JLC- Holmgren on Campbell: 'Have Some Patience

[Bang]

That part is definitely true. The only thing is, the FO still seemed as if they didn't show any patience with Campbell. You're right, they had to hire a coach, but they need to also notice that Campbell had to start over again. Yet, they figured it'd be easier to go after every QB they saw.

Well, fact is QBs with Cutler's ability rarely come available out of the blue like that. If you have a question at Qb which we do, you'd be foolish to not explore what it would take. I can't blame them.

Sanchez, who knows how much of that was smoke and how much had meat..

I agree with the overall sentiment of Holmgren, and I do think that Campbell deserves to be able to prove himself this year. And it does look as though everyone is getting back on the same page, and the water has passed beneath the bridge. (Except around here.)

I like your gear in the sig, by the way. Cool hat

~Bang

[bubba9497]

What does that fat Walrus know about QB's?

all he's ever coach where losers like Montana, Young, Favre, Hasselbeck, Brunell

and some of the coaches under him like Reid, Rhodes, Green, Sherman, and Zorn

what a bum

[Weapon X]

How did the legendary Bret Favre do in his new system with the Jets? ... His qb rating was less than Campbell's. Give the guy one more chance this season.

[ttr77]

What does that fat Walrus know about QB's?

all he's ever coach where losers like Montana, Young, Favre, Hasselbeck, Brunell

and some of the coaches under him like Reid, Rhodes, Green, Sherman, and Zorn

what a bum

Agreed. He certainly did coach some great QBs.

Not sure the relevance to this statement though...he ain't exactly coaching here.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Homgren took a LOT of **** for having patience with Hasselbeck, so he can probably relate to what's going on with Zorn and Campbell.

[knowledge316]

Understood but we can at least agree that three years does not tell you everything you need to know about QB. Campbell didn't play his first season so that doesn't count. He played the last couple of games of his second season and he was hurt 3/4 of the way through the third. So I don't think you can measure Campbell against a 5 year rule.

I agree with you that sometimes you can't know everything about a QB within 3 years. But that's how it is in the NFL, most teams won't stick with developing a QB after 3 years.

This is it for JC. As everyone thinks its "put up or shut up" for JC this season.

In order for the FO to give him a new contract, he has to put up numbers around: 3400+ yards 20+ TDs and <14 ints. If he puts up similar numbers to last season, he's just going to be a backup.

[Passizle]

Eli was actually taking his team to the playoffs pretty much every year. When a QB does that, you don't get rid off him. Rodgers was backing up Favre, and this was his 1st year starting. Garrard replaced Leftwich. It's not like Jags felt Garrard was their QB until Leftwich started sucking. Dellhomme also took the team to the superbowl. Delhomme actually played well his first 4 years with Panthers. So what's your point about Delhomme? As for Orton/Grossman situation, maybe that's one real case. Bulger, he's been hurt the past couple years, but prior to that, his numbers are really good. Vince Young, well the Titans benched him last season and Collins is still the starter, so I don't think they waited 5 years on him.

I would disagree with the Eli thng. I think the Giants were making the playoffs DESPITE poor play from Eli. Lets be honest here. Tiki took that team to the playoffs. That and a solid defense with that guy... oyu know... the guy with the gap... Strahan. You know the one with the single season sack record? Eli and the HC were on thin ice... and had they failed in 2007, they woul both be with different teams today.

And the one thing Campbell bashers never really take into account is the whole stability thing... its real. ALL thoseQB's you have mntioned had it .Its tangiable... you cant deny it or call it an "excuse".

[Monte51Coleman]

What does that fat Walrus know about QB's?

all he's ever coach where losers like Montana, Young, Favre, Hasselbeck, Brunell

and some of the coaches under him like Reid, Rhodes, Green, Sherman, and Zorn

what a bum

But, bubba, he didn't really mean it. He was just doing his boy a solid.

[Art]

I'm sure Vinny had some say in the hiring of these coaches. And this exemplifies the lack of a true vision at Redskins Park:

Norv - Offensive minded

Schott - Ball control

Spurrier - Chuck and duck

Gibbs - Ball control

Zorn - WCO hybrid

So, instead of building on what the previous coach started, they have decided to start ALL over with a new system each time, which required a new style of player to match it.

There are tons of examples of new coaches coming in with new systems, new players, and new QBs and being IMMEDIATELY successful EVERY SINGLE SEASON.

Yet, here in Redskinland...'Patience' is the key word.

Vinny had no say in Norv. He was terminated under Marty. Spurrier was a no-brainer. Gibbs was a no-brainer. Certainly with Zorn he has a say and he is a coach who fits with Cerrato's pre-Skins background with the WCO. Typically when you get rid of one coach and one style you convert to an entirely different one.

With Zorn we did this halfway, as we kept the defense, but lost the offense.

[Taylor 36]

I think the problem is that we all got spoiled by Gibbs I where were just dominant. .

It has been almost two decades since Gibbs left the first time. Even before Snyder, we sucked. There is NO ONE alive that is spoiled in any way shape or form by this team.

Redskins fans have been patient for more than 15 years now. Patience hasn't done squat for the fans, and it won't do anything for this team except deliver us another mediocre 8-8, 7-9 record next year.

[bubba9497]

Agreed. He certainly did coach some great QBs.

Not sure the relevance to this statement though...he ain't exactly coaching here.

the credibility of his opinion on the subject uf developing a NFL QB

[ttr77]

the credibility of his opinion on the subject uf developing a NFL QB

I guess we're screwed then, because the people making the decisions here disagree with him.

[Jim Bob]

I guess we're screwed then, because the people making the decisions here disagree with him.

The big question is how patient can a team afford to be with a QB?

I agree that they should bring him back for 2009 given that he was in Year 1 under Zorn last season.

