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JLC- Holmgren on Campbell: 'Have Some Patience


gobigred

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sad you have to resort to that proscout. but oh well.

what else do we have to do sitting here 3 months away from football?

Anyway, in the morning I am officially changing my user name to:

Brandon Lloyd Thanksgiving. I just want to make it clear that I am not a Brandon Lloyd fan....just like you aren't.

Goodnight Mr. Christmas. Talk to ya later.

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Eli Manning's a solid, steady QB that you can rely upon to make things happen when you have surrounded him with talent. Since Eli's been in NY, they've put him in the best possible position by supplying him with excellent linemen, excellent running backs, and giving him the present of Plaxico Burress in 2005. As he's shown, he even has a streak of clutch play in his makeup, as evidenced by his play in the Super Bowl and a couple of overtime games. However, he isn't Peyton, Brady, Brees, or even McNabb (in his prime) in that he's able to make chicken salad out of chicken ****, but you can rely upon him to give you the win if he has all the tools around him.

A major example of this was in 2008 when Plaxico Burress was out. Without Burress to draw all those double teams and create those mismatches that made guys like Domenik Hixon look good, the Giants' passing game struggled. It was through their defense and the solid 3 headed running game that they were able to survive. Personally, I'm curious to see how Eli fares without having Burress to throw to.

I agree

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what else do we have to do sitting here 3 months away from football?

Anyway, in the morning I am officially changing my user name to:

Brandon Lloyd Thanksgiving. I just want to make it clear that I am not a Brandon Lloyd fan....just like you aren't.

Goodnight Mr. Christmas. Talk to ya later.

lol, if you actually did that youd be the man regardless of your campbell delusions.

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For the number of drafts picks we gave up for Jason ... He has yet to show he is worth that kind of sacrifice and investment.

This will be Jason's 5th year in the NFL. Most ELITE QBs are showing what they can do by now. Take Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan, Joe Flaco, to name a few.

Fact remains, that Jason is football slow - grasping concepts, and in his decision making. For crying out loud, he couldn't even beat out Marc "Boo"nell who was well past his prime for nearly a year and a half.

Great players makes everyone around him that much better. Joe Montana is a great example.

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For the number of drafts picks we gave up for Jason ... He has yet to show he is worth that kind of sacrifice and investment.

This will be Jason's 5th year in the NFL. Most ELITE QBs are showing what they can do by now. Take Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan, Joe Flaco, to name a few.

Fact remains, that Jason is football slow - grasping concepts, and in his decision making. For crying out loud, he couldn't even beat out Marc "Boo"nell who was well past his prime for nearly a year and a half.

Great players makes everyone around him that much better. Joe Montana is a great example.

I'm not posting this to defend JC. There are ELITE quarterbacks who were there by the end of their 4th year.

I just don't think Culter is ELITE. Yes, he threw for more yardage and TD's but his w/l record still has more losses than wins. He's had the chance to take his team to the playoffs twice and blew it. He only had to win one out of the last three games in 2008. His defense crumbled but he didn't do anything to help them out. They were still in the Bills game and he didn't throw even 1 TD plus he threw an interception. In the last three games he threw only 2 TD's and 4 INT.

Flacco also has a ways to go before he can called ELITE. The Ravens defense was more responsible for getting them to the playoffs. After that Flacco only averaged 145 yards a game, had 1 TD and 3 INTS for 3 games, completed only 44% of his passes and had a qbr of 50.8.

I don't think I would use those two particular quarterbacks when giving an example of ELITE.

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I am the Extremeskins message board. I know more than Mike Holmgren.

:hysterical:

I'd take Walrus here any day of the week and twice on a sunday but some consistency at HC is what we need lets home Zorn gets it done.

If we'd have got Cutler great, but I'd take Campbell over waiting another 2 seasons for Sanchez or the like. Don't know if Campbell gets us there but he gives us a better shot this year. Who are we really gonna get in a trade, who might be available? Back to selling the farm again though.

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please find me a quote that says a defense is easier to learn than an offense.

im here waiting for you to astonish me.

"What I do is I start tacklin' da quartaback, un-un-unless he give da ball to somebody else; in which case I'll try to tackle that person." - Bobby Bouchet

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I'm not posting this to defend JC. There are ELITE quarterbacks who were there by the end of their 4th year.

I just don't think Culter is ELITE. Yes, he threw for more yardage and TD's but his w/l record still has more losses than wins. He's had the chance to take his team to the playoffs twice and blew it. He only had to win one out of the last three games in 2008. His defense crumbled but he didn't do anything to help them out. They were still in the Bills game and he didn't throw even 1 TD plus he threw an interception. In the last three games he threw only 2 TD's and 4 INT.

Flacco is not elite. He has an elite arm.

You sound like you're nitpicking about Cutler. Why were they in the Bills game for example? Cutler rushed for 2 scores. The Bears certainly gave up an elite price, there were probably multiple offers in the same neighborhood.

I don't think the league agrees with you.

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The future is now. Any talk about patience when it relates to years in the past or future is idiotic. Unless losing is acceptable.

