Chris Baker vs Joe Barry

[skinzplay]

Would love to know exactly what Baker said, and what precipitated the exchange. We all know that Barry is about as deserving of a DC post as the last guy we had in there. Still can't figure out why he, of all people, was actually hired, especially when Wade was available and actually wanted the job. We could've simply promoted KO. Dude can't want to be a LB coach for the rest of his life, and I'd imagine that returning to the NFL meant that he wanted to be on a trajectory for more responsibility.

[Cooleyfan1993]

I don't think barry was embarrassed by baker yelling at him. from what I saw, baker was yelling at him, and barry was trying to pay attention to the game so put his hand out to him as if to say "oh shut the **** up!!! talk to the hand!!!". after that confrontation, the defense played so much better, and actually got aggressive. we intercepted manning TWICE (should have been 3, and could have been 4), and one of them was for the game winner!!

in my opinion, barry hasn't been that bad. we did play some great defense during the last 9 games of last season...still plenty of season left to do great things on defense, and I read that we've created turnovers our last FIVE games...something we could never do under haslett. we'll be fine.

[clskinsfan]

3 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

Seems like (from post game talk) the players weren't too happy about Barry's passive system and as a result we got more aggressive. I hope thats the case moving forward because we have some athletic guys who can win a lot of one-on-one matchups (they'll lose some too), but he needs to trust his players more and have consequences like more playing of the guys who make mistakes less (I'm looking at Cravens over Compton).

The trade off to being more aggressive is getting beat deep. But we are getting beat on 3rd and 4th and long anyways. This 3rd and 4th down defense is historically bad. If your gonna get beat I would rather go down swinging. And yes Barry went to a more attacking scheme later in the game. That resulted in a OBJ meltdown with tears (there is no crying in football!) and a nice long example of Eli Face. It was worth that alone. 

 

 

[Gizmo 3squire]

20 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Barry isn't great by any means but this D is just so behind on talent its ridiculous. I think the only guys that would start on another team are Norman, Kerrigan, Breeland and Baker. Maybe with a better coach we're somewhere in the 20th rank instead of near 30th on D but that's about it.

 

I disagree, I think given the right man to lead the defense and we would surprise folks. The talent is there. Yea there needs to be holes to be filled like DT/FS and possibly another pass rusher, but the scheme is dreadful. When you have the DC bringing in toughness, the players follow suit. Hate to say it but look at Gregg Williams when he was here.

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, Gizmo 3squire said:

 

I disagree, I think given the right man to lead the defense and we would surprise folks. The talent is there. Yea there needs to be holes to be filled like DT/FS and possibly another pass rusher, but the scheme is dreadful. When you have the DC bringing in toughness, the players follow suit. Hate to say it but look at Gregg Williams when he was here.

Our entire middle of the defense in putrid. Baker is the only DL that can play. Both MLB's are backups and Both safety's are garbage.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think Barry is awful, but I hate seeing our players act this way. I know it happens in the heat of the game and love the passion, blah blah blah. BUT, as long as Barry is our DC, the players need to show him respect. He's in charge and calling the plays. Now, Baker might not agree (and might be right sometimes), but Barry is more qualified than Chris Baker to lead our defense. 

[Koolblue13]

Yes talent is important and we're lacking in obvious places, but he keeps going to the same generic base 34, with the 3 down linemen spaced out. Our ST is the only one over the 2 guards and the center. Then both OLBs crash the ends of the line, while they run it straight up the middle. That means if our ILBs are actually in a position to make a play, they're getting blocked by a guard while a RB with a head of steam blows into the second level. Now, if our safeties were able to be on the line too, it wouldn't be so bad. However, their passing offense is too good to put anyone else in the box, like ours should be.

[Gizmo 3squire]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I think Barry is awful, but I hate seeing our players act this way. I know it happens in the heat of the game and love the passion, blah blah blah. BUT, as long as Barry is our DC, the players need to show him respect. He's in charge and calling the plays. Now, Baker might not agree (and might be right sometimes), but Barry is more qualified than Chris Baker to lead our defense. 

While I do agree, it's also a sign that these players want to be competitive and WIN. At least they're showing some passion against running these cupcake defense plays. This goes for the OL fussing at McVay about the lack of Run as well. Not only do we see the problem with coaching, the players do too.

You can't be a team contending for the SB w/ mediocre coaching, and they know that.

[Rattlesnake88]

I think Barry, fewell, and Jay were so confident in our secondary and zone coverage that we could force teams into being impatient and force turnovers...

couple issues with us running that scheme. 

A. We can't stop the run 

B. We haven't been playing with a lead at all 

 

point a is an obvious issue because you can't force people to make dumb passes into our secondary when u take chunk yardage on first and second downs in the run game. 

 

Point. B. The pressumed strength of our defense is smith, Murphy, Kerrigan and baker teeing off on obvious passing downs while our cover three zone baits qbs into dumb throws. This plan obviously can't work when you allow teams ball control and early leads.

 

I think whenever the skins get a jump on teams we will be surprised by the defense maybe. But man o man we need some thumpers  and plugs in the run game.

[Gamebreaker]

4 hours ago, UK_HOG said:

Jim Schwartz and Wade Philips were both unemployed when Barry was made DC. 

Yes, and Wade helped Denver when a championship last year. 

[gortiz]

4 hours ago, zoony said:

Do we know what that was about, what was said, how they're feeling today?

 

Joe Barry "that was awful gap control, Chris"

Chris Baker "check the stats, ****"

 

???!

did you read their lips?? god I wish I could do that. 

I have a friend, sports nut, that can do that on tap ... its like he's watching a different game then us!

