Cliff Lee did the same thing as Lebron James! (Where's the outratge)

[pjfootballer]

Kobe did not go to trial either, so I would say that is an example of a double standard. Look at how many people booed and hated Kobe when that happened. He lost endorsement contracts, and his jersey sold less. Big Ben does it twice, and it is like it never happened, entire stadiums did not boo Ben for his deeds, he didn't loose endorsement deals.

Maybe the reason for the double standard isn't black/white, but it is hard to say that there was not one in this case, and if the double standard was not black/white, what was it?

It may be because of the type of athlete they are. Meaning, Kobe is certainly a top 3 player, maybe even #1 and the face of the NBA. Ben is not a top 10 athlete in his sport and is not really the face of the NFL. I can also agree that it's hard to say if there is a double standard or not. But neither case was swept under the rug by their leagues and both have been equally vilified. You can also add that Kobe was married and Ben was not.

"Lee was drafted by the Florida Marlins with the 12th pick of the 8th round of the 1997 Major League Baseball Draft out of Benton High School in his hometown of Benton, Arkansas, but instead chose to attend Meridian Community College in Mississippi. Later, Lee was drafted by the Baltimore Orioles in the 20th round of the 1998 amateur draft, but did not sign, opting to attend the University of Arkansas.

Ugghh!!! As an Orioles fan I did not know that. DAMN!!!!!

There is defiantly a double standard here. There is no doubt that Bonds is more hated then Clemens, but that should not be the case. There is no real evidence that Bonds has used steroids. He has never tested positive, and no one claims to have administered steroids, or to have seen him use steroids. The only thing people have on Bonds is that he said that he used creams that he got from his trainer who said they were flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm for arthritis. That leaked statement from a supposedly privete trial for BALCO.

Clemens on the other hand has had Jose Conseco, Jason Grimsley, and Andy Pettitte that all say that he uses. His trainer says that he uses, that he helped, and proved it with DNA. He was named 82 times in the Mitchell report. Yet, even with all that, there are still more people that doubt that Clemens used, than those that doubt that Bonds used.

Maybe the double standard is not because of black/white, but there is real evidence against Clemens, there is hear say and rumor around Bonds, but from what I have seen, the general perception is Bonds is 100% guilty (and a bad person for cheating and breaking a record), Clemens is probably guilty, but he might not be.

In my opinion, BOTH used, BOTH lied and BOTH should not be considered for the HOF. That whole era was crap. At the time, Clemens was exonerated and Bonds vilified. After a thorough investigation was completed, the evidence against Clemens came out. If Bonds trainer had have talked, they would have their evidence.

[SKOALSKIN]

There is defiantly a double standard here. There is no doubt that Bonds is more hated then Clemens, but that should not be the case. There is no real evidence that Bonds has used steroids. He has never tested positive, and no one claims to have administered steroids, or to have seen him use steroids. The only thing people have on Bonds is that he said that he used creams that he got from his trainer who said they were flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm for arthritis. That leaked statement from a supposedly privete trial for BALCO.

Clemens on the other hand has had Jose Conseco, Jason Grimsley, and Andy Pettitte that all say that he uses. His trainer says that he uses, that he helped, and proved it with DNA. He was named 82 times in the Mitchell report. Yet, even with all that, there are still more people that doubt that Clemens used, than those that doubt that Bonds used.

Maybe the double standard is not because of black/white, but there is real evidence against Clemens, there is hear say and rumor around Bonds, but from what I have seen, the general perception is Bonds is 100% guilty (and a bad person for cheating and breaking a record), Clemens is probably guilty, but he might not be.

There is no double standard. Bond's was implicated first with the Balco scandal. He used steroids to obtain the greatest single season MLB record. People didn't like Bond's because he was brash, standoffish and selfish. I would argue now that the public perception of clemmens vs. bond's it about equal.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

There is no double standard. Bond's was implicated first with the Balco scandal. He used steroids to obtain the greatest single season MLB record. People didn't like Bond's because he was brash, standoffish and selfish. I would argue now that the public perception of clemmens vs. bond's it about equal.

