JLC- Holmgren on Campbell: 'Have Some Patience

[myzhi]

You think we have a better offense than Denver. You think Cassel sucks. You say Stafford wasn't drafted to be groomed when he.. in fact, is being groomed and won't be starting this year. You either don't know what groom means or you're just.. I don't know, I don't know what you.

Read and try to comprehend.

Did I say we had better offense last year? I said Moss, Cooley and Portis > Denver's counterpart.

Yeah. Think Cassel sux. System guy. Plus, he's playing for lowly Chiefs. His chances aren't good.

Maybe, you miss part were I said grooming takes years on the bench. Stafford and Sanchez will either start this year or next.

Going to just ignore you and stop replying. Seems pointless.

[The Sisko]

If the team struggles this year, I could see a scenario with Holmgren as the VP of whatever, and then picking a coach, and likely retaining Zorn. He might/might not want to coach again, but I'm pretty sure he will be an executive somewhere. And if the 'Skins fail again, unlike most, I think Vinny is on his way out. Mostly because he said so. But also because Dan seems like he's basically given Vinny the reigns on personnel, and if it fails, it's on him.

That's an interesting idea, but wrong. Holmgren was at his best as a coach...as GM, not so much. I'd be more than willing to hire him to be our HC assuming Snyderatto decided to dump Zorn, but GM :no:.

OTOH, could he possibly be worse than Snyderatto? I honestly don't know. Seattle had some really average to sorry drafts when he was in charge of personnel but Snyderatto hasn't exactly been good either.

[The Sisko]

To be honest, I'm bored of Campbell.

You're a little young for us to be concerned about your boredom. People your age tend to have famously short attention spans. Try posting something of substance that actually provides a rationale or kindly :stfu:

[wvtbred]

You're a little young for us to be concerned about your boredom. People your age tend to have famously short attention spans. Try posting something of substance that actually provides a rationale or kindly :stfu:

I am more then twice his age and I feel his pain.

[Voice_of_Reason]

... but the guys that are still getting paid to know talant wouldn't give us a second round pick for JC.

1. You don't know that for fact.

2. The 'Skins and Jets seem to be the only two teams stupid enough to deal a 2nd round pick for a player who's only assured to be around for 1 year. JC is in the last year of his contract. Why in God's name would ANYBODY trade a 2nd round pick for a QB in the last year of his contract? They just inherited the problem of signing him to a long term deal, or making the 2nd round pick valid for only 1 year. That puts all the negotiating power to the player. The FO would look like idiots (think Vinny and Snyder after JT was released) for dealing a 2nd for a player for 1 year.

The Jet's did it with Favre, and I'm pretty sure they would have liked that 2nd back. The 'Skins did it with JT. And they would like that 2nd round pick back also. The difference is that both of those players are future HOFers.

I can't think of a single example of a player in the last year of his contract being traded early in his career. Well, Ok, maybe 1: Portis. I don't know if he was in the last year or second to last year. But I can't think of any others.

[PROSCOUT]

I don't see Holmgren ever coming here to D.C. Why would he?

If Zorn is successful this year, then its impossible. If Zorn is not successfull....

well that's impossible! 13-3 this year.

[gortiz]

Jason may not be the answer. But patience and sticking with a system for more than a year is.

and that ladies and gentleman is the most concise and to the point answer you will get.

perfectly said...

you can not refute this if you are for the kid, or against him.

[knowledge316]

As I recall, JC was under Al Saunders system for 2 years and we all know how that worked out.

[stickyshooZ]

Holmgren knows all about patience, after all, he did coach Brett Favre.

[Morneblade]

As I recall, JC was under Al Saunders system for 2 years and we all know how that worked out.

An offense that takes about 3 years to get..........and he didnt take any snaps the first year in it.

[HighOnHendrix]

As I recall, JC was under Al Saunders system for 2 years and we all know how that worked out.

An offense that takes about 3 years to get..........and he didnt take any snaps the first year in it.

...And it's a crap offense. :2cents:

[ttr77]

13-3 this year.

I'm sticking with 7-9.

[wvtbred]

As I recall, JC was under Al Saunders system for 2 years and we all know how that worked out.

He was in about half if that of Al's offense because he couldn't handle it all.

