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I'm a white West Virginia Republican, and I fail.

Teller

By Teller
in The Tailgate

Favorite Gibbs "mini-era"  

104 members have voted

  1. 1. Favorite Gibbs "mini-era"

    • 1981-84: The Theismann era
      60
    • 1985-88: The Schroeder/Williams era
      20
    • 1989-92: The Rypien era
      68
    • 2004-07: The Brunell era
      26

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Seabee1973

Seabee1973

Posted
Posted
Wrong.

Incompetency stole an election in 2000 and then miraculously won again in 2004.

Not this time. Not this year.

If ABC CBS and NBC And CNN didnt calll the state of florida half an hour early for Gore sending 30,000 voters home an estimated 20,000 of them conservative then this conversation would be useless

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georgiaredskin

georgiaredskin

Posted
Posted
Even when you look at the candidates' strategies you are essentially operating under the assumption that Obama absolutely will go back on his word while McCain would never, EVER think to do any of the things you're afraid of.

The simple truth of the matter is that we won't know what either of them will do in office until we experience it firsthand.

Great job of ducking the questions I asked Georgia. Again, do you really buy McCain's promise to balance the budget in four years? What about the GOP's lack of delivery on those religious values issues? Do you really think they'll give up all those votes by actually doing something to overturn Roe v. Wade? Did most of America benefited from the GOP's tax cuts? How do you explain the failure of trickle down economics as I characterized it?

Personally, I'm not buying your seeming lack of understanding of the latter. You work in an industry (nursing homes) where margins are razor thin and you rely on getting ever higher productivity out of your workers. It benefits you and upper management at the expense of your workers and residents.

In short, you're treading water because you're middle management. The folks above you have done quite well and the folks below you are drowning. If the folks above you want to try to lay off workers and increase patient loads and get sued more often over a few thousand bucks a year, let them.

As for the false and misleading issues you've raised, I'll address those tomorrow-if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

You speak the truth, EA. You have a sound mind, as do you Yusuf. I have enjoyed these debates.

I don't have a lot of time to reply. But let me put it this way: I was not a fan of Bush and I am not a big fan of McCain, but Obama is in the dislike category. Here I am choosing the lesser of two evils, just like I did in the last election. The GOP has failed me since Reagan. The Democrats fail me more. Period.

As for Tuesday and as for tonight: here's to a good game with no injuries. :cheers::)

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The Sisko

The Sisko

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Obama's voting record in the Senate shows no evidence that he'll follow through with his tax plan. Obama will get money after 19 months if he pulls out of Iraq and "ends the war responsibly", yet he puts a timeline on it, and if he cannot get out "in time" then that shoots his plans down right there. Not to mention his current tax plan won't raise enough revenue to fund all the programs he wants to do. What programs would he consider being wasteful in the federal government besides defense? Just name one, because there isn't a program out there besides defense that Obama is going to be willing to cut. Everything is going to grow. Obama has been lying plenty. He lied about not using federal dollars for campaigning. That's why he has so many more ads than McCain. He's lied about past associations with shady characters and constantly changes his story on that. He has no record in his history that supports the idea that he is going to cut taxes for anybody.

Obama claims to give a tax cut to 95% of working families, yet mathematically that is impossible since he plans to let the Bush tax cuts expire, so most of those families will see an increase. He says he is going to give $1000 "tax cut" to people that make a certain amount of money, but the people he talks about giving these tax cuts to includes people that don't even pay taxes at all. 40% of working America doesn't even pay taxes....

...You guys seem to have a motto "A vote for McCain will make you poorer", when in actuality it is "Keep the money you already have." I think Obama's tax plan will more resemble the Carter years than the Clinton years, because that is the last time the Democrats had control of Congress and the White House. They were big spenders. That's the last time we had a recession. When Reagan was inducted January 1981, the inflation rate was 11.83%, and averaged 13.58% the year before.

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/Inflation_Rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx?dsInflation_currentPage=2

A big reason we are in a recession now is because the Democrats shot down Bushs' proposal in 2003, which McCain supported, to reform Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Some Republicans voted against the reform, but the ones who made the biggest stink against it were the Democrats.

Clinton was a social liberal but he was pretty much a fiscal moderate in order to pass his budgets because he had to work it out with the Republican Congress. He promised tax cuts to the middle class and he didn't deliver them, he raised them.

