The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[StillUnknown]

[Zazzaro703]

I didn't see anything last night that would have me believe the Pacers can beat this Wizards team 4 times. The only problem the wizards have is closing games out which is probably going to cost them a game or two, but they have done it all this playoffs so far. Gotten early leads and rode them to the end, come back from 10+ points, won an OT game. It's fantastic and exciting to watch. They should have blown the Pacers out of the gym last night but a win is a win.

[Warhead36]

Our only weaknesses have been the 3rd quarter and FT shooting.

[No Excuses]

I disagree. 

 

You put Blatche on a veteran-laden team and he'd contribute.  Asking him to lead, which the Wizards did, was a mistake.  I don't think they botched his development because he could have been a better player had the environment been different.  Plus, he's a LATE 2nd round pick who is almost 10 years in the league. 

 

McGee - still a goof and never reached his potential.  Would you say that the Nuggets have botched his development?  He couldn't even get minutes over Mozov or Koufous. 

 

Young - he is what he is.  Inefficient chucker who puts up meaningless stats on bad teams.  He's the same player now as he was back for the Wizards. 

 

Crawford - 5 teams in 5 years, or something along those lines?  Says a lot. 

 

Seraphin/Singleton - meh...

 

Ves - Bust and should have never been picked where he was.  Still the same guy in Denver. 

 

Booker - key rotational player who is finding his niche right now. 

 

Bottom line, for where a lot of these guys were picked (16 and later), I'm not sure what you can expect.  This organization was a mess up until we rid ourselves of the knuckleheads on the roster.  There wasn't a good enough structure in place for guys like Blatche to carve out a role on the team.  It is what it is.  If you're putting all your resources into trying to bring along guys like Ves and it doesn't work out, then so be it.  Guys are busts for reasons. 

 

As far as Porter...I'm more than confident that the team is taking the right approach with him.  After reading Michael Lee's article on Ariza yesterday, I'm 80% sure that he's going back to the West Coast.  I think Porter knows what's at stake and what he needs to do to contribute next year.  We can revisit this next year and see if it is a case of botched development or the team knowing what it's doing. 

 

These players end up as busts and journeymen around the league because they never got the proper training, environment and coaching that was necessary when they entered the league and joined our squad. NBA teams don't have the resources to devote to players who were talented when they came in but never developed on their initial teams. Every player we drafted outside of Wall and Beal is essentially a bum, save for maybe Blatche who may have found a role in BKN.

 

Not even getting one of them to develop into a role player for this team is absolutely horrible. This is symptomatic of a team that does not understand how to use the necessary resources for role player development. You can count Trevor Booker if you'd like but he is not a guy who should be the first big of the bench. He's a hustle player who offers very little else where, defensively or offensively. He's mostly in this role because we can't afford a better option (which again is a reflection of poor cap management).

Edited May 6, 2014 by No Excuses

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

 

 

KILL BEAL AKA BABY JESUS SHUTTLESWORTH!!!!

[RonArtest15]

These players end up as busts and journeymen around the league because they never got the proper training, environment and coaching that was necessary when they entered the league and joined our squad. NBA teams don't have the resources to devote to players who were talented when they came in but never developed on their initial teams. Every player we drafted outside of Wall and Beal is essentially a bum, save for maybe Blatche who may have found a role in BKN.

 

Not even getting one of them to develop into a role player for this team is absolutely horrible. This is symptomatic of a team that does not understand how to use the necessary resources for role player development. You can count Trevor Booker if you'd like but he is not a guy who should be the first big of the bench. He's a hustle player who offers very little else where, defensively or offensively. He's mostly in this role because we can't afford a better option (which again is a reflection of poor cap management).

 

I don't buy the botched development angle specifically since many of these guys are the same players on other teams.  For as immature as Blatche was, he was also a product of the environment.  I really do think he would thrive on this current Wizards team.  You need a the right mix of youth and veteran leadership, and we have it.  It took a while, but we're there now. 

 

Booker, was the 23rd overall pick and is a key rotational player.  I'm not sure what else more you want out of him or for the team to have done.  I don't care at all about whether or not he's the 6th man or 10th guy on the bench. If you were drafted as late as him in the 1st round and have found your niche in the league 5 years in the league, then someone has developed you properly. 