[DieselPwr44]

...And it's a crap offense. :2cents:

So that's why the Chief's were top 3 consecutive years under it?

I know this might be hard to accept, but the players we have on this team don't seem to be the sharpest tools in the shed when it comes to picking up offenses.:2cents:

[twistedpower]

So that's why the Chief's were top 3 consecutive years under it?

I know this might be hard to accept, but the players we have on this team don't seem to be the sharpest tools in the shed when it comes to picking up offenses.:2cents:

the Chiefs were tops because they got to run the offense, when Al came here he only got to run the passing game and that was only between the 20's. Gibbs controlled the running and when they got in the redzone, so we never got to see what the whole offense could do.

[knowledge316]

An offense that takes about 3 years to get..........and he didnt take any snaps the first year in it.

He started the last SEVEN games of the season in his first year under Saunders. But I guess that doesn't count as taking snaps because he didn't start from the beginning of the season, right?

There's always an excuse built in with each system. Saunders takes 3 years to master so he needed another season. WCO takes 3 years, blah blah blah. I wonder what it would take for you guys to actually believe JC isn't a franchise caliber QB

[RED06]

WOW. Just WOW. Going back to the 1970s and 1980s to find examples. My point is that the team has showed patience with JC. Again, how many teams actually waited for a QB to develop going into their 5th season.

This era of the NFL, teams generally don't wait more than 3 seasons for a QB to develop.[/quote

Well let me ask you this, how many teams have changed offenses 3 times with coaching philosophies, staff, etc etc etc and expected him to be fully developed?

Jason Campbell has 3 offensive systems in his 5 years as you say but only starting 2 1/2 years of the going into his 5th season and the first time in the same offense since he's been in the league for consecutive seasons.

So let me ask you a question, name one QB in the league for the last 5 years that's done that and has improved every year? Meaning learn 3 totally different offenses, etc etc etc in his development period.

RED06

[RED06]

He started the last SEVEN games of the season in his first year under Saunders. But I guess that doesn't count as taking snaps because he didn't start from the beginning of the season, right?

There's always an excuse built in with each system. Saunders takes 3 years to master so he needed another season. WCO takes 3 years, blah blah blah. I wonder what it would take for you guys to actually believe JC isn't a franchise caliber QB

And what evidence do you have that says he isn't? I'm curious

RED06

[knowledge316]

WOW. Just WOW. Going back to the 1970s and 1980s to find examples. My point is that the team has showed patience with JC. Again, how many teams actually waited for a QB to develop going into their 5th season.

This era of the NFL, teams generally don't wait more than 3 seasons for a QB to develop.[/quote

Well let me ask you this, how many teams have changed offenses 3 times with coaching philosophies, staff, etc etc etc and expected him to be fully developed?

Jason Campbell has 3 offensive systems in his 5 years as you say but only starting 2 1/2 years of the going into his 5th season and the first time in the same offense since he's been in the league for consecutive seasons.

So let me ask you a question, name one QB in the league for the last 5 years that's done that and has improved every year? Meaning learn 3 totally different offenses, etc etc etc in his development period.

RED06

the highlighted part is just not true...he was under Saunders for 2 consecutive years (his 2nd and 3rd years)

[LadySkinsFan]

I am sick of hearing about how many more chances/excuses JC is going to get.

Last year, 2 rookie QBs came into the NFL, new head coaches, new systems, and their teams made the playoffs.

JC had been in the NFL how long at that point? He had started how many games at that point?

Even Zorn said he was still teaching him fundamentals. If anything, they should be working on finesse and not fundamentals.

Too bad we're not having a QB competition. If anything, it would push JC harder and he might improve, but we saw how he defaulted to all his old habits at the end of last year. I expect to see more of the same this year as he still doesn't have the fundamentals down.

[knowledge316]

And what evidence do you have that says he isn't? I'm curious

RED06

i just don't think he's a franchise QB...i don't know what kind of evidence you are looking for as i am not a coach nor do i watch game films to analyze his plays and such...but what i do know is that from watching ~20 years of NFL, he isn't a franchise QB...yeah he made improvements last season, but those are minor improvements for the most part...he hasn't done anything that screams franchise QB...hell, at this point in his career, there's more questions about him than there's answers

what makes you think that he's a franchise QB?