OK, as best I can in the time I have, I'll go through your comments.

1. Ending the Iraq war-I suspect Obama and McCain's responses to this would actually be similar. McCain has argued for withdrawal with honor while Obama wants to withdraw to save money and lives. For both, the facts on the ground are that the insurgency is largely done. Therefore, both candidates would probably draw down the troops to whatever levels our military says they can, and reallocate them to Afghanistan-just as Obama said we should do months ago. I admit Obama was patently wrong on the surge though (but he was right about invading Iraq being foolish and unnecessary to begin with so they're tied 1-1).

2. Obama has said that he's willing to cut wasteful programs that don't work and reform the ones that do work to make them more efficient. I suspect that in the early days of his administration he's going to need to say "No" to much of what the Democrats want. First, because we can't afford it and second because he needs to set a tone that an Obama administration won't be a tax-and-spend liberal free for all.

3. You’re wrong when you say Bush’s tax cuts were “across the board”. The reality is that they did primarily benefit the wealthy. So for example, “privileged tax treatment” for hedge fund managers resulted in six billion dollars in lost tax revenue; two billion of this went to a mere twenty-five individuals. However in reporting this, W. and the GOP average it out so that it appears that Joe sixpack got more in tax cuts than he actually did. As I’ve seen it put, you, W. and me are sitting in a bar and Bill Gates walks in. W. then says, “Hey, we’re all rich because the average net worth in the bar is now $18 bazillion.” Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way…no matter how much the GOP would like you to think that it does. But, don’t just take my word for it:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/bush-tax-cut-mythology/

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/gwbdata.pdf

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aDHF_YUEljiw&refer=columnist_sperling

4. You're also wrong about Fannie and Freddie being the source of our current economic problems. I disproved this to Portis123 earlier. The Reader's Digest version of my post is that the Community Reinvestment Act accounted for only about 35% of the subprime market and that subprime mortgages themselves only accounted for 10-15% of the market.

Look, Obama is a smart guy and I think he "gets it" that the electorate wants governance from the center. Even if he doesn't, I'm sure he understands that we can't mortgage the future for boondogles. Hell, it's already mortgaged enough just from W. and the bailout plan.

The right wants to portray Obama as a typical liberal in order to win the election-which is OK, after all it's an election. However, even Bill O'Reilly has said after interviewing him that he's just not that guy. I really want Obama to win because I think he's the best candidate. However, if McCain wins I won't tear my hair out (what little I have left anyway) because I honestly believe that at their core both of them want to and will do what's best for the country-McCain more so due to being kept honest by a divided government though. ;)

Best of luck to both of them because given the mess we're in the loser of this campaign may well end up being the real winner. If you haven't voted yet, please do so on Tuesday-no matter who you're voting for.

Oh and HTTR!! :cheers:

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Teller

Teller

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Well, this saga is over, and it ended without a ballot being cast.

I spent an hour-and-a-half waiting in line at Hedgesville, WV's Precinct #40. That was good enough to get me approximately 30 feet (in the door, around the corner, and up a small ramp to the school cafeteria (where the machines were.)

Problem was, the line INSIDE the cafeteria snaked from the center of the room, then along three of the four walls, back to the center of the room, ending at the center of the fourth wall.

In total, there were approximately 350 people ahead of me -- all waiting for FIVE GOD DAMNED MACHINES -- and it was taking the average person a good 10 minutes to cast their ballot.

Now, I arrived at the polling place with an hour-and-a-half to cast my ballot. I figured that was safe because the local newspaper said to allow 45 minutes to an hour, and the longest I had EVER waited prior to this was 20 minutes.

This time, it would have taken me four hours -- minimum -- to get through the line.

I attempted to call my boss to see if I could come in late, but an election official jumped my **** and forced me to hang up immediately. (Then proceeded to stand there and lecture me, despite the fact that I said nothing but, "OK sir, no problem. No problem at all," after immediately hanging up.)

When I hung up, I looked around and counted no less than seven other people talking on cell phones or texting, yet none of the officials said ANYTHING to any of them.

"Fury" doesn't even begin to explain what I'm feeling right now. Though I'm at work now, I still have the overwhelming desire to scream, yell, curse, cry, and break things.

I spent two years following this race. I examined every last detail inside and out. I did my research. I was more than prepared to cast the most informed ballot of my life.