[No Excuses]

I don't buy the botched development angle specifically since many of these guys are the same players on other teams.  For as immature as Blatche was, he was also a product of the environment.  I really do think he would thrive on this current Wizards team.  You need a the right mix of youth and veteran leadership, and we have it.  It took a while, but we're there now. 

 

Booker, was the 23rd overall pick and is a key rotational player.  I'm not sure what else more you want out of him or for the team to have done.  I don't care at all about whether or not he's the 6th man or 10th guy on the bench. If you were drafted as late as him in the 1st round and have found your niche in the league 5 years in the league, then someone has developed you properly. 

 

Every other team left in the playoffs has better big men coming of the bench than Booker. Just because a team has bad enough depth to make you a key rotational player, does not mean you were developed properly. And that is exactly the problem with this team. It is built on a really poor foundation. Aging veterans who are past their prime and maxed out on salaries.

 

I really hope as a fan base we don't lose sight of the bigger picture. We have two great pieces in Wall and Beal and the last thing we need to do is pull an Atlanta Hawks and become the perennial 2nd round exit team because we gave bad contracts to veteran role players and never allowed financial flexibility for taking the next step.

[JWB]

Every other team left in the playoffs has better big men coming of the bench than Booker. Just because a team has bad enough depth to make you a key rotational player, does not mean you were developed properly. And that is exactly the problem with this team. It is built on a really poor foundation. Aging veterans who are past their prime and maxed out on salaries.

I really hope as a fan base we don't lose sight of the bigger picture. We have two great pieces in Wall and Beal and the last thing we need to do is pull an Atlanta Hawks and become the perennial 2nd round exit team because we gave bad contracts to veteran role players and never allowed financial flexibility for taking the next step.

And this means not signing Ariza to some ridiculous contract. Yes he has been playing at a higher level this season but with Otto and even Webster getting more minutes we can replace his production. Love the guy now though

[Captain James]

That 1st quarter though... blocked shots, 3-pointers, high intensity... a playoff dream! 

[Popeman38]

And this means not signing Ariza to some ridiculous contract. Yes he has been playing at a higher level this season but with Otto and even Webster getting more minutes we can replace his production. Love the guy now though

No, we can't. Ariza is an elite defender. He can handle a 6' PG in Augustine or a 6'9" SF like George. You can't "replace" that with Webster in any way, shape, or form. Webster can shoot, and that is it. The sample size with Porter is too small to project, but there is a chance he can be Ariza in 3-4 years. If Ariza is savvy, which he seems to be, he knows he needs to be a spot shooter that a PG can drive and dish to and not the primary scorer on a team (he tried that in Houston). If he wants to get paid, he can take the best offer and avg 20 & 10 on a bad team. Or he can take a little less to play a role on a good team.

[RonArtest15]

Every other team left in the playoffs has better big men coming of the bench than Booker. Just because a team has bad enough depth to make you a key rotational player, does not mean you were developed properly. And that is exactly the problem with this team. It is built on a really poor foundation. Aging veterans who are past their prime and maxed out on salaries.

 

I really hope as a fan base we don't lose sight of the bigger picture. We have two great pieces in Wall and Beal and the last thing we need to do is pull an Atlanta Hawks and become the perennial 2nd round exit team because we gave bad contracts to veteran role players and never allowed financial flexibility for taking the next step.

 

I'd maybe put stock in to that, but we have good depth in our 2nd unit.  Not every team is going to have a Jamal Crawford or Taj Gibson coming in to be a spark.  For what we have, our unit is just fine.  The bench is not a weakness of this team.  There was more than one occasion that the play of Gooden, Miller, etc. carried the team to wins during the regular season.

 

To your second point, I don't think anyone in their right mind wants this team to be Atlanta 2.0.  THere is too much talent on this squad between Beal and Wall to let that happen.  We just need some faith in the FO to do what's right and try to build off of this year.  This run will come to an end at some point because as it stands, we are not a championship caliber team.  However, we can get to that point by having the FO make the right decisions going forward. 

 

I know many of us have been beaten down by this franchise.  We're a battered fanbase.  However, everything about the direction of the team as of now, seems right. 

 

For all the naysayers about the Ariza/Okafor trade, it worked out.

 

For all the naysayers about brining in Gortat, it worked out.