That's it right there. Clemens' steroid use didn't impact the history of the game like Bonds' did.

[Rocky21]

I don't know how we got so far off subject but I can't believe that anyone could claim Bonds didn't use steroids with a straight face.

[Enter Apotheosis]

1) Kobe Bryant & Ben Roethlisberger! Here's why the double standard is appalling. Ben was accused of raping 2 women. One which he left with a swollen forehead. We barely heard a peep out of the national media. When It was Kobe, it was the lead story for weeks.

You seem to suffer from some serious confirmation bias. Roethlisberger received a ton of attention over the allegations and he, too, was highly scrutinized in the national media for weeks.

[19Skins72]

Ok, I understand that Cliff Lee left the historically lowly Rangers, so he can re-join the MLB juggernaut known as the Philidelphia Phillies. He thought it was best to go there so he could form the BIG-3, I mean( the BIG-4).

However, I saw none of the American public go stark raving mad like they did with Lebron. The only difference I see in both defections is simple, one is Black, and one is White. Please tell me where I'm going wrong here?

Is this a troll post? Seriously?

Look, assuming you are serious, let me answer your question with my own question: If the "Lebron outrage" was about race, why didn't Americans get "outraged" about ANY other high profile black athlete changing teams?

[Hitman21ST]

Here's something to chew on.

1) Kobe Bryant & Ben Roethlisberger! Here's why the double standard is appalling. Ben was accused of raping 2 women. One which he left with a swollen forehead. We barely heard a peep out of the national media. When It was Kobe, it was the lead story for weeks.

Kobe Bryant vs. Duke Lacrosse.

The WHITE team was accused of raping a BLACK stripper, which ended their season (possibly a national championship season, they were that good), got a good number of players to leave the team and end their college careers, made the coach resign, and started a national controversy. They weren't just proven not guilty, they were proved innocent, that the accuser completely made up her story (which she changed about 5 or 6 times during the controversy.

Kobe admits to having an affair with the hotel employee, is accused of rape, comes to a settlement with Faber, buys his wife a ring, and the country is over it.

How is that fair?

[19Skins72]

Black athletes are largely resented in America outside of the Black community, the rest of the country can't wait for a reason to surface so they can justifiably hate them. Which is really sad.

We have a couple of diehard wing-nuts on these boards that liberally throw around the term libtard at any person that isn't FAR right on the political scale. I guess (hope) they do it for kicks, but you...you seem to actually fill out the very definition of the term.

Keeping that in mind, I hope you post regularly in the political discussions. It will be fun to see you and NavyDave go at it

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Big Ben was suspended. I don't know where you were, but this summer I remember a VERY public outcry over the whole thing. People turned on him bad. I live in Pittsburgh and people here despise him. Every day I hear things like "if he didn't win rings I'd want him gone" or even statements like "Trade him for first rounders and just play Leftwhich because the team is good enough without him." This is IN pittsburgh. Ben is considered a huge, huge douche by his own city. And as has been stated, Kobe was married, which made it a little more shocking to people.

As for Lebron, picture this. You are a mild mannered, average joe. Through incredible luck, you are dating a super model. A ****ing Gissel Bundchen super model. In fact, you're even engaged. You bought her as a respectable rock and are going to get married. One day, you're at home on the couch watching one of her shows. There she comes down the runway, looking as damn good as ever. But the announcers are commenting about a message on her shirt...oh! It says "Dear Joe, we're through!"

I mean, you always knew she was to good to be true. You always knew you didn't give her what she needed and wanted. You always knew she might not marry you. But for ****s sake, did she have to dump you on national television. In consequence, the rest of America feels sorry for you. They never really knew you existed. Most people liked her and loved watching her walk down the runway in her sexy outfits, they didn't even know she was engaged. But breaking up with you on TV? That's ****ed up. And everyone can see it, and everyone feels sorry for you. It's not a race thing.

