JLC- Holmgren on Campbell: 'Have Some Patience

[myzhi]

Comprehend what? We won't have to be patient with the next quarterback? Is that what you are saying? What am I supposed to comprehend? That if we dump Jason Campbell the next guy is going to give immediate results? Is that what I am supposed to comprehend? Or am I supposed to be patient with that guy?

You or I don't have to be patience much longer. It's make or break year.

The average QB career 3-4 years. JC is in his 5th. Enough with excuses.

[Vicious]

You or I don't have to be patience much longer. It's make or break year.

Then why the hell are you clowning on the idea of having to wait for a QB to blossom? Dude, get off it. You just wanted to take shots at JC.

[myzhi]

Yeah, I'm sure it had nothing to do with his ridiculous accuracy. Competition? It would have been a competition? You are technically insane if you think it would have been an actual competition. Quarterbacks take time to learn.

How was Brees ridiculous accuracy before Rivers was drafted?

All I said was JC would have seen writing on the wall. Most likely he would have started this year even if we drafted Sanchez, but instead, he would have ask for a trade. Thus, he's know as "Mr. Afraid of Competition" to me.

As for QB need time, not always. Were you asleep last season?

[myzhi]

Then why the hell are you clowning on the idea of having to wait for a QB to blossom? Dude, get off it. You just wanted to take shots at JC.

After this year, it would be 5 years. How long should team wait? Should we sign him to contract extension with another "JC" year?

[HLF]

How was Brees ridiculous accuracy before Rivers was drafted?

All I said was JC would have seen writing on the wall. Most likely he would have started this year even if we drafted Sanchez, but instead, he would have ask for a trade. Thus, he's know as "Mr. Afraid of Competition" to me.

As for QB need time, not always. Were you asleep last season?

I think he would of asked for a trade because the QB position is not our strongest weakness therefore the team wouldnt address that weakness making our progress into next season that much tougher.

[Vicious]

How was Brees ridiculous accuracy before Rivers was drafted?

All I said was JC would have seen writing on the wall. Most likely he would have started this year even if we drafted Sanchez, but instead, he would have ask for a trade. Thus, he's know as "Mr. Afraid of Competition" to me.

As for QB need time, not always. Were you asleep last season?

I can't believe you are arguing that Drew Brees is the quarterback he is today because another quarterback was drafted by a team. It's illogical, his abilities are his abilities. It does not matter what a quarterback is known to you as. If you were not asleep last season, then you are either blind or incapable of processing what you were seeing.

[myzhi]

I think he would of asked for a trade because the QB position is not our strongest weakness therefore the team wouldnt address that weakness making our progress into next season that much tougher.

If he asked for trade, he would have to compete for starting job somewhere else. He doesn't have credential to automatically be "The QB." Secondly, would have been a "rookie" again. How's that better than staying with the Skins, having a breakout year and cashing in, ala Brees. Yet, he rather be traded. Says a lot to me.

[myzhi]

I can't believe you are arguing that Drew Brees is the quarterback he is today because another quarterback was drafted by a team. It's illogical, his abilities are his abilities. It does not matter what a quarterback is known to you as. If you were not asleep last season, then you are either blind or incapable of processing what you were seeing.

Have you ever heard the phrase "Stepping up to the challenge?"

[AirMayo21]

To be honest, I'm bored of Campbell.

[HLF]

If he asked for trade, he would have to compete for starting job somewhere else. He doesn't have credential to automatically be "The QB." Secondly, would have been a "rookie" again. How's that better than staying with the Skins, having a breakup year and cashing in, ala Brees. Yet, he rather be traded. Says a lot to me.

I agree Im just giving my thoughts on why he would want to be traded. Its obvious the owner doesnt want him, if somebody is willing to trade for him that team more then likely wants him more then Danny.

[Vicious]

Have you ever heard the phrase "Stepping up to the challenge?"

Yeah, quarterbacking in the NFL is not a challenge. There's no competition in it. Needs more competition.

[myzhi]

Yeah, quarterbacking in the NFL is not a challenge. There's no competition in it. Needs more competition.

Yeah. The competition must be fierce for "The Anointed One" from day one.

[bubba9497]

Holgrem could be patience with Young and Hasselbeck because he had All-Pro & future HoF QB starting / player. We don't have that luxury.

:hysterical:

OMG what a croc of ****, seriously

Young was dumped by the Bucs, and everyone thought he was suited for RB than QB

Hasselbeck was so loved the Fans in Seattle cried for Dilfer, and they GOT him, putting Hasselbeck on the bench

if he can see talent in those two, before anyone else, why can't he see talent in Campbell?

oh :idea: I know

because the detractors don't want to believe it, so Holgrems wrong :thumbsup:

[myzhi]

:hysterical:

OMG what a croc of ****, seriously

Young was dumped by the Bucs, and everyone thought he was suited for RB than QB

Hasselbeck was so loved the Fans in Seattle cried for Dilfer, and they GOT him, putting Hasselbeck on the bench

if he can see talent in those two, before anyone else, why can't he see talent in Campbell?

oh :idea: I know

because the detractors don't want to believe it, so Holgrems wrong :thumbsup:

How was my statement wrong?