Keeping chopping and changing QB's, coaches, schemes etc is also idiotic - unless losing is acceptable.

Bottom line sometimes you have to allow people time. How much time is enough and which guys you persevere with is of course subjective.

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Keeping chopping and changing QB's, coaches, schemes etc is also idiotic - unless losing is acceptable.

Bottom line sometimes you have to allow people time. How much time is enough and which guys you persevere with is of course subjective.

I can't argue with your logic.

Here the Redskins are, one of the most profitable sports teams in the world, with a fan base that is as strong as any.

Fans like me, at the beginning of every season, believe the Redskins can win the Super Bowl.

It does bother me when I hear all this talk about "young guys just learning how to play in the NFL" and how we need to be patient. It also bothers me when we bring in high priced vets who don't perform.

But, there is an underlying problem with patience. It can lead to complacency.

It is my opinion that the Redskins have lost the "edge." The "edge" has been gone for some time now.

The team needs new life; new energy. The Redskins need to regain that edge.

"Mental attitude is 75 percent of winning." Vince Lombardi.

It is the only 75% we are missing.

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"What I do is I start tacklin' da quartaback, un-un-unless he give da ball to somebody else; in which case I'll try to tackle that person." - Bobby Bouchet

LOL. still though, nobody has even attempted to make an argument that defense is easier to learn than offense.

so ill ask again, why did gregg williams defense take no time to start lighting up the league in 2004 but all these offensive systems seem to take 3 years to learn?

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LOL. still though, nobody has even attempted to make an argument that defense is easier to learn than offense.

so ill ask again, why did gregg williams defense take no time to start lighting up the league in 2004 but all these offensive systems seem to take 3 years to learn?

And why did Atlanta and Baltimore both make the playoffs last year in their first season with a new offense, head coach, and QB? Why did Miami have such a great season under the same circumstances?

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Its called an offensive line and good protection. Dont gimie that its an "excuse" crap. ANyone of you would have called Pennington a complete waste of time before last year. The difference in his play? He allowed to stay upright for a good part of the season...

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Its called an offensive line and good protection. Dont gimie that its an "excuse" crap. ANyone of you would have called Pennington a complete waste of time before last year. The difference in his play? He allowed to stay upright for a good part of the season...

matt ryan played behind the exact same line that led the falcons to 3-13 with chris redman.

no one would argue that the dolphins didnt upgrade their line, they definitely did. but how on earth didnt pennington learn that offense so quickly? youd think he needs 3 years like most good QBS!

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Its called an offensive line and good protection. Dont gimie that its an "excuse" crap. ANyone of you would have called Pennington a complete waste of time before last year. The difference in his play? He allowed to stay upright for a good part of the season...

I think everyone here concurs that this team needs to upgrade the OL.

Well, everyone except the FO. Dockery ain't the solution to what ails us...

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Its called an offensive line and good protection. Dont gimie that its an "excuse" crap. ANyone of you would have called Pennington a complete waste of time before last year. The difference in his play? He allowed to stay upright for a good part of the season...

Last season, I watched a few games with a stopwatch and clocked the amount of time it took from snap until first contact or the QB was flushed out of the pocket. I no longer have the spreadsheets due to some hard drive issues, but will do the same thing this season and post on it for a few games. I'll use the Skins v NYG as an example, mostly because it's the only one I can recall close to accurate offhand. JC had, on average, roughly 3 seconds from snap to touch, which compared rather unfavorably to EM's 4.5+.

You can make the argument that this was more of a pass rushing issue, you can argue that it was the offensive line, or you can be realistic and realize that it's a combination of both. Regardless, I don't think any reasonable fan who watched 2008 go by can ignore that other teams' QBs often had 4-5 seconds to scan the field, whereas Campbell rarely got more than 3-4.

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Regardless, I don't think any reasonable fan who watched 2008 go by can ignore that other teams' QBs often had 5-6 seconds to scan the field, whereas Campbell rarely got more than 3-4.

Who the hell regularly gets 6 seconds to sit in the pocket?

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And why did Atlanta and Baltimore both make the playoffs last year in their first season with a new offense, head coach, and QB? Why did Miami have such a great season under the same circumstances?

I don't know much about Atlanta. The Ravens and Phins owe their good seasons mostly to turnovers. The Phins led the league with +17. The Ravens' defense lead the league with 34 takeaways. Neither team is likely to repeat their performance this season since those stats rarely are consistent from year to year.

Each turnover is worth four points on average. Since the Ravens had 16 more takeaways than our defense, that's four points a game. With four points more per game on average, it's likely the Skins would have been 11-5 also.

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LOL. still though, nobody has even attempted to make an argument that defense is easier to learn than offense.

so ill ask again, why did gregg williams defense take no time to start lighting up the league in 2004 but all these offensive systems seem to take 3 years to learn?

Defense is easier to coach and learn because, given half a chance, many offenses defeat themselves with poor execution.

The toughest coaching job is putting together an effective passing game. That's why coaches like Norv Turner, who can do it, are sought after and offered head coaching jobs.

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