Kosher Ham Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 If you came up to me and told me you're Christian, I might throw in the lions den.....But seriously, I don't usually have someone come up and declare that to me. I don't know why everyone wants to label themselves in some sort of group. I don't really care what religion you are. But it seems uber religious people have to make sure everyone "knows" they are Christian. It does make themselves look high & mighty and judgemental. And Koolblue, you've been on a real tear about animals and animal rights. That's great if thats your thing, but you seem to be forcing your values on everyone in here in just about every other thread. You also seem to read and take every bible verse literally, which I really think makes a person closed minded. Most of the bible is up for interpretation by the individual is meant to be a guide, not a strict policy (IMO). Great post. I have no problem killing that annoying occasional fly in the house, and no remorse either...and certainly I am not eating it. ---------- Post added April-20th-2011 at 11:35 AM ---------- Name a mammal thats a vegan / vegetarian That is easy. A Giraffe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsknbill Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I know what you are talking about and the person I know that uses it is truely annoying about it. She certainly uses it as an "I am better than you moment". No other person has to say that during a conversation. It makes ZERO difference to me whether you are Christian, gay, black, or whatever. Stupid is stupid, sound is sound. She uses it in a way to say, I am a Christian woman so I live a just life and represent that. Her representing a Christian is not a selling point for me. Because I see her as a manipulative, shady person. Thank you. That is my point. I deal with this quite a bit from one of my siblings. I get it! Your religious, but don't beat me over the head about it. And in all honesty, my problem is with organized religion. There are too many people that feel because they take an hour out of their Sunday to attend a church, it empowers them with the right to judge other people. When at the end of the day, the bible teaches tolerance and acceptance. And thank you all for piling up on me. real mature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I just wonder why if god wants us to love all his creatures, why do we kill so many senselessly without accountability and why it's not more of an issue with the religious folks. Because for a long time the American church has operated under a theology that said that humanity had dominion over creation as such we could do whatever we wanted to with it, however that is changing as more and more church leaders are understanding that dominion does not mean abuse, but that like Adam we are given to be the caretakers of God's creation. Sorry if I offend. No offense taken, I think you raise some good points, even if we'll agree on whether animals have souls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Oh no, not "corporation blame", but corporate (all of us together) blame; i.e. societal blame. Didn't want to quote the entire wall of text. So, if we are all to blame, why isn't there more of a push to act more humane towards animals? It would seem like a major priority. From a lot of what I read, it seems like a lot of Christians take it that everything on this planet, was put here for their use and there is no consequence to how it's used. Honestly, it seems kind of arrogant, which is a problem I have with humans in general. Other than religion, which I don't superscribe to, I don't understand what makes humans better than anything else, especially compared to the harm we do to pretty much everything else on this planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Thank you. That is my point. I deal with this quite a bit from one of my siblings. I get it! Your religious, but don't beat me over the head about it. And in all honesty, my problem is with organized religion. There are too many people that feel because they take an hour out of their Sunday to attend a church, it empowers them with the right to judge other people. This isn't an organized religion problem...this is a humanity problem. When at the end of the day, the bible teaches tolerance and acceptance. Actually it teaches love and justice and being a disciple of Jesus Christ (at least when read Genesis through Revelation), the sins are never accepted as being normative, the sins of those who call out to the Lord are forgiven through grace, God never tolerates our sin...he forgives it, by reckoning us as righteous through faith in Jesus, and then tells us to go and sin no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Thank you. That is my point. I deal with this quite a bit from one of my siblings. I get it! Your religious, but don't beat me over the head about it. And in all honesty, my problem is with organized religion. There are too many people that feel because they take an hour out of their Sunday to attend a church, it empowers them with the right to judge other people. When at the end of the day, the bible teaches tolerance and acceptance.And thank you all for piling up on me. real mature I hear you, but on the flip side i hate when non-believers feel the liberty to paint ALL christians as hateful, judgemental, nut-jobs. Both extremes are in error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Animal cruelty such as throwing puppies into a creek or setting a cat on fire (both were on youtube / dailymotion) is usually down by crazy people who need to be institutionalized ASAP and I believe there is a special place for them in the afterlife. I do not tell people they are going to Hell because of their lack of believe or their desire to indulge in behavior that is universally seen as sinful. I'm looking forward to Jennifer Love Hewitt helping me cross over to the place with plenty of elbow room instead taking the elevator down to the overcrowded basement with some of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Sorry if you feel like I'm doing it, I know I've been a little pushy with it. I feel that it is on topic though for this thread.I've been close to a ton of severely abused animals lately and it is certainly getting to me. As for the bible versus, I know it's an extremely vague book. I just wonder why if god wants us to love all his creatures, why do we kill so many senselessly without accountability and why it's not more of an issue with the religious folks. Sorry if I offend. Not offended. Please don't take