[RED06]

the highlighted part is just not true...he was under Saunders for 2 consecutive years

I thimk you probably want to check that bro, that wasn't Saunders offense but moreso Gibbs/Saunders offense meshed and JC didn't play in that offense at all the first year. That was more of Gibbs offense he played those 7 games in and then Gibbs allowed Saunders to control the passing side and Gibbs controlled the running game.

Gibbs was a run first guy and Saunders was more of a time based passing game type of offense, and we NEVER saw Al Saunders complete offense because of Gibbs being stubborn which made our offensive scheme VERY predictable.

So that statement is very true, its Jason Campbell first time being in the same offense for 2 years! Everyone says it, including Jason Campbell and I think he would know more than we do, as well as it being written in some of the latest articles

RED06

[knowledge316]

I thimk you probably want to check that bro, that wasn't Saunders offense but moreso Gibbs/Saunders offense meshed and JC didn't play in that offense at all the first year. That was more of Gibbs offense he played those 7 games in and then Gibbs allowed Saunders to control the passing side and Gibbs controlled the running game.

Gibbs was a run first guy and Saunders was more of a time based passing game type of offense, and we NEVER saw Al Saunders complete offense because of Gibbs being stubborn which made our offensive scheme VERY predictable.

So that statement is very true, its Jason Campbell first time being in the same offense for 2 years! Everyone says it, including Jason Campbell and I think he would know more than we do, as well as it being written in some of the latest articles

RED06

Gibbs/Saunders were in control of the O during JC's 2nd and 3rd years...his rookie season was all Gibbs, and JC didn't play at all that season

His 2nd season, he started 7 games under those two calling the plays and he started his 3rd season under those two

again that statement is not true b/c the same people were calling the plays his 2nd and 3rd seasons, doesn't matter if one controlled the run and other controlled the pass

of course JC will say it b/c its been repeated so often that he even believes it...JC also said that he's a good QB and had good stats last season, but that isn't true as he was near the bottom half in most categories

[RED06]

i just don't think he's a franchise QB...i don't know what kind of evidence you are looking for as i am not a coach nor do i watch game films to analyze his plays and such...but what i do know is that from watching ~20 years of NFL, he isn't a franchise QB...yeah he made improvements last season, but those are minor improvements for the most part...he hasn't done anything that screams franchise QB...hell, at this point in his career, there's more questions about him than there's answers

what makes you think that he's a franchise QB?

I think he can be a franchise QB, if you can remember the Giants fans where calling for Eli to be out of NY the same year he won the Super Bowl. Jason Campbell has improved every year he has started which has only been 2 1/2 years and not 5 years. He is going into his 5th season from the time he was drafted in 2005 and did not play because Gibbs didn't believe in playing rookie QB's.

But from what you're saying and whatever your method of evaluating QB's is Steve Young, Brett Farve, Eli Manning, Drew Brees and quite a few others would have been cut by you and virtually all of those guys stayed in the same offensive system for their first few seasons in the NFL (which is huge) more than what some of you even realize.

Our impatient, win now at all cost Owner is costing this team NOT Jason Campbell. Tell me how did he do so well in the first 8 games when the lines where healthy etc etc etc, but reversed the last 8? And tell me why did Clinton Potis numbers fell WAAAYYYYY off the last 8 games too while you're at it?

So based on his progressions througout all the adversities he faced and improving every year while under center would lead me to believe that he can be a franchise QB

RED06

[RED06]

Gibbs/Saunders were in control of the O during JC's 2nd and 3rd years...his rookie season was all Gibbs, and JC didn't play at all that season

His 2nd season, he started 7 games under those two calling the plays and he started his 3rd season under those two

again that statement is not true b/c the same people were calling the plays his 2nd and 3rd seasons, doesn't matter if one controlled the run and other controlled the pass

of course JC will say it b/c its been repeated so often that he even believes it...JC also said that he's a good QB and had good stats last season, but that isn't true as he was near the bottom half in most categories

What stats was he in the bottom of almost ALL of them? And no, JC was in Gibbs offense those 7 games and he got hurt the last part of the season (4 games) in Saunders first year being called the so called offensive coordinator.

And anyways, when did 7 games become one full season? and he didn't complete the next full season due to a knee injury, so where are you getting he played in Saunders offense for 2 years?

RED06