple interpretations being correct are in the vast minority and both sides usually agree that if there was more information then one interpretation would bear itself out as the more accurate one, as such it's not so much a matter of the equal truthfulness of two competing interpretations, but instead a lack of information that would bring the real clarity. And i'm certain deep down in our conscience, whether it be a believer or non believer, there are basic truths that we know to be absolute truths. I'm not sure whether this is something that everyone would confess to or not, but it seems evident to me that this is the practical philosophy we live by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I see what you're saying, but religious scholars even get into arguments about what "Thou shalt not kill" really means. Even some of the the most concrete and straightforward stuff humans can't help arguing over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 ASF that is double talk. In one breath you are telling me I need the book, in the next you are telling me that going to services are equally important. As we talked about before, there is no reason to go to church if you have read and interpreted the book, or there is no reason to read the book if you are going to learn from it by going to service every week, sometimes (as my Grandmother) several times per week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I see what you're saying, but religious scholars even get into arguments about what"Thou shalt not kill" really means. Even some of the the most concrete and straightforward stuff humans can't help arguing over. I'm familiar with the arguements, and usually those debates usually delve heavily into semantics.... Without being overly simplistic, i'll say that if a criminal were to: Kill, steal, or rape one of our loved ones, would truth or morals still be "relative/subjective"? ---------- Post added April-25th-2011 at 11:33 AM ---------- ASF that is double talk. In one breath you are telling me I need the book, in the next you are telling me that going to services are equally important. As we talked about before, there is no reason to go to church if you have read and interpreted the book, or there is no reason to read the book if you are going to learn from it by going to service every week, sometimes (as my Grandmother) several times per week. There's one thing to read and properly interpret scripture, its an entirely different thing to know how to apply it to your life. I believe that needs to be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I hate when anyone says something like that. Im atheist, im christian, im gay. I just sit there and think "Ok... I care because?" The one that gets me the most is the gay one. Im not homophobic but do they really need to go flaunt it. I really dont go into conversations with new people and 3 mins into talking with them and say I like to bone women. wait, you're NOT supposed to say that? no wonder my boss has been stand offish lately...hmmm, you learn something new everyday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 It is said that the AthIest Dogma can not exist without acknowledging the I Hate God part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweedr01 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 ASF that is double talk. In one breath you are telling me I need the book, in the next you are telling me that going to services are equally important. As we talked about before, there is no reason to go to church if you have read and interpreted the book, or there is no reason to read the book if you are going to learn from it by going to service every week, sometimes (as my Grandmother) several times per week. This is just my opinion but it has really been helpful for me progressing in my faith. I try to make time for both. Reading the Bible lets me see it first hand what is written and I can learn myself. Going to church also gives me that ability, but there is also the fellowship. I can only go so far on my own, but when you have others there to talk to and help me stay steady on my path, it helps me grow in my faith. Basically, you can learn a lot from reading the Bible on your own, but being able to stay on the straight and narrow is much easier when you have other people who are going through the same things you are to lean on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 It is said that the AthIest Dogma can not exist without acknowledging the I Hate God part. What is the atheist dogma? I need to read this stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Dave you been in my history ? I just watched The Tuxedo last night and checked out the original J-Lo. Don't like her smile, but she is pretty sexy. :D I have that DVD as well as several seasons of the Ghost Whisperer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 authentic, if you read and understand the book, why can't you also understand how it relates to you ? That is part of understanding. IMO. Tweed, I understand the fellowship part and if that is something you appreciate that's cool. Some guys ride motorcycles together, some guys golf, some guys play football. It's more social than spiritual in that aspect though don't you think ? Hey, if you guys are addicted to being righteous people, I will never stand in the way and appreciate that very much. I just dont understand the need to continue to read the book over and over, nor do I understand going to church for the extended knowledge of something you should already understand. Then again I don't understand how Koresh and Jones got so many followers either. ---------- Post added April-25th-2011 at 01:09 PM ---------- :DI have that DVD as well as several seasons of the Ghost Whisperer. Guess I need to check out Ghost Whisperer. I have always been a fan of her looks. But I have heard that show was good on top of it. She is probably crazy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcsluggo Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 and why do people watch those silly men in tights and padding running into each other week after week after week... i mean, the rules don't change (much), and in the case of the team based in washington DC, the results really don't change either. Why watch? in the end one team is going to win, just like last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.