it that way. I know you are passionate about animals and that is to be commended. With all the bible verses you quoted I was under the impression that you were taking them too literally. Keep up the good work with the animals. I wish I had something I was passionate about. Just be careful how far you go with it in here. As you know, this is a very opinionated place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Dave you been in my history ? I just watched The Tuxedo last night and checked out the original J-Lo. Don't like her smile, but she is pretty sexy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Didn't want to quote the entire wall of text. No prob. So, if we are all to blame, why isn't there more of a push to act more humane towards animals? It would seem like a major priority. It is growing, but there is still a lot of resistance to the theology of caring for creation, because there has been a well established bigotry against anything that even looks like a tree hugger, but it is growing. Here is our United Methodist Social Principles on the Natural World http://www.umc-gbcs.org/site/c.frLJK2PKLqF/b.3712925/k.28DD/182160_I_The_Natural_World/apps/nl/newsletter.asp ...more at link. All creation is the Lord’s, and we are responsible for the ways in which we use and abuse it. Water, air, soil, minerals, energy resources, plants, animal life, and space are to be valued and conserved because they are God’s creation and not solely because they are useful to human beings. God has granted us stewardship of creation. We should meet these stewardship duties through acts of loving care and respect. From a lot of what I read, it seems like a lot of Christians take it that everything on this planet, was put here for their use and there is no consequence to how it's used. Honestly, it seems kind of arrogant, which is a problem I have with humans in general. It has been a failing in the church to be sure, of that there is no doubt. Other than religion, which I don't superscribe to, I don't understand what makes humans better than anything else, especially compared to the harm we do to pretty much everything else on this planet. But for me my faith has everything to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 ...And another point about this "Tolerance" issue that i hear and see being thrown around so loosely....I haven't met a tolerant person in my life; let alone the average "fundamentalist Christian". If we all are honest with our selves, we would confess that we are ALL intolerant toward ppl and concepts that contradict our core beliefs. This goes for believers and non-believers alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 ASF, thanks for the great responses and it makes me happy to know that the views are shifting. Great link too. I know a lot of good is done by religious groups and I'm glad. Whatever it takes. As a Quaker, we were taught humility and I think when in terms of anything not human, it tends to get ignored to often. pj, thanks for the kind words, my life truly is changing in a strange way. I've spent years channeling my inner teenager, when I've recently realized I should be channeling my inner 8 year old. As far as the opinionated and view towards the tree hugger comments, I see a lot of anger from people when you mention vegetarianism or animal rights in here and in real life and I just don't understand it. I saw an incredibly heart breaking documentary about specieism called Earthlings and was going to start a thread about it, but saw that footballhenry had already done that and I read most of the thread (and it's a long one) and the amount of ignorance and hate in that thread was just infuriating. Granted it was footballhenry and he tends to bring it on himself, but it was just over the top, even including mods and some of the better posters on here. So yes, I get the opinionated thing. But thanks for the civil conversation about something I have been wondering about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 This thread is full of Win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 ASF, thanks for the great responses and it makes me happy to know that the views are shifting. Great link too. I know a lot of good is done by religious groups and I'm glad. Whatever it takes. As a Quaker, we were taught humility and I think when in terms of anything not human, it tends to get ignored to often. Thank you for engaging with honest questions, and concerns imagine if every conversation here did that. One can dream right?! As far as the opinionated and view towards the tree hugger comments, I see a lot of anger from people when you mention vegetarianism or animal rights in here and in real life and I just don't understand it. Yeah, I'm still not sure why there is so much open hostility, but one thing that I find interesting is that when activists work with farmers and show them kinder animal care that the farmers are normally quick to adopt the changes because it usually results in less stressed and healthier animals, seems that most of the hostility comes from outside, and I wonder how much of it is due to the politicization of the topic rather than the topic itself. :whoknows: So yes, I get the opinionated thing. But thanks for the civil conversation about something I have been wondering about. Yeah, I get opinionated too, but then that's kinda my job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettstr Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I am soo tempted to....but I don't think I want to chase that rabbit. It is fruitless to chase that which you cannot see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 It is fruitless to chase that which you cannot see. Yet easy to follow that which has been revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsknbill Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 This isn't an organized religion problem...this is a humanity problem.Actually it teaches love and justice and being a disciple of Jesus Christ (at least when read Genesis through Revelation), the sins are never accepted as being normative, the sins of those who call out to the Lord are forgiven through grace, God never tolerates our sin...he forgives it, by reckoning us as righteous through faith in Jesus, and then tells us to go and sin no more. Hmm Thank you for telling me my interpretation of the bible and Thank you for proving my point. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Hmm Thank you for telling me my interpretation of the bible and Thank you for proving my point. :doh: The Bible is not up to individual interpretation, there ARE legitimate interpretations of the Bible according to the text, and there are wrong interpretations. You don't get to read Robert Frost and claim that Robert Frost is writing about sexual escapades of dope addicts, your interpretation of the text must at some point actually fit the text if it is to be considered a legitimate interpretation, and this is the reason that scriptural interpretation has always been a community activity. In the end you are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts, and the fact is that God is highly intolerant, God demands absolute adherence to a certain life, however he has grace for when we fail. God does not look at our lives with tolerance, and I would challenge you to find the texts where God does. What we do is is Jesus speaking "Go and sin no more." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsknbill Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 The Bible is not up to individual interpretation, there ARE legitimate interpretations of the Bible according to the text, and there are wrong interpretations. You don't get to read Robert Frost and claim that Robert Frost is writing about sexual escapades of dope addicts, your interpretation of the text must at some point actually fit the text if it is to be considered a legitimate interpretation, and this is the reason that scriptural interpretation has always been a community activity. In the end you are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts, and the fact is that God is highly intolerant, God demands absolute adherence to a certain life, however he has grace for when we fail. God does not look at our lives with tolerance, and I would challenge you to find the texts where God does. What we do is is Jesus speaking "Go and sin no more." And yet again. You are sinning because you judge and TELL people what they should think. "Judge NOT lest ye be JUDGED". Read that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 And yet again. You are sinning because you judge and TELL people what they should think."Judge NOT lest ye be JUDGED". Read that one? Ok, I'm trying to not be a jerk, so I'm going to give you some time to actually go and look up that passage...the WHOLE passage and not just the 6 words you want to edit out of context. I've even done the hard work for you. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%207&version=NIV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsknbill Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Ok, I'm trying to not be a jerk] oh it is SOOOOOO TOO LATE for that. Peace. It's okay ASF Thanks for the link to something I already knew. I have read the passage, just because I don't go to church doesn't mean I haven't read the bible extensively. Assume much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettstr Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Yet easy to follow that which has been revealed. Following an (Enigma ) that has been Revealed, cannot, was not, will not ever be Easy to follow. If it were, many would not Lament on the amount of Sin that THEY believe is created By Them on a daily, hourly and by the minute basis. If you believe it is easy to follow Christ (Please use the Accordance to break down this word, you just might be surprised at what is revealed to you.) you have arrived. Hint: It is not a man or human. And if you futher beleive you have encountered One, you have Ascended truly. Question: To what do you believe has been revealed to Humans. Jesus was the Son of God? Jesus was the Ensample or Example (Which ever you believe in, Life or Death, of how to live your life? How to exist Pure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsknbill Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Following an (Enigma ) that has been Revealed, cannot, was not, will not ever be Easy to follow. If it were, many would not Lament on the amount of Sin that THEY believe is created By Them on a daily, hourly and by the minute basis. If you believe it is easy to follow Christ (Please use the Accordance to break down this word, you just might be surprised at what is revealed to you.) you have arrived.Hint: It is not a man or human. And if you futher beleive you have encountered One, you have Ascended truly. Question: To what do you believe has been revealed to Humans. Jesus was the Son of God? Jesus was the Ensample or Example (Which ever you believe in, Life or Death, of how to live your life? How to exist Pure? Give him a minute, He needs to Google every religious website in order to refute your logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardi gras skin Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I am a Christian. Sorry for being so offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 It's okay ASF Thanks for the link to something I already knew. I have read the passage, just because I don't go to church doesn't mean I haven't read the bible extensively. Assume much? So you're standing by your initial post and the interpretation that it is a sin for a Christian to "judge" in any way shape or form even after reading the passage in it's entirety? I don't assume anything about the amount you read the Bible, all I am doing is responding to the way you have chosen to interpret the texts...or rather how you choose to take them out of their contexts in order to interpret them. BTW, if I was being a jerk I would have blown open your awful interpretation of the "judge not lest you be judged" passage, and I would have shamed that interpretation for everyone to read. But, I am giving you a chance to look at it again and think about why your interpretation is wrong. ---------- Post added April-21st-2011 at 08:58 AM ---------- Following an (Enigma ) that has been Revealed, cannot, was not, will not ever be Easy to follow. If it were, many would not Lament on the amount of Sin that THEY believe is created By Them on a daily, hourly and by the minute basis. If you believe it is easy to follow Christ (Please use the Accordance to break down this word, you just might be surprised at what is revealed to you.) you have arrived.Hint: It is not a man or human. And if you futher beleive you have encountered One, you have Ascended truly. Question: To what do you believe has been revealed to Humans. Jesus was the Son of God? Jesus was the Ensample or Example (Which ever you believe in, Life or Death, of how to live your life? How to exist Pure? What's your point? Seriously, get to it, I am not feeling in the mood to jump through hopes this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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