Let me repeat. When you have All-Pro & future HoF QB starting, you can be patience and groom QB(s).

Young and Hasselbeck are good examples, but this can apply to other NFL teams, ala Matt Cassell.

If we were in that situation, I have no problem giving JC as much time as needed, but we are not. After this year, it's make or break for him. If you disagree, how many more years should we wait? Does he get a new "franchise" QB contract, veteran or backup contract?

[Morneblade]

How was my statement wrong?

Let me repeat. When you have All-Pro & future HoF QB starting, you can be patience and groom QB(s).

Young and Hasselbeck are good examples, but this can apply to other NFL teams, ala Matt Cassell.

If we were in that situation, I have no problem giving JC as much time as needed, but we are not. After this year, it's make or break for him. If you disagree, how many more years should we wait? Does he get a new "franchise" QB contract, veteran or backup contract?

How about more than 1 year starting in the same system with a OL that isnt.................bad?

We could start with that.

[myzhi]

How about more than 1 year starting in the same system with a OL that isnt.................bad?

We could start with that.

It's going to probably take 2-3 more years to revamp the line. So, lets sign JC for another 2-3 years? So, after 8 years of the JC experiment, you would be satisfy? Of course, you also can't draft a high QB in the meantime. Mr. Afraid of Competition wouldn't like not being "The Anointed One" anymore.

If Zorn gets axe, should cycle restarts? He would be "rookie" again.

What about WRs troubles?

[Vicious]

Yeah. The competition must be fierce for "The Anointed One" from day one.

Now you're relating Jason Campbell to Tony Romo sits to pee, you need help.

[myzhi]

Now you're relating Jason Campbell to Tony Romo sits to pee, you need help.

That's slap to JC. How dare to compare "The Anointed One" to undraftee.

[Vicious]

That's slap to JC. How dare to compare "The Anointed One" to undraftee.

Puke fan.

[panamaMike]

You're right Santana. But the last SB team with Ripp was much more of a passing team.I just think that we look at JC with our hearts. He is just not a top quality QB and never will be. He's been a pro for 4-5 years and the coaches are still working on his machanics?IMO they should not resign him and let him see how much he's worth next year. By the way, all these past players have a opinion, but the guys that are still getting paid to know talant wouldn't give us a second round pick for JC.

[Morneblade]

It's going to probably take 2-3 years to revamp the line. So, lets sign JC for another 2-3 years? So, 8 years is what you are asking for? Of course, you also can't draft a high QB. Mr. Afraid of Competition wouldn't like not being "The Anointed One" anymore.

If Zorn gets axe, still sign him?

What about WRs troubles?

Personally, I would give him an extention. Here is my rational.

Campbell hasnt had much help (outside of CP). We have Santana Moss as our only WR threat. WE spent 2 2nd rd draft choices on players that did nothing last year. Which....was to be expected as WR's generally have a very tough adjustment to the NFL. This year should be better for them. We have a old, injury prone OL that has some glaring needs and a lack of depth. And our QB has been in what, 3 offensive systems in his 5 years in the league.

Now, the one time Campbell had the offensive line playing well, he looked like a all-pro and there was talk of him (from people other than Redskins fans) of being MVP. And a Pro-Bowl lock.

This year, He'll have a year in the system and should have some more help on the outside. Dockery is back and while not the best guard in the NFL, is a pretty good player. RT is once again the questionmark on this team with RG and Center also in question. I think we're in a little better shape this year than last year at RT (I think either Heyer or Bridges will start, and Jansen will not player there). Thomas is going downhill, but Rinehart might be ready to step in at some point in the season. Overall, we're in a little better shape than last year, and while it's not a good situation, I think it will be enough to get a good idea on what Campbell has, unless we loose alot of guys to injuries.

And I think if some others players step up (which has been the actual problem) he'll be very good for us.

[Tarantula]

Considering the QBs Holmgren has coached over his career, nothing else needs to be said from those who doubt Campbell.

[wildbill1952]

So you think the Patriots were grooming Cassell because Brady's an All-Pro and possible HOF'er? Tough sell. Preparing might be a better word. Is there any team that isn't preparing their number two QB? To do otherwise would be ludicrous. And if they were preparing Cassell to replace Brady, why did they let him go?

Or could it be that Cassell's success, like Flacco's and Young's and Hasselback's are somehow related to the team around them? It will be interesting to see who posts the better numbers this year. Cassell's numbers this year vs. Cassell's numbers last year. Orton's numbers this year with an OLine and receivers vs. Cutler without a great OLine and great receivers. I mean, they're the same QB, right? A different team isn't going to make a difference, is it?