I wrestled with myself for months on end, trying to come to a decision. I spent literally hundreds of hours doing my own research, arguing on this board, and talking to good friends about every aspect of this election. I'll never get that time back, and neither will those of you who cared enough to patiently and politely help educate me on these candidates. For that, I am truly sorry.

Whatsmore, I've lost the opportunity to join you in selecting the next leader of this great nation. I never had any idea just how much that would hurt. And to me, it cuts just as deeply as the most difficult times during my divorce.

I'm heartbroken. I feel like I've let down not only my candidate, but my family (who would benefit from his policies), and my great country (which has blessed me with the right to NOT **** it all up.)

So anyway, thanks to those of you who were patient enough to debate me with civility and grace over the past two years. Thanks in no small part to you, I grew to understand what was really important in this election, and I'm indebted to you for that.

In conclusion, so help me God, if Barack Obama loses WV by one vote......well......let's just say I hope he doesn't lose WV by one vote. :mad:

[/melodrama]

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China

China

Posted
Posted

Sorry to hear that h_h. I ran into a 2 hour wait at my polling place, and previously (going back to 1992) the longest I had waited there was a half hour. The bad news is many people such as yourself can't wait that long and will give up. The good news is, it likely means alot more people came out to vote.

Why not have Election Day (at least for Presidential elections) be a national holiday?

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TheGoodBits

TheGoodBits

Posted
Posted

Why not have Election Day (at least for Presidential elections) be a national holiday?

I support this idea... Too many people end up not getting to vote because they can't afford to miss work. Especially when you have people who are living paycheck to paycheck, those $20-30 they won't be getting because they were in line to vote can make a huge difference.

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Teller

Teller

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I'm sorry you didnt get to vote hh. I was turned away on a "paperwork" error during the primaries. I definitely understand your pain.

Wow. I didn't realize that. I'm sorry to hear that.

Man, this is just killing me. I think I'm getting a migraine. :doh:

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TMK9973

TMK9973

Posted
Posted

Sucks - And H_H - I don't want you to take this the wrong way....

But during all that research, you probably should have spent 10 mins researching WV election laws.....

Again - Nothing personal (tough love) - But this is like saying you left for FedEx field with a hour window and missed kick off...

By every indication - This was going to be a record setting turnout. WV is in play and turnout was going to be big. Everyone said to expect long lines.

WV gives you two options

1) You cold have voted early. starting 23 days ago, until 3 days ago, you could have walked into your county clerks office and say "I'd rather vote now" and they would have let you.

http://www.wvsos.com/elections/voters/absentee.htm

2) 3 days ago, when you realized that you didn't get to early voting, you could have told your boss that you need up to 3 hours off to go vote. WV law says they would have to say OK and PAY you for that time, if you submitted it in writing.....

Sure - this info would have been more valuable to you 3 days ago.....but it took me 5 mins on Google to find it.

but at least now you know....... Info will come in handy in 2 and 4 years from now....

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Teller

Teller

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Sucks - And H_H - I don't want you to take this the wrong way....

But during all that research, you probably should have spent 10 mins researching WV election laws.....

Again - Nothing personal (tough love) - But this is like saying you left for FedEx field with a hour window and missed kick off...

Touche.

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WVUforREDSKINS

WVUforREDSKINS

Posted
Posted

Sorry to hear that HH.

There will be many more stories similar to yours that will come out. I know several people that saw 4 hour lines and just got turned off by the whole process, as they had to work.

Every 4 years there needs to be a federal holiday on Tues to give people time to vote, or they need to spread it out to more than just one day (I realize there is early voting, which is what I did, but most people don't)

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DCsportsfan53

DCsportsfan53

Posted
Posted

it's not too late, hh. It's one day out of 365, I know it's rough, I know the system isn't set up to handle this turnout but if I was you, I'd go talk to my boss right now and tell him what happened. Tell him you waited and they wouldn't let you call so you came in but you still need to get to the polls. I know you're angry, I understand, my polling place has been 2 hour waits all day long but give it another shot, it's worth having your vote.

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Larry

Larry

Posted
Posted
If ABC CBS and NBC And CNN didnt calll the state of florida half an hour early for Gore sending 30,000 voters home an estimated 20,000 of them conservative then this conversation would be useless

Uh, you pull a set of completely unbelievable statistics out of your Philly, and claim that without them, the conversation would be useless?

:)

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