3 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

Yes, and Wade helped Denver when a championship last year. 

Denver was  MUCH better gig than us.

schwartz runs a 4-3

[Momma There Goes That Man]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

There is absolutely no way that "he could take my job" comes into play when  hiring assistant coaches. That's an ESism.

Well, I'd rather believe that than that it was just complete incompetence during the hiring process. 

3 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said:

Yes, and Wade helped Denver when a championship last year. 

I thought the inside report was that Wade was too old and they wanted a younger DC. I remember that being as reason given as to why they stayed away

[Burgold]

I know this is a Barry thread, but I'm going to use it as a playcalling thread for a moment. Hope that's okay.

Part of me wonders if McVay learned the wrong lesson from last year. Last year, he was so conservative that the team failed to win. It was run, run, pass. Run, run, pass. We were predictable. Then, he finally realized he could get away with agressive play and we began to do better.

Fast forward to 2016 and McVay has all but abandoned the run. Part of me wonders if he doesn't realize that running the ball doesn't mean you are not being aggressive. Those aren't just throw away plays and keep the defense honest plays. You can attack with the run too.

McVay does understand that we need to be aggressive on offense, but that doesn't mean we have to be pass only!

5 minutes ago, gortiz said:

schwartz runs a 4-3

And so should we... in fact, we kind of do since we almost always have one linebacker rushing.

[Gamebreaker]

6 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I thought the inside report was that Wade was too old and they wanted a younger DC. I remember that being as reason given as to why they stayed away

Pretty dumb reason if you ask me. If his brain is still sharp what does his age matter? It's not like we need him to suit up. 

[William Barbour]

4 hours ago, Boss_Hogg said:

It was after this play. What kind of goalline spacing is this?

Baker is playing the wrong technique here, but Barry has been struggling. If you think the Baker vs Barry thing is interesting. Check what Blackmon said after the game in a post game interview.

"Joe B allowed us to be more aggressive in the 2nd half. We have so many athletes and he just needs to let us play"

[Burgold]

Just now, Gamebreaker said:

Pretty dumb reason if you ask me. If his brain is still sharp what does his age matter? It's not like we need him to suit up. 

I still think that a part of why Gruden went to Barry was self-preservation. He was very much on the hotseat at the start of 15 and he didn't want a guy who the Front Office might strongly consider being a midseason replacement. I think congruent with that is that since so many knew that Gruden was on a very short leash they didn't want to tie themselves to Gruden for what could very well be only a one year gig... so their demands were probably on the very high/unreasonable side.

[wilco_holland]

Hmm so it's a one on one Baker VS Barry? 

I think I take Baker. Barry looks fit but Baker is just nasty

[bobandweave]

12 minutes ago, Burgold said:

McVay does understand that we need to be aggressive on offense, but that doesn't mean we have to be pass only!

We didn't. Its not lost on me that with the talent on the team being good in some areas, poor in others, and with the NFL being such a short season and based on our recent 1-2 years success that the key to winning for us is to be aggressive on both sides of the ball. We won yesterday and Cousins only threw 35 times which wasn't pass aggressive but the difference for us winning and losing yesterday was how aggressive our Defense was. We have to do that. A loss by 50 is the same as a loss by 1 point. Take the training wheels off this team and stay aggressive on both sides of the ball and we can hang with anyone I think

[skinzplay]

9 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I still think that a part of why Gruden went to Barry was self-preservation. He was very much on the hotseat at the start of 15 and he didn't want a guy who the Front Office might strongly consider being a midseason replacement. I think congruent with that is that since so many knew that Gruden was on a very short leash they didn't want to tie themselves to Gruden for what could very well be only a one year gig... so their demands were probably on the very high/unreasonable side.

Yep, I can definitely buy this. I know that when Shanahan was trying to put his staff together, he was rebuffed by all 3 of his top choices for DC (Zimmer being the #1 choice) because, for whatever reason, they wanted no part of being in Washington. So unfortunately - and it was the most unfortunate of unfortunate turns - he had to turn to Haslett and bring him back into the NFL.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

2 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

So unfortunately - and it was the most unfortunate of unfortunate turns

On that note, the whole Mike Shanahan era could be used as the plot for Lemony Snickets 2: An Even Worse Series of Unfortunate Events

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

Our entire middle of the defense in putrid. Baker is the only DL that can play. Both MLB's are backups and Both safety's are garbage.

To be fair to the ILBs it a tough position to play if the D'Line in front of you are not doing their jobs. I know we are playing 1 gap but far too often our ILBs are fighting off blocks of 300lb plus O'Line men at the second level. That said I do agree they need to play better - too many missed tackles. 

Its 3rd downs that are killing us though. We have to be more aggressive on those downs because rushing 3 or 4 and dropping into coverage is not getting it done. Kerrigan and Smith getting some pressure would help, right now they are being outplayed by Trent Murphy.

[ExoDus84]

25 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

Hmm so it's a one on one Baker VS Barry? 

I think I take Baker. Barry looks fit but Baker is just nasty

You should expand your sig photo to include the team defense YTD stats for 2016.

Per game averages (rank) so far in 2016:

Yards: 424.7 (30)

Pass: 301.7 (26)

Rush: 123 (26)

Points: 30.7 (30)
 

I'm with Baker on this one.

[Commander -JB-]

Joe Barry is a dufus.  A sideline argument was bound to happen.  Fire the guy already.

[NewCliche21]

Word around the press box was that Baker called it a disagreement on the goal line series.  I was about five reporters deep in the locker room and Baker has one of the softest (as in not loud) speaking voices I heard in there.

[Koolblue13]

Should let Baker fire him at a press conference and embarrass him out of the league. What a putz.