JLC- Holmgren on Campbell: 'Have Some Patience

[gobigred]

What does Holmgren really know about quarterbacks if he doesn't think that Jason is a loser?

Well, I don't know why don't you ask Joe Montana, Brett Farve, and Jim Hasselback. Since he trained all three of them. What he is trying to say is the west coast system takes some time to learn and Jim Zorn will teach him up and knows what he is doing. Do you really believe Jason is a loser or our front office has not given him the tools to win. For example, a good OL, Good recievers and consistant stability in the coaching.

[Vicious]

I am the Extremeskins message board. I know more than Mike Holmgren.

[gobigred]

I guess Holmgren knows so much because he worked with JC so much in the past...

(he has MAYBE...MAYBE...MAYBE, studied some film on Campbell, but stating we need patience is moot, he is going to be our starter this season...and probably not next.

How about he knows Jason because he had to watch film on him to prepare for games against us and sees he can make all the throws. He has worked with Jim Zorns and knows Zorn is going to make him good because he is a teacher first then coach.

[DGREENHULK]

Is he talking to the fanbase or the front office?

Both

[gobigred]

do you want Danny to go out now and give JC a new contract?

I believe he should get at least 2 more years thats including this season.

[ttr77]

I believe he should get at least 2 more years thats including this season.

Why would he sign a one-year extension? And why would the team offer it without seeing what he does in the coming season?

[DieselPwr44]

I believe he should get at least 2 more years thats including this season.

Hell make it ten?

Do i hear 12??

[gobigred]

Eli was actually taking his team to the playoffs pretty much every year. When a QB does that, you don't get rid off him. Rodgers was backing up Favre, and this was his 1st year starting. Garrard replaced Leftwich. It's not like Jags felt Garrard was their QB until Leftwich started sucking. Dellhomme also took the team to the superbowl. Delhomme actually played well his first 4 years with Panthers. So what's your point about Delhomme? As for Orton/Grossman situation, maybe that's one real case. Bulger, he's been hurt the past couple years, but prior to that, his numbers are really good. Vince Young, well the Titans benched him last season and Collins is still the starter, so I don't think they waited 5 years on him.

Yea, but Eli has had the same coach since he has been in the pros

[Stophovr6]

I don't agree to two years. If he turns it on this season, long term, if not, bye bye.

[corrupt3d]

I guess Holmgren knows so much because he worked with JC so much in the past...

(he has MAYBE...MAYBE...MAYBE, studied some film on Campbell, but stating we need patience is moot, he is going to be our starter this season...and probably not next.

IIRC, he and Zorn talked at great lengths about Campbell back in 2005, when Zorn really liked Campbell at the combine.

[The Sisko]

Well, the future is now years were pretty good. In those seven years, we had a winning record in all seven, and we played in seven playoff games, won the NFC Championship, and went to the Super Bowl. In the year before Allen came, we had a losing record and he turned it around in the first year, going 9-4-1. Defense improved from 21st to 4th in his first year, and it was in the top 11 every year, with most of those years in the top five. Offense improved from 11th to 6th, 7th and 4th.

In 1974, we had the #4 offense and the #4 defense. We went 10-4 three of the seven years, and 11-3 once.

It was a great run.

Not since 1945 had the Redskins had 7 consecutive winning years, nor have we had 7 straight winning seasons since.

When Allen took over, we had only 1 winning season in the previous 15 years.

Thanks for shoving my comment about high expectations down my throat. It gave me an opportunity to reflect on Redskin greatness, an age of impatience.

Sooo, how are these patient years going for you?

Sure it was a great run. However, you can't honestly expect me to believe that trading away a team's first round draft picks years out is a good idea. Allen had the success he did based on his skills as a coach. We'll never know but I'd suspect we'd have had similar success if he'd simply drafted players instead of going with the over the hill gang. It might have taken an extra year or two to get there but Allen could coach and I have no doubts that we'd have eventually had great success.

The problem is that after Allen's tenure, we were left with an old team and few draft picks. In other words, we were primed for a long dry spell of failure. In spite of ourselves, we got lucky. Beathard drafted well in the late rounds and found a coach that could get a lot out of less talented players. If either of those things had worked out differently, you wouldn't think nearly as positively about the Allen years as you do.

But if you still think that's a good idea, there's a couple of great experiments going on up in Chicago and to a lesser degree NY. See how Cutler and Sanchez do without much of a team surrounding them and then come back and tell me how viable the old "The future is now" strategy looks.

Oh and for the record, our true years of greatness came under a coach that believed in patience as opposed to gladly paying for two hamburgers tomorrow in exchange for one today.

[brianm23]

Yet the Campbell bashers continue to think we make "excuses" for Campbell. :doh: Patience is the key.

NO. Performance is.

[ttr77]

NO. Performance is.

Agreed.

There is not a single person in the entire football world, including Holmgren, that knows how the JC story will turn out. Patience is nice and all, but only if it leads to success.

[Rocky52Mc]

Agreed.

There is not a single person in the entire football world, including Holmgren, that knows how the JC story will turn out. Patience is nice and all, but only if it leads to success.

I'd say that over 80% of the time success is formed form patience and consistency. Hard to argue with that. Success is usually never instant, and if it is it's usually in the form of flares and bright lights that go out pretty quick. Once JC shows that he can perform well for 16 games and be a true leader (this is his shot) then he'll get rewarded, but right now there's nothing that can happen to change that. We all know what's going down this season, and my money is on Jason to succeed.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Hell make it ten?