Or for that matter, it will be interesting comparing Cutler's numbers with Campbell's. Cutler arguably had more weapons for his receivers and definitely a better OLine in Denver, yet his won-loss (17-20) and QB rating (86) were surprisingly similar to Campbell's (16-20 and 84, respectively). This year, even without a decent Redskin OLine, they'll arguably have the same lack of offensive weapons around them. Let's see who has the better year. You don't think the fact that Cutler's in his first year with a new offense vs. Campbell's second gives Campbell an advantage, do you?

On this board, you are only allowed to be a Campbell hater or a Campbell apologist, and nothing in-between, so I guess I have to fall in the latter group. The point I have tried to make, again and again, is that this is still a team game. Why not, just for the sake of argument, get the rest of the offense better, by drafting some talented OLine and another speedster to complement Moss, so the QB has time to throw and has more than one downfield target that isn't double-covered? Then, if and when you throw out the QB for the next guy, you have something the new QB can use.

It just seems bass-ackwards to add another name to the Campbell/Brunell/Ramsey/Green legacy of bringing in new QB's every 3 years, without fixing some other obvious holes in the offense first. Get rid of Campbell if you want, but build a team around him first. As the rest of the team gets better, so will Campbell. Or the next guy.

[myzhi]

So you think the Patriots were grooming Cassell because Brady's an All-Pro and possible HOF'er? Tough sell. Preparing might be a better word. Is there any team that isn't preparing their number two QB? To do otherwise would be ludicrous. And if they were preparing Cassell to replace Brady, why did they let him go?

Does grooming always mean replacing? Was Hasselbeck going to replace Favre? No. It means, in time, that person can fill in if starter gets hurt / leaves by FR. The person being groom can sit on the bench for years since team currently already has legit starter. We don't have this luxury. You don't draft 1st rd QB for grooming. Stafford and Sanchez weren't drafted to be groom.

Or could it be that Cassell's success, like Flacco's and Young's and Hasselback's are somehow related to the team around them? It will be interesting to see who posts the better numbers this year. Cassell's numbers this year vs. Cassell's numbers last year. Orton's numbers this year with an OLine and receivers vs. Cutler without a great OLine and great receivers. I mean, they're the same QB, right? A different team isn't going to make a difference, is it?

Successful in their system. Think, Cassell going to sux this year. If Pats won SB, could have been best team ever. Instead, next year, they couldn't even make the playoffs. Chiefs blew it.

How long are we going to wait for JC to find the right system / player personality to be successful? Believe, Zorn is link to JC. If JC performs like JC as normal, Zorn will be fire. Wouldn't it be best for new HC to start with his own QBs. No point in resigning JC.

If JC has break out year (Pro-Bowl), sure resign him and Zorn. Don't think anyone will be against this.

Or for that matter, it will be interesting comparing Cutler's numbers with Campbell's. Cutler arguably had more weapons for his receivers and definitely a better OLine in Denver, yet his won-loss (17-20) and QB rating (86) were surprisingly similar to Campbell's (16-20 and 84, respectively). This year, even without a decent Redskin OLine, they'll arguably have the same lack of offensive weapons around them. Let's see who has the better year. You don't think the fact that Cutler's in his first year with a new offense vs. Campbell's second gives Campbell an advantage, do you?

We have to agree to disgree. Moss, Cooley and Portis > Denver's.

It's simple with stats, just use All-Pro vs Not. You can't be All-Pro w/o the stats.

On this board, you are only allowed to be a Campbell hater or a Campbell apologist, and nothing in-between, so I guess I have to fall in the latter group. The point I have tried to make, again and again, is that this is still a team game. Why not, just for the sake of argument, get the rest of the offense better, by drafting some talented OLine and another speedster to complement Moss, so the QB has time to throw and has more than one downfield target that isn't double-covered? Then, if and when you throw out the QB for the next guy, you have something the new QB can use.

What you are asking for takes at least 2-3 more years to buildup. Investing 8 years to find out if the QB is the franchise or not is crazy. And, what's currently the backup plan?

It just seems bass-ackwards to add another name to the Campbell/Brunell/Ramsey/Green legacy of bringing in new QB's every 3 years, without fixing some other obvious holes in the offense first. Get rid of Campbell if you want, but build a team around him first. As the rest of the team gets better, so will Campbell. Or the next guy.

News flash. JC is in his 5th year. And, if you have your way, could be 8.

[Vicious]

You think we have a better offense than Denver. You think Cassel sucks. You say Stafford wasn't drafted to be groomed when he.. in fact, is being groomed and won't be starting this year. You either don't know what groom means or you're just.. I don't know, I don't know what you.