JLC- Holmgren on Campbell: 'Have Some Patience

[knowledge316]

I think he can be a franchise QB, if you can remember the Giants fans where calling for Eli to be out of NY the same year he won the Super Bowl. Jason Campbell has improved every year he has started which has only been 2 1/2 years and not 5 years. He is going into his 5th season from the time he was drafted in 2005 and did not play because Gibbs didn't believe in playing rookie QB's.

But from what you're saying and whatever your method of evaluating QB's is Steve Young, Brett Farve, Eli Manning, Drew Brees and quite a few others would have been cut by you and virtually all of those guys stayed in the same offensive system for their first few seasons in the NFL (which is huge) more than what some of you even realize.

Our impatient, win now at all cost Owner is costing this team NOT Jason Campbell. Tell me how did he do so well in the first 8 games when the lines where healthy etc etc etc, but reversed the last 8? And tell me why did Clinton Potis numbers fell WAAAYYYYY off the last 8 games too while you're at it?

So based on his progressions througout all the adversities he faced and improving every year while under center would lead me to believe that he can be a franchise QB

RED06

First, I don't think Eli is that good. But somehow, he manages to play well in the 4th quarter. Eli was also taking his team to the playoffs.

As for JC and the first half of the season, I believe that has more to do with Zorn being a new coach and no one had any tape on him as to what his tendencies were. Mind you, JC didn't play great in all 8 games, I would say he played decent vs Philly, St Louis, and Cleveland (weeks 5-7), and vs Detroit he had a good game, but that team couldn't stop anybody.

Steve Young was before my time, but he was with TB for 1st 2 seasons and went to SF. He played limited time in SF and had good numbers 10TD/0int his first few games with SF in his 3rd season overall. Also, I don't know if you know this or not, but he was a backup to some guy named Joe Montana. He wasn't brought it to start immediately.

Brett Favre showed enough in his first season playing, when he started 13 games so I don't know why you would say that by whatever method I use, he would have been cut. His 3rd season starting, he threw for 33TDs/13ints.

As for Brees, he didn't play his 1st season. The year he had the breakout season, SD drafted Rivers so they did give up on him.

It's pointless talking about JC as the so-called "haters" and "apologists" won't change their minds. So the best thing to do is just wait and see what happens this season with no excuses.

I'm done talking about JC on this board. Nothing will change with either side of the fans opinions. Once the season starts, everyone will hope that he performs and the team wins. If the offense doesn't improve, JC will be gone and there will still be people making excuses for JC for one thing or another.

[knowledge316]

What stats was he in the bottom of almost ALL of them? And no, JC was in Gibbs offense those 7 games and he got hurt the last part of the season (4 games) in Saunders first year being called the so called offensive coordinator.

And anyways, when did 7 games become one full season? and he didn't complete the next full season due to a knee injury, so where are you getting he played in Saunders offense for 2 years?

RED06

Saunders was brought in during Gibbs 2nd season with the team and he stayed here for 2 seasons, until Gibbs retired. JC was here for 3 seasons with Gibbs, so Saunders was here as the OC in JC's 2nd and 3rd season.

I never said 7 games meant full season. I said he was under Saunders for 2 seasons. Injuries are part of the game, it happens. He played in majority of the games prior to getting hurt.

I guess you intentionally left out the "ALMOST." He was 15th in completion %, which is the top half, but not by much, 16th in yards, that's right in the middle, TDs tied for 21st, of course few QBs below him didn't even play 16 games, 25th in Yards per completion, and QB Rating 19th.

So what categories was he in the top half? Turnovers and completion %. I don't know what other categories are there. But if you can point out others where he's in the top half, I would appreciate it.

[HighOnHendrix]

So that's why the Chief's were top 3 consecutive years under it?

We're not those Chiefs. We also don't get play in their division. Our division is full of tough defenses, while the AFC West is historically so-so on defense. Also during that time that div was dominated by Denver and KC, with the Raiders and Bolts lagging near the back of the league. Remember how pitiful SD was back then? I see where you're coming from, but I don't think the comparison is that apt; it's just like saying silliness like "Flacco and Ryan were good as rookies, why not (insert name here)". Seriously.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

First, I don't think Eli is that good. But somehow, he manages to play well in the 4th quarter. Eli was also taking his team to the playoffs.

every year eli has started the giants have gone to the playoffs. he has a superbowl ring against maybe the best team ever in the NFL.

youre dead wrong.