 

For all the naysayers about how Beal was being brought along, it's working out.

 

etc.

 

Times are changing for DC bball.  I have no doubts in my mind. 

[Warhead36]

I think Blatche's development may have been botched somewhat, but Young and McGee are clowns and will continue to be clowns. You can't turn water into wine.

[Going Commando]

Let's slow down a bit, he's a very good shooter and is a pretty good penetrator but he is not eclipsing Durant or LeBron.

I don't see an MVP either. But Beal isn't in LeBron's generation and KD is five years ahead. LeBron's career might be over by the time Beal hits 26 or 27--the front end of his prime. Durant will probably be starting to decline by then too. Beal isn't going to be competing with them for accolades.

Look at the guys around him for his competition. Lillard and Davis and Drummond from his own class. But then Lillard is actually older than Wall. Kyrie Irving from the year before. And then a whole lot of mediocrity from the year after.

Honestly, I see Durant and LeBron running the MVP discussion for the next two seasons, maybe three. Then a LeBron decline and Anthony Davis entering the discussion. A couple years of that, with maybe an odd year where somebody like Blake Griffin or John Wall has a great year with a lot of team success and they get an MVP. And then a Durant decline. And then it'll largely come down to Davis vs the stars of this crop of draft talent: Wiggins / Embiid or some of these guards. I think at least one bonafide perennial MVP candidate coming out of this year's draft.

And I definitely don't think it's Jabari Parker...

IMO, Beal and Wall were the best perimeter players in their draft classes. That's their competition. When those draft classes reach their prime years, we can probably expect Wall and Beal to be among the three or four best players at their position--accounting for holdovers from earlier classes, late bloomers, and quick developers from future classes. But I think it'll be better than that. I think Wall and Beal are each going to be the best player at their position when they hit their mid to late 20's.

 

Only Rajon Rondo.  He's an elite defender.

He's a great defender. But he can't do the things on defense that Wall does. There are probably a few stopper specialist guys that can do what Wall does on defense. But there aren't any other two way PGs of Wall's stature doing the things that he does on the defensive end.

The only two way guy I can see playing D like Wall down the line is Michael Carter Williams. But that dude is already 22.

Wall is a unique talent. If we have a future MVP candidate, it's him.

[No Excuses]

I'd maybe put stock in to that, but we have good depth in our 2nd unit.  Not every team is going to have a Jamal Crawford or Taj Gibson coming in to be a spark.  For what we have, our unit is just fine.  The bench is not a weakness of this team.  There was more than one occasion that the play of Gooden, Miller, etc. carried the team to wins during the regular season.

 

To your second point, I don't think anyone in their right mind wants this team to be Atlanta 2.0.  THere is too much talent on this squad between Beal and Wall to let that happen.  We just need some faith in the FO to do what's right and try to build off of this year.  This run will come to an end at some point because as it stands, we are not a championship caliber team.  However, we can get to that point by having the FO make the right decisions going forward. 

 

I know many of us have been beaten down by this franchise.  We're a battered fanbase.  However, everything about the direction of the team as of now, seems right. 

 

For all the naysayers about the Ariza/Okafor trade, it worked out.

 

For all the naysayers about brining in Gortat, it worked out.

 

For all the naysayers about how Beal was being brought along, it's working out.

 

etc.

 

Times are changing for DC bball.  I have no doubts in my mind. 

 

Resigning Ariza and Gortat to cap crippling deals is exactly what ensures that we end up as Atlanta Hawks 2.0. 

 

We invested a top 3 pick in Otto Porter. Treat him like a top 3 pick and bank on your faith in him when he was drafted that high. We drafted him because we KNEW Ariza would be gone this year. Heck, we almost traded Ariza for the corpse of Caron Butler (the Grunfeld special). Now we should resign him to a multi-year deal for getting hot at the right time? That's exactly what got him his old contract which he inevitably did not live up to. We would be foolish to make the same mistake.

 

Otto was supposed to be the most complete player in the draft. He didn't just forget his skills from Georgetown. The money we save from letting Ariza walk can be spent on someone like Patrick Patterson who would give us that much needed stretch 4 and a viable replacement for Nene when he inevitably misses games.

