Sexism in Sports Journalism (in response to Cam Newton incident)

[codeorama]

Heard the Cam Newton story today regarding his reaction to a female reporter commenting about pass routes.  First, I'm not a Newton fan at all.  

However, I'm sure some will not agree with me, but, I would have a hard time taking ANYONE seriously regarding a detailed analysis discussion regarding specifics of the game, when they haven't played that game at a high level.  

 

Hear me out...  When I listen to Mike and Mike, I have no respect for any game analysis that Greenberg has to offer. He didn't play football. Golic on the other hand, I'm always open to what he has to say.  

I realize that it's not realistic to want/believe that all sports writers "should" be former athletes in the sport that they are reporting on, however, I'd honestly hope that that was a part of the resume. If I own a media outlet, I would want to hire someone that has the most experience possible and could offer insights.  I have no interest in reading or hearing game analysis from someone who didn't play, male, female, whatever...  Not saying I'm right, I'm just expressing my opinion.

One of the reasons I barely ever participate in the FEDEX Field forum is because I honestly find it humorous that so many non football playing fans think they can kick back and rewind their dvr and offer serious criticism.  Waste of time.  I played baseball at a high level and have been a professional scout.  I avoid discussing baseball with parents etc.. because they don't know what the hell they are talking about most of the time.

 

Again, fully expect a lot of people to disagree, but I'm just being honest.  Didn't have a problem with Newton on this issue.

I'd have no problem listing to a former WNBA player talking/analyzing the NBA, as opposed to a Male analyst that never played.  To me, its not about the sex, its about the knowledge via experience.

[Busch1724]

The reaction to it is/gonna be toxic. He'll get lambasted, rightully so. However, the reaction to this between the coasts will be much different than the reaction to the coasts. When there are female hosts/cohosts on shows like Lebetard, the females get roasted, absolutely roasted, on social media. 

[CRobi21]

Youd think Cam would be able to relate to the reporter. 

 

Hes shown feminine qualities in the past.. 

 

[codeorama]

1 minute ago, Busch1724 said:

The reaction to it is/gonna be toxic. He'll get lambasted, rightully so. However, the reaction to this between the coasts will be much different than the reaction to the coasts. When there are female hosts/cohosts on shows like Lebetard, the females get roasted, absolutely roasted, on social media. 

 

I thinks is wrong what goes on with social media, people are disgusting.  No doubt about that.  But I think sometimes in our effort to be inclusive, we put people in situations where they may not belong.  I don't think women belong in NFL locker rooms.  Nothing against women, but I just don't think its appropriate.  I don't know the answer to this, but are men allowed all access to female locker rooms in women's sports?  

 

[LadySkinsFan]

I get where you are coming from. 

 

However, based on your criteria, no female can ever ask questions of a any person in a male sport anything other than non technical related questions. In my opinion, that pretty much outlaws females from that side of journalism.  And in my opinion that's sexism.

 

And based on your criteria, no male can ever ask questions of any person in a female sport other than non technical related questions. In my opinion, that pretty much outlaws males from that side of journalism. As we all know, this is not the case. Male journalists covering female sports report on technical and non technical aspects of female sports all day every day.

 

People can be students of a sport without ever playing it, don't you think? Male or female. 

[Busch1724]

3 minutes ago, codeorama said:

 

I thinks is wrong what goes on with social media, people are disgusting.  No doubt about that.  But I think sometimes in our effort to be inclusive, we put people in situations where they may not belong.  I don't think women belong in NFL locker rooms.  Nothing against women, but I just don't think its appropriate.  I don't know the answer to this, but are men allowed all access to female locker rooms in women's sports?  

 

 

There's some validity to that. Easy solution, don't allow reporters in a locker room at all in all sports. Press conferences serve the same purpose. Better yet, let them interview on the field/court/etc. for 10 minutes or so before heading to the locker room since the reaction to that rule would be, "How can we capture the emotion of the moment?"

[codeorama]

Just now, Busch1724 said:

 

There's some validity to that. Easy solution, don't allow reporters in a locker room at all in all sports. Press conferences serve the same purpose. Better yet, let them interview on the field/court/etc. for 10 minutes or so before heading to the locker room since the reaction to that rule would be, "How can we capture the emotion of the moment?"

 

Totally agree.  

4 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

I get where you are coming from. 

 

However, based on your criteria, no female can ever ask questions of a any person in a male sport anything other than non technical related questions. In my opinion, that pretty much outlaws females from that side of journalism.  And in my opinion that's sexism.