[fullnelson9999]

I will try to an attention whore like LJ and bump my own post...

After actually looking at the FACTS, I dont know how Parsec2010 or anyone that supports this opinion can continue to argue this.

Have you ever argued with someone who is convinced that all white people are racist? It's not an easy battle. Once the idea is in their heads, it's over.

[Predicto]

This thread is disappointing. There is no comparison between Cliff Lee and Lebron James, for many reasons stated in tons of posts. Lebron was the King of Cleveland, the Hope, the Man, and the way he went out of there was ridiculous. Cliff Lee is an excellent pitcher who has been on many teams and is going back to one where he was before.

There are plenty of real examples of a double standard being applied to black and white athletes. This is not one of them.

The worst part of choosing this lousy example is how it validates all the posters who claim that they and everyone they know is "colorblind" and who claim that there is no double standard at all in sports (or even in America in general. It reinforces their misconception that there is no problem (except maybe the problems of "political correctness" or reverse racism against them).

[thebluefood]

I like how even our posters that are further on the left are calling this guy out.

Seriously, I think this guy is some kind of troll trying to stir the pot. Notice that he seldom addressed any points brought out by anyone responding to him. This guy is troll city. N

[Predicto]

Have you ever argued with someone who is convinced that all white people are racist? It's not an easy battle. Once the idea is in their heads, it's over.

True. It's almost as hard as arguing with straight white men who think that they are the disadvantaged ones.

[fullnelson9999]

I like how even our posters that are further on the left are calling this guy out.

Seriously, I think this guy is some kind of troll trying to stir the pot. Notice that he seldom addressed any points brought out by anyone responding to him. This guy is troll city. N

I don't think this is a "left vs right" issue. It's a "use you ****ing brain" issue.

[thebluefood]

I don't think this is a "left vs right" issue. It's a "use you ****ing brain" issue.

I completely agree, but you know that always seems to play a factor.

I just can't believe that so many people really believe that most, MOST, of the people loathe Lebron just because of his race. Not because he (basically) flipped off the entire city of Cleveland on national T.V. or anyhting. Nope! It's ONLY because he's black.

[Bang]

IMO people dont give a crap about baseball anymore. Im sure if u went on the street and asked 100 people who Cliff Lee was half of them wouldn't have a clue ask them who LeBron is and prob a diff story. JMO tho.

This.

Baseball is last century's news.

No one cares much anymore.

~Bang

[Predicto]

I completely agree, but you know that always seems to play a factor.

I just can't believe that so many people really believe that most, MOST, of the people loathe Lebron just because of his race. Not because he (basically) flipped off the entire city of Cleveland on national T.V. or anyhting. Nope! It's ONLY because he's black.

Actually, to be fair, I think the argument is a little different. They understand why Lebron is hated. What they think is that white athletes rarely get hated as much for doing the same sorts of things. The Bonds/Clemens example is much more telling.

[thebluefood]

This.

Baseball is last century's news.

No one cares much anymore.

~Bang

I don't know if I'd go THAT far, Bang. One thing I know about ESPN is that they will always chase that dollar. Do you think they'd still shell out all that air time and money for baseball if it weren't still generating income.

It's obvious someone's watching it and feels strongly about it.

[Mooney]

The worst part of choosing this lousy example is how it validates all the posters who claim that they and everyone they know is "colorblind" and who claim that there is no double standard at all in sports (or even in America in general. It reinforces their misconception that there is no problem (except maybe the problems of "political correctness" or reverse racism against them).

Nobody said that.

[MattFancy]

IMO people dont give a crap about baseball anymore. Im sure if u went on the street and asked 100 people who Cliff Lee was half of them wouldn't have a clue ask them who LeBron is and prob a diff story. JMO tho.

Which is why the two aren't even close to being comparable. LeBron James is arguably the biggest start in the NBA. To find someone comparable in MLB, you'd have to look at Jeter, A-Rod, or Pujols.