 

I think Otto has a higher ceiling than what Ariza offers anyways. Otto can space the floor as well as Ariza and he can also pass or shoot from midrange. Long term we are potentially much better of by heavily investing development time for Porter.

Edited May 6, 2014 by No Excuses

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Nobody has been harder on Wall than I have been. But he has worked his ass off and turned himself into a basketball player. He was an athlete playing basketball before this season. And now he just needs to get better every year.

 

What do you think the Wizards' championship tee shirts are going to look like?

 

(I'm obviously just having fun with that, but I really do think that they are going to beat the Pacers in 6. And they are - in theory - the kind of team that can give the Heat fits. I don't think they can beat the Heat, but they can force them to play 6 or so really uncomfortable games).

[JoeWolf990]

great win last night.

The way Beal stepped it up in that 4th was eye opening. Lets ride this wave until it falls off.

Wall still hasnt had a great game yet either.

[Ozymandias]

God I love the way Wall plays defense. I don't care that he's missing shots as long as he is setting people up and playing terrific defense. He's so underrated As a defender.

[Chachie]

Resigning Ariza and Gortat to cap crippling deals is exactly what ensures that we end up as Atlanta Hawks 2.0. 

 

 

 

It's a tough spot to be in but to lose Gortat is to lose. Period. That guy is the heart and the hustle. In my mind it's not even debatable what he means to this team from here on until he's done. 

 

Ariza is not a must-have moving forward but Otto won't mature fast enough to "replace" him. Tough adjustment there.

[RonArtest15]

We cannot let Gortat walk.  You can't let him walk at the expense of a Kevin Durant 2016 pipe dream.  He means entirely too much to the team with his ability to play pick & roll, leadership, and toughness.  Hopefully we can get him to come back on a 3 year contract.  He's a key piece to this team's future. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

What makes the Wizards special right now is their backcourt and having two bigs who can play. Nene is an injury waiting to happen, but he's not going anywhere for a while. So, I think you have to keep Gortat.

 

Ariza has been unbelievable, but I have to think he is more replaceable than Gortat. And I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to be tied up in a long, expensive contract to him in 18 months if he regresses (which he's done before).

 

The Wizards don't have a ton of flexibility unfortunately.

[CRobi21]

I can't think of a better example for the laziness that the Pacers are playing with.

 

Everyone stopped. If even one player bothers trying, it's a jump ball or contested shot for Nene.

 

Noticed the same thing last night. It's a night and day difference after playing a team like the Bulls who were all hustle. Especially noticeable in the rebounding. Most of the time Hibbert and their other bigs don't even jump lol. It will be a walk in the park for our guys getting rebounds, compared to round 1. 

 

It actually seemed like CHI's attitude rubbed off a bit on us. Not that we didn't hustle before, but CHI showed us what it's gonna take to rebound effectively in the playoffs. So thanks CHI.

[@DCGoldPants]

one of the few times I agree with Kevin on the Sports Fix. He said that this team is built perfectly for Ariza. While he might want to go back west to be near his family, teams without a situation at least somewhat like Washington with their lineup, his production will be different.

 

I'd love him back, but am not holding my breath. 

[Destino]

The wizards couldn't run the pick n roll with McGee, Seraphin, Okafor, or Nene. It was all sadness and hook shots with McGee and Seraphin. All pick and pop with Okafor and Nene. People were wondering if it was a problem with Wall lacking patience as it fit right in with the narrative that he played too fast. Well Gortat showed up and they instantly had a PnR game to the rim, though Nene still isn't taking to it. He's also the only good rebounding big on the team. Getting rid of Gortat changes a lot for the Wizards and without a sure replacement I think it would be a big time mistake.

This is the part where we all grumble about not drafting Nerlens Noel.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Destino

[Destino]

*Beal with it gif*

Is that big lady in red repping the wizards or simply too big for those yellow tshirts? I like that you get a good shot of Bird, looking miserable, behind Beal after the shot.

[Sticksboi05]

I don't see an MVP either. But Beal isn't in LeBron's generation and KD is five years ahead. LeBron's career might be over by the time Beal hits 26 or 27--the front end of his prime. Durant will probably be starting to decline by then too. Beal isn't going to be competing with them for accolades.

 

 

The original poster said he might win an MVP within 2-3 years.  So within the time frame I was replying to, yes, he would be their competition.  Which is why it was insane.