 

And based on your criteria, no male can ever ask questions of any person in a female sport other than non technical related questions. In my opinion, that pretty much outlaws males from that side of journalism. As we all know, this is not the case. Male journalists covering female sports report on technical and non technical aspects of female sports all day every day.

 

People can be students of a sport without ever playing it, don't you think? Male or female. 

 

 

Asking questions and analyzing the technical aspects are 2 different things.  

If a man was analyzing gymnastics and he had never been a gymnast, I'd think that was pretty dumb.  Has nothing to do with the sex.  Why would anyone want to hear me analyze football when I never played.  Baseball is a different story.  Being a student of the game does not qualify a person IMO.

[LadySkinsFan]

Not all sports journalists, of any sex, play the sport they report on.

 

So let me summarize what you are positing, if someone has never played the sport that they are reporting on, they shouldn't be allowed to report on that sport. Do I have your position correct?

[TheGreatBuzz]

I think the issue is that he didn't say "It's funny when someone who hasn't played talks about routes", but specifically said "women".  Definitely came out wrong assuming he meant the former.

 

I remember a bunch of talk about female reporters in the locker rooms a while back.  What was the final resolution?  Are they allowed in?  And are male reporters allowed in female locker rooms?  

 

I am fine with just not allowing reporters in locker rooms.

[codeorama]

Just now, LadySkinsFan said:

Not all sports journalists, of any sex, play the sport they report on.

 

So let me summarize what you are positing, if someone has never played the sport that they are reporting on, they shouldn't be allowed to report on that sport. Do I have your position correct?

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed.  I'm saying I could care less what they have to say. 

Maybe part of the issue is that reporting is no longer reporting. Reporting should be stating the facts. Analysis is a different thing and IMO should require experience. Ultimately its up to an employer to hire who they see fit.  Women have probably benefitted from being women in regards to getting some jobs, just as they may have been discriminated in other circumstances. 

For me, I can't take anyone seriously when they are an analyst and they didn't play the sport.

1 minute ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I think the issue is that he didn't say "It's funny when someone who hasn't played talks about routes", but specifically said "women".  Definitely came out wrong assuming he meant the former.

 

I remember a bunch of talk about female reporters in the locker rooms a while back.  What was the final resolution?  Are they allowed in?  And are male reporters allowed in female locker rooms?  

 

I am fine with just not allowing reporters in locker rooms.

 

 

Totally agree, I think he meant it as someone who didn't play, but the way he said he definitely could have been better.

[TheGreatBuzz]

For the record, I think Cam actually did mean women and believes in the sexism that him comment represented.  But I also don't like him so it's easy for me to assume the worst.

[LadySkinsFan]

So, this is your personal opinion and how you think of sports analysts.

 

As long as you don't set limits on people's employment.

 

I didn't hear what Cam said. I was commenting on codeorama posted.

[Popeman38]

16 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

I get where you are coming from. 

 

However, based on your criteria, no female can ever ask questions of a any person in a male sport anything other than non technical related questions. In my opinion, that pretty much outlaws females from that side of journalism.  And in my opinion that's sexism.

 

And based on your criteria, no male can ever ask questions of any person in a female sport other than non technical related questions. In my opinion, that pretty much outlaws males from that side of journalism. As we all know, this is not the case. Male journalists covering female sports report on technical and non technical aspects of female sports all day every day.

 

People can be students of a sport without ever playing it, don't you think? Male or female. 

Women's locker rooms are closed to male reporters until every female has showered and dressed, no matter how long.  Female reporters are allowed in.  This provides a MASSIVE advantage in reactions, quotes, and context.  Mens locker rooms are open to female reports after 15 minutes, with naked men in showers and getting dressed constantly parading past. Why is that?  There are two standards already applied to reporters.

[LadySkinsFan]

2 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

Women's locker rooms are closed to male reporters until every female has showered and dressed, no matter how long.  Female reporters are allowed in.  This provides a MASSIVE advantage in reactions, quotes, and context.  Mens locker rooms are open to female reports after 15 minutes, with naked men in showers and getting dressed constantly parading past. Why is that?  There are two standards already applied to reporters.

 

That's not right. Allow access after games, not in locker rooms. Then access after the locker rooms, for both sexes for both male and female sports. Equality should apply to both.

[codeorama]

7 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

For the record, I think Cam actually did mean women and believes in the sexism that him comment represented.  But I also don't like him so it's easy for me to assume the worst.

 

I don't like him for the record either.

[Bang]

I will give my impression of it as a female reporter on the next episode of the Bang Radio Hour.