[pjfootballer]

As for Lebron, picture this. You are a mild mannered, average joe. Through incredible luck, you are dating a super model. A ****ing Gissel Bundchen super model. In fact, you're even engaged. You bought her as a respectable rock and are going to get married. One day, you're at home on the couch watching one of her shows. There she comes down the runway, looking as damn good as ever. But the announcers are commenting about a message on her shirt...oh! It says "Dear Joe, we're through!"

I mean, you always knew she was to good to be true. You always knew you didn't give her what she needed and wanted. You always knew she might not marry you. But for ****s sake, did she have to dump you on national television. In consequence, the rest of America feels sorry for you. They never really knew you existed. Most people liked her and loved watching her walk down the runway in her sexy outfits, they didn't even know she was engaged. But breaking up with you on TV? That's ****ed up. And everyone can see it, and everyone feels sorry for you. It's not a race thing.

She left you for Tom Brady!!!

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Last comment before I go play PS3.

I'd like to remind everyone here that "I do not speak for all other sports fans. I certainly don't speak for white people (I'm hispanic)." I only speak for myself as to why I hate Lebron. And let me be honest.

I hated Lebron before the decision. I hate Lebron for the same reason I hate Peyton Manning. I hate that they get crowned the best in the league when in my opinion they are 2nd. Brady and Kobe are way better in my mind.

I hated Lebron ever since people started thinking that he was better than Kobe. I hated Lebron when he started choking in the playoffs and coming up small when his team needed him in the big games, like Peyton. The decision just made it worse in my mind.

She left you for Tom Brady!!!

My first thought was, "who could blame her?"

Then I saw the ugg boots, and now I feel like she may have made a mistake.

[Drew_Fl]

Last comment before I go play PS3.

I'd like to remind everyone here that "I do not speak for all other sports fans. I certainly don't speak for white people (I'm hispanic)." I only speak for myself as to why I hate Lebron. And let me be honest.

I hated Lebron before the decision. I hate Lebron for the same reason I hate Peyton Manning. I hate that they get crowned the best in the league when in my opinion they are 2nd. Brady and Kobe are way better in my mind.

I hated Lebron ever since people started thinking that he was better than Kobe. I hated Lebron when he started choking in the playoffs and coming up small when his team needed him in the big games, like Peyton. The decision just made it worse in my mind.

My first thought was, "who could blame her?"

Then I saw the ugg boots, and now I feel like she may have made a mistake.

i agree with these assessments of brady/manning and elbron/kobe.

cliff lee turned down NYY money and instead went with the phillies. everyone's used to the yankees getting everything so it's a surprise. elbron turned down cleveland. yes, cleveland. they are no NYY...

[Mr. Sinister]

Last comment before I go play PS3.

I'd like to remind everyone here that "I do not speak for all other sports fans. I certainly don't speak for white people (I'm hispanic)." I only speak for myself as to why I hate Lebron. And let me be honest.

I hated Lebron before the decision. I hate Lebron for the same reason I hate Peyton Manning. I hate that they get crowned the best in the league when in my opinion they are 2nd. Brady and Kobe are way better in my mind.

I hated Lebron ever since people started thinking that he was better than Kobe. I hated Lebron when he started choking in the playoffs and coming up small when his team needed him in the big games, like Peyton. The decision just made it worse in my mind.

I hate(d) Lebron because he is a great player, and a poor sportsman, and because he loves to surround himself with Yes men, people who tell him what he wants to hear, not what he needs to hear. Deep down I'm sure he's a humble, nice guy, but he has to learn how to be a better professional. Hopefully some of Dwyane Wade's leadership qualities will rub off on him.

[Monte51Coleman]

I hate(d) Lebron because he is a great player, and a poor sportsman, and because he loves to surround himself with Yes men, people who tell him what he wants to hear, not what he needs to hear. Deep down I'm sure he's a humble, nice guy, but he has to learn how to be a better professional. Hopefully some of Dwyane Wade's leadership qualities will rub off on him.

I think that deep down he is an *******. The only difference to me is that now he is my *******.