Do i hear 12??

depends on whether hes a master. but 32 more starts doesnt seem out of the question. lol

[LizKauai]

How about we try this:

Everyone think only good thoughts and say nice things about all the Redskins from now until the season starts.

Replace every urge to scream with a compliment. Practice hard until you can sincerely FEEL POSITIVE ABOUT THE REDSKINS - no matter what.

What could it hurt?

Not the team and certainly not ourselves.

BELIEVE the Redskins will have a WINNING SEASON and ACT like they WILL.

[usapatriot]

2 1/2 years I've had patience. I'm sick of having patience. I just don't think JC can be the QB we need him to be. I hope JC proves me wrong but I doubt it.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

Off the record:

Holmgren: "Well, the Redskins are stuck with Campbell because nobody else wants him. I hope it works out for my friend Jim."

j/k

[DCDiesel44]

When Holmgren says, "Have some patience..." I hope he means give him one more year. This being his fifth season and second with the same system, its a make or break year for Campbell. I don't know about anyone else but my expectations are getting higher as the regular season is approaching, we'll meet those expectations depending on injuries and the play of our starting quarterback.

[alwaysaskin]

Ok, if Holmgren's assessment on JC is so correct, what does it say about the fact that Danny was so set on trying to replace him?

You trust Danny over Holmgren?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Superbowls Holmgren has a ring as a HC, he developed Favre, Hasselbeck (the good one), and others

Danny thought Jeff George was a good idea

[Vicious]

NO. Performance is.

Performance comes with patience. You can't figure that out, that is why you are not a winner in the NFL. It's the same reason neither is Daniel Snyder. One wild card win in a decade? Disgusting.

[Art]

Ahhh, classic Art. So opinionated, so abrasive, so staunchly pro-Snyderatto, and yet....so very wrong.

Most, if not all of the players you mention above are products of the Gibbs/Williams regime. That includes the hits, like CPo as well as the misses, like B. Lloyd. I'm on record as saying Gibbs wasn't the best at evaluating talent, but he did do a better job than Snyderatto. Come back with an evaluation limited to the players brought in pre and post Gibbs 2.0 and you'll see an entirely different picture that includes more Trung Candidates and Justin Tryons than Albert Haynesworths and Carlos Rogers.

At this point, I think it's safe to say we know what Snyderatto is capable of. He/they tend not to whiff in the first two rounds but won't bring in much of anything after that. To complicate matters, Snyderatto's record with F.A. acquisitions is mixed.

I've been here almost as long as you have and we've had this same debate over and over again, ad-nauseum. I think that, in and of itself is profoundly instructive. If Snyderatto knew what they were doing or had markedly improved, we'd know it by now and wouldn't be having this conversation. They're capable of delivering 7 or 8 win seasons much of the time, spiced up with the occasional first round paloff loss or 6-10 season. That's all. Period.

I've often suggested patience with JC. However if he continues to be very average throughout the upcoming season, I'll be willing to say with a decent degree of confidence that he's just not going to be able to cut it as a starter. How much more mediocrity will it take for you to come to the same conclusion about Snyderatto?

Only a man incapable of vision would blindly suggest all the good and bad that came under Gibbs and Williams was because of Gibbs and Williams. Both men made a major impact on our organization, but, when it came to judging talent and weighing in on that talent, the eye they used was Vinny's. The eyes he used were his scouts.

To even suggest Gibbs and Williams were the personnel people under Gibbs is misleading. While Gibbs was the hub of the universe, we saw with his coaching, he was the coordinating, overarching influence, but, didn't do much of the detailed legwork in many areas, delegating to the worker bee. Gibbs often praised Vinny and the personnel people for getting good reads on the players the team needed and providing good talent.

He did this because they did a good job.

We haven't enough information at this point to know if they'll do a good job with Zorn. The major signings with Zorn have come this offseason with Dockery, Haynesworth and Hall -- last and this for Hall. Certainly not a bad class of free agents on the face of it. Last year's draft had 10 players but only one starter to this point. One starter and eight reserves/fodder at this point and we don't know about this draft yet.

I agree with your premise that to this point they have been able to put together largely average teams with an occassional dog team and an occassional playoff team. By in large they have found players to play at elite levels everywhere but QB and defensive end. So, it's likely they won't ever find consistent winning until they land on that QB spot.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Off the record:

Holmgren: "Well, the Redskins are stuck with Campbell because nobody else wants him. I hope it works out for my friend Jim."

j/k

youre probably more right than you know.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

youre probably more right than you know.

Oh Stop it BLC! You know I'm playin'. I hope to goodness J Cam makes it happen this year. I, like you and many others, have my doubts though. Call me what you will. And, I do think that coaches behind the scenes have their doubts too. Against the big "programs" in the second half of the year, Campbell flopped and it won't the O line's fault alone. Unlike you though BLC, I'm actually pullin' for him

[The Sisko]

youre probably more right than you know.

BLC you know if JC somehow blows up next season I'll be expecting you to come up with a sig that's as self deprecating as your current one is funny. That thing still cracks me up...and I'm a JC guy.

Oh, and you might want to check into changing that handle of yours as well. After all, why would you want a constant reminder of the Xmas when you got a lump of coal in your stocking?