 

Due out this weekend

 

~Plug

[The Sisko]

37 minutes ago, codeorama said:

Asking questions and analyzing the technical aspects are 2 different things.  

If a man was analyzing gymnastics and he had never been a gymnast, I'd think that was pretty dumb.  Has nothing to do with the sex.  Why would anyone want to hear me analyze football when I never played.  Baseball is a different story.  Being a student of the game does not qualify a person IMO.

 

I think you're right, to a point. As you mentioned, most of the analysts that haven't played the game at a high level don't fully know about everything that makes a given play work or not. However, the good ones can study it and understand it well enough to get by. The reason this is good enough, is that former pro/college sports players are few and far between. The vast majority of the viewing public is made up of us ignorant schmucks so that's who they're really catering to. 

[Hersh]

I think the OP demonstrates an extreme narrow minded view in life. Didn't serve in the military, don't report on or ask questions about wars. Not a politician, don't care to hear your analysis of politics. All of those positions would be...maybe not the best way to educate oneself.

 

My point is that all of society is filled with people analyzing things they were never at the highest levels of and they often present valuable information if we are smart enough to be open minded. 

[StillUnknown]

1 minute ago, Hersh said:

I think the OP demonstrates an extreme narrow minded view in life. Didn't serve in the military, don't report on or ask questions about wars. Not a politician, don't care to hear your analysis of politics. All of those positions would be...maybe not the best way to educate oneself.

 

My point is that all of society is filled with people analyzing things they were never at the highest levels of and they often present valuable information if we are smart enough to be open minded. 

 

not to mention that there are some people who played the game who are absolute idiots when they do analysis 

[abdcskins]

The fact that he laughed then specifically mentioned, "it's funny to hear a female talk about routes," is the problem.  Not a reporter, but a female.  I also read that she tried to go talk to him afterwards and he refused to apologize.  The guy is an egotistical moron.  He will never be a leader or win a championship.

[Destino]

What Cam meant on this doesn't matter.  He said what he said how he said it and it looks bad.   It also doesn't matter if Cam respects her knowledge on the subject.  It's work.  His answering questions is work.  The reporters are there to work.  Professionalism demands he behave a certain way.  

 

Also if you refer to women as "females" in a professional setting, you're putting everyone's sexism radar on high alert.  

 

[DogofWar1]

Here's something else, Cam is paid, in part, to be in front of the cameras answering questions.

 

I understand the argument that people who haven't played are less likely to be students of the game, though I don't think it bars a person from being a student of the game to have not played the sport.

 

Many male reporters haven't played the sport either.  Some have, but lots of people in the room with Cam yesterday hadn't.

 

So to the point, I think Cam ought to have answered the question on the question's merits.  Plenty of reporters asking technical questions have never played, and if the view, like OP's, is that if you haven't played at a high level I just won't converse on technical aspects, fine, BUT Cam is paid to answer these questions.  He doesn't really get the luxury of choosing who asks them, male or female, played or didn't.

 

And of course there's the other layer that he's expressely questioning a woman's technical knowledge while he's probably answered other technical questions from males who have not played, which is to say it goes to gender not to whether someone played, or at least by all appearances it does.

[Springfield]

We shouldn’t put as much value into sports as we currently do.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Not a big Cam Newton fan myself, but I really don't think he meant anything by it.  I think he actually thought it was kind of funny and a first to get that kind of question from a female reporter.  Big mistake for him that is going to cost him some endorsement $ but hardly worthy of getting bent out of shape about.

[PleaseBlitz]

Without opining on Cam directly, I think it is ridiculous to think that someone that hasn't played the game in the NFL or college is unable to understand the game as well as anyone..  

 

Kevin Colbert, GM of the Steelers with 2 Super Bowls on his resume, never played past high school. 

 

Jerry Reese (Giants, also 2 Super Bowls) never got past the freshman squat at the University of Tennessee.....at Martin (not Knoxville).

Howie Roseman (Eagles, obviously no Super Bowls, LOL) never played in college, went to law school and got a job as a salary cap analyst and worked his way up.

 

The Skins own former GM, Scot McCloughan, who I thought was doing a really good job before he got fired and is very clearly a tremendous talent evaluator, never played football, he was a scout's son and played minor league baseball.  

 

20 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

And of course there's the other layer that he's expressely questioning a woman's technical knowledge while he's probably answered other technical questions from males who have not played, which is to say it goes to gender not to whether someone played, or at least by all appearances it does.

 

Seriously.  Nobody, to my knowledge, ever questioned Tony Kornheiser asking questions and he probably has barely enough athletic ability to put on a shirt.