[Hunter_R]

every year eli has started the giants have gone to the playoffs. he has a superbowl ring against maybe the best team ever in the NFL.

youre dead wrong.

It does explain a lot when people here think Eli isn't that good, but will bend over backwards for Brunell 2.0.

[HOGnificent]

whats wrong with patience? This is the second year JC will be playing in Zorn's offense. Did we as fans really expect 1st year coach, young QB with first year in the system, a super bowl??? Not to mention the injuries in our offense...Mmmmm....

[Hunter_R]

whats wrong with patience? This is the second year JC will be playing in Zorn's offense. Did we as fans really expect 1st year coach, young QB with first year in the system, a super bowl??? Not to mention the injuries in our offense...Mmmmm....

Nobody expected anything before last season started. When the Skins hit the ground running, people's collective jaws hit the ground. It's the complete implosion that people aren't happy about.

[knowledge316]

every year eli has started the giants have gone to the playoffs. he has a superbowl ring against maybe the best team ever in the NFL.

youre dead wrong.

He isn't that good. I know he takes his team to the playoffs every year.

Calling the Patriots the best team ever in the NFL is ridiculous.

[knowledge316]

It does explain a lot when people here think Eli isn't that good, but will bend over backwards for Brunell 2.0.

I am not a JC backer just because I said Eli isn't that good. If you read any of my posts the last few pages, I clearly state that JC isn't the franchise QB.

As for Eli, he's a good QB, but he's not as good as Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rivers.

[myzhi]

He isn't that good. I know he takes his team to the playoffs every year.

Calling the Patriots the best team ever in the NFL is ridiculous.

If Pats won the SB, would have been 19-0. Name another team that has done it?

Just the record alone would have put them in same league "Talks about the best team ever." Not even going t mention all the other NFL records they broke that year.

Personally, I wish the Pats won. Tired of all the hoopla every year when teams get close to 1972 Miami Dolphins.

[Conn]

If Pats won the SB, would have been 19-0. Name another team that has done it?

Just the record alone would have put them in same league "Talks about the best team ever." Not even going t mention all the other NFL records they broke that year.

Personally, I wish the Pats won. Tired of all the hoopla every year when teams get close to 1972 Miami Dolphins.

Funny, living in NE I have the exact opposite view, I would have hated if the Pats went 19-0, and not just because of the fans. I love the parity in the NFL, and how it can be any team, any year. I don't think 19-0 should be possible, from a competitive standpoint. And I don't think that it will be that close to being accomplished again for a long, long time.

[knowledge316]

if pats won the sb, would have been 19-0. Name another team that has done it?

Just the record alone would have put them in same league "talks about the best team ever." not even going t mention all the other nfl records they broke that year.

Personally, i wish the pats won. Tired of all the hoopla every year when teams get close to 1972 miami dolphins.

if if if

[Hiro]

I am not a JC backer just because I said Eli isn't that good. If you read any of my posts the last few pages, I clearly state that JC isn't the franchise QB.

As for Eli, he's a good QB, but he's not as good as Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rivers.

Eli Manning's a solid, steady QB that you can rely upon to make things happen when you have surrounded him with talent. Since Eli's been in NY, they've put him in the best possible position by supplying him with excellent linemen, excellent running backs, and giving him the present of Plaxico Burress in 2005. As he's shown, he even has a streak of clutch play in his makeup, as evidenced by his play in the Super Bowl and a couple of overtime games. However, he isn't Peyton, Brady, Brees, or even McNabb (in his prime) in that he's able to make chicken salad out of chicken ****, but you can rely upon him to give you the win if he has all the tools around him.

A major example of this was in 2008 when Plaxico Burress was out. Without Burress to draw all those double teams and create those mismatches that made guys like Domenik Hixon look good, the Giants' passing game struggled. It was through their defense and the solid 3 headed running game that they were able to survive. Personally, I'm curious to see how Eli fares without having Burress to throw to.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

He isn't that good. I know he takes his team to the playoffs every year.

Calling the Patriots the best team ever in the NFL is ridiculous.

I don't know dude. The Pats were pretty ****ing sick that year. I think if they would've beat the Giants they absolutely, without a doubt would've been considered the best ever.

[wvtbred]

if if if

If Jason could grasp just one offense we wouldn't be going through this crap now. You would think in all of the ones he has seen he would be able to master at least one.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

people have resorted to belittling eli manning, a superbowl mvp who leads his team to the playoffs every year, and has won the division twice.

and hes a QB that didnt need 3 years to learn his offense.