But, with his pending UFA status, what do you do if he doesn't improve this season and looks about the same as last year?

That is what makes this situation very tricky.

[ttr77]

The big question is how patient can a team afford to be with a QB?

I agree that they should bring him back for 2009 given that he was in Year 1 under Zorn last season.

But, with his pending UFA status, what do you do if he doesn't improve this season and looks about the same as last year?

That is what makes this situation very tricky.

I think they need to open up the competition in camp and give the starting position to whoever earns it.

[Jim Bob]

I think they need to open up the competition in camp and give the starting position to whoever earns it.

I don't see anyone on this roster that can take the spot away from JC this year.

Collins is too old and Brennan isn't ready yet and Chase is camp fodder/practice squad material.

[Veretax]

Holmgren developed a guy by the name of Brett Favre, and worked with Steve Young when he was in SF I believe.

[mnb123]

I think they need to open up the competition in camp and give the starting position to whoever earns it.

campbell has always excelled in camp so he would be a shoo-in if thats the case

[1972FAN]

I guess we're screwed then, because the people making the decisions here disagree with him.

No, ONLY Jason Campbell can screw himself, he has been given all the oportunities, to include this year. If He fails, the Captain (campbell) and the Coach (Zorn) go down with the ship.

Never seizes to amaze me the links people and the beat writers go on this site to plead how great Campbell is and he needs more time. But clearly Flacco and Ryan and countless others over the years were thrown in worst situations and made out, without excuses..

I'm on board with Campbell, but if he faulters its his fault and nobody elses given the time, the tools and the chance to perform.

Enough of the "woe is me threads"~

[The Sisko]

This is simply so dimwitted and out of touch as to be embarrassing. Vinny has had a key role in providing players to fit various systems over the years in a way that has been more successful than lacking. While Archuleta and Lloyd wrankle, players like Washington, Portis, Moss, Thomas, Rabach, Griffin, Fletcher, Springs, etc., etc., are those who have fit well with what various coaching staffs have asked for.

Vinny has had to adjust over the years to find players first to fit Norv, then to fit Spurrier, then to fit Gibbs and now to fit Zorn. He's adjusted the grading system and done a generally solid job of acquiring players to fit those systems. The players, especially defensively, have performed at a very high level for years. Our offensive players have always trailed, though some have individually played well.

Ahhh, classic Art. So opinionated, so abrasive, so staunchly pro-Snyderatto, and yet....so very wrong.

Most, if not all of the players you mention above are products of the Gibbs/Williams regime. That includes the hits, like CPo as well as the misses, like B. Lloyd. I'm on record as saying Gibbs wasn't the best at evaluating talent, but he did do a better job than Snyderatto. Come back with an evaluation limited to the players brought in pre and post Gibbs 2.0 and you'll see an entirely different picture that includes more Trung Candidates and Justin Tryons than Albert Haynesworths and Carlos Rogers.

At this point, I think it's safe to say we know what Snyderatto is capable of. He/they tend not to whiff in the first two rounds but won't bring in much of anything after that. To complicate matters, Snyderatto's record with F.A. acquisitions is mixed.

I've been here almost as long as you have and we've had this same debate over and over again, ad-nauseum. I think that, in and of itself is profoundly instructive. If Snyderatto knew what they were doing or had markedly improved, we'd know it by now and wouldn't be having this conversation. They're capable of delivering 7 or 8 win seasons much of the time, spiced up with the occasional first round paloff loss or 6-10 season. That's all. Period.

I've often suggested patience with JC. However if he continues to be very average throughout the upcoming season, I'll be willing to say with a decent degree of confidence that he's just not going to be able to cut it as a starter. How much more mediocrity will it take for you to come to the same conclusion about Snyderatto?

[KokoMike]

Yet the Campbell bashers continue to think we make "excuses" for Campbell. :doh: Patience is the key.

The future is now. You may look at that thought as impatience, or bashing someone for infamously unrealized potential, but I make the comment from a basis of expectation.

Perhaps my expectation of great play from Campbell is unreasonable.

[The Sisko]

The future is now....

Soooo how'd that work out for us the last time? :doh:

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I find it funny that the topic of Campbell sparks so much debate NOW. I understood back when we would debate Sanchez vs. Campbell or Cutler vs. Campbell...

However, he's going to be our QB in 2009 and his contract is up after 2009. Therefore, the play on the field will determine the future at the QB position. Period. The FO is in a situation where it doesn't even really have to exhibit patience or faith at this point...

Campbell plays well = contract extension or franchise tag

Campbell plays poorly = free agent

If it's something right down the middle, I suppose there would need to be a decision made. But in that case it might be possible to sign him to a modest contract and have him compete for the job as I wouldn't expect teams to be offering him 10s of millions of dollars based on a season like 2008.

So, all in all, we can move onto other topics (in fact, I hear there's a 400-pound man in Ashburn these days) since there really isn't any need to debate Campbell until he starts playing in August.

[skinsdude]

The future is now. You may look at that thought as impatience, or bashing someone for infamously unrealized potential, but I make the comment from a basis of expectation.

Perhaps my expectation of great play from Campbell is unreasonable.

You're expectations are not unreasonable at all. What is unreasonable is the Campbell apologists who feel that any criticism is unwarranted.

[SWFLSkins]

Is he talking to the fanbase or the front office?

Hopefully both and that both are hearing him.

[ntotoro]

You're expectations are not unreasonable at all. What is unreasonable is the Campbell apologists who feel that any criticism is unwarranted.

Now, now, now... it's only fair to criticize Campbell after he has three seasons in an Offense where the O-Line is perfect, never misses a block, his WR's run perfect routes on every single play and we have an all-world RB who gets 2,000 ever year to keep Defenses honest. Only then is it fair to judge Campbell.