[PROSCOUT]

people have resorted to belittling eli manning, a superbowl mvp who leads his team to the playoffs every year, and has won the division twice.

and hes a QB that didnt need 3 years to learn his offense.

No Manning didn't need 3 years, he just needed a 2nd year in the same system. How bout' giving Campbell a chance to get into a 2nd year?

And don't worry, if Campbell doesn't throw 20 TD passes this year in Zorn's system, both will likely be gone and you;ll get your wish:

The Skins will draft a QB and start all over with a new coach and new system....AGAIN.

You deserve Dan Snyder. Neither of you has any patience.

[Vicious]

and hes a QB that didnt need 3 years to learn his offense.

:doh: on so many levels.

[PROSCOUT]

If Jason could grasp just one offense we wouldn't be going through this crap now. You would think in all of the ones he has seen he would be able to master at least one.

I agree...he should master at least one of the 12 offenses he has been in. And I am sure he would if the teams wouldn't scrap the offenses as fast as they bring'em in. Favorite line for Dan Snyder: "NEXT"!:doh:

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

well he was in his second year in saunders system when he was averaging 1 TD and close to 1 INT per game, while leading his team to 5-7 with a top 10 defense.

but we dont wanna talk about that, itll ruin the credibility of the "he needs a 2nd year" defense.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I agree...he should master at least one of the 12 offenses he has been in. And I am sure he would if the teams wouldn't scrap the offenses as fast as they bring'em in. Favorite line for Dan Snyder: "NEXT"!:doh:

dan snyder is actually not a total idiot when it comes to our turnover rate. patience is fine if you see something worth being patient for. campbell isnt worth waiting for. however, i do feel zorns system cant be judged until we see what another QB can do in it. ill be bummed if hes let go after this season if campbell fails. i think with the right QB this system would be pretty awesome.

however, it doesnt take long for a system to work on offense or defense. our defense went from 25th in 2003 to 3rd in 2004, we revamped the whole thing, brought in a new coordinator, started fresh, and it worked. and shocker! we have the same exact scheme today. why? cause it worked right off the bat.

how come our defense didnt need 3 years to learn williams system?

[Justsomeguy]

I don't know dude. The Pats were pretty ****ing sick that year. I think if they would've beat the Giants they absolutely, without a doubt would've been considered the best ever.

They were without a doubt very good! It was almost as if they knew exactly what every team except a few were about to do. You would almost get the impression they were cheating or something.

[PROSCOUT]

dan snyder is actually not a total idiot when it comes to our turnover rate. patience is fine if you see something worth being patient for. campbell isnt worth waiting for. however, i do feel zorns system cant be judged until we see what another QB can do in it. ill be bummed if hes let go after this season if campbell fails. i think with the right QB this system would be pretty awesome.

however, it doesnt take long for a system to work on offense or defense. our defense went from 25th in 2003 to 3rd in 2004, we revamped the whole thing, brought in a new coordinator, started fresh, and it worked. and shocker! we have the same exact scheme today. why? cause it worked right off the bat.

how come our defense didnt need 3 years to learn williams system?

Wow. You finally slipped up and blew what little credibility you had on this board. Comparing the learning curve of offense to defense.

Every preseason we hear experts with more experience than you or I, comment that the defense is AHEAD of the offense at that point in the season. Offenses are more complicated pure and simple...and take more time to learn.

And here I thought I was discussing football with someone who had passed football 101.

By golly gee, Looks like you haven't even registered for the class yet! :doh:

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Wow. You finally slipped up and blew what little credibility you had on this board. Comparing the learning curve of offense to defense.

Every preseason we hear experts with more experience than you or I, comment that the defense is AHEAD of the offense at that point in the season. Offenses are more complicated pure and simple...and take more time to learn.

And here I thought I was discussing football with someone who had passed football 101.

By golly gee, Looks like you haven't even registered for the class yet! :doh:

please find me a quote that says a defense is easier to learn than an offense.

im here waiting for you to astonish me.

oh, and i blatantly expected that response from you. even more predictable than i could have imagined.

[PROSCOUT]

please find me a quote that says a defense is easier to learn than an offense.

That will be covered once you have enrolled in football 101. I believe it's on page 62 of your textbook...if I recall. I mean its been about 20 years since I finished that basics course.