Hail4Life Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 I've read that some fans would rather have good old Haslett over Barry, but those people might want to think about that again...do you remember how historically bad the defense was? The lack of turnovers? Offenses moving the ball at will? The inability to stop teams from setting franchise records against our defense? I guess time erodes the memory. I would rather have Barry but just barely, he has shown us less bad defensive games than Haz did. Not that Barry has been impressive by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 I'd choose a smallpox blanket over both of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 I'd choose a semi-automatic to play Russian roulette over them. Beat that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Part of me is still wondering what exactly is wrong with Barry. I mean, so far in ~2.2 years as a DC, I'm not impressed. But is he a good teacher? His defense last year did get turnovers and get off the field on 3rd downs. Is he too loyal to vets (ala Randy Wittman)? Are his schemes too simple? I don't want to just say that if we had a JJ Watt, we'd be better because the Giants game showed that we could be better if we just changed styles. Is he committed to a style he doesn't know. Or that our players aren't suited for, and if so, why? I saw a lot of zone on OBJs completions, but i wonder if Breeland is better at man. I wish he'd blitz more. Is it as simple as not wanting to rush players like Fuller, Cravens, Spaight, and others into action and thus depending on vets who are less talented? Or is it that the vets aren't executing the scheme correctly and leaving gaps? I really want him to succeed, but i hope he isn't too hard headed to improve himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Skins Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Would anyone be complaining about Barry if our offense converted on even half the gift wrapped opportunities his defense has given them so far this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 28 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said: Would anyone be complaining about Barry if our offense converted on even half the gift wrapped opportunities his defense has given them so far this season? Awful defense is awful defense. Scoring more in the red zone might have given us another win but then our offense would just be covering up his crap defense. No way around it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Skins Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 18 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Awful defense is awful defense. Scoring more in the red zone might have given us another win but then our offense would just be covering up his crap defense. No way around it I mean I agree that the defense ( especially the run defense) has been atrocious. Just wondering if a lot of the fan outrage is skewed because of the lack of points we come away with. Speaking personally I don't care how many yards we give up as long as we can make a stop or a turnover in crunch time and give the offense a chance to win. Barry's defense is far from perfect, but he's given our team a chance to throw an early knockout punch every single week this season. The offense is the one letting the other team hang around by not doing their job. I doubt the run defense gets exposed so much if the other team is playing from behind and forced to throw more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said: Part of me is still wondering what exactly is wrong with Barry. I mean, so far in ~2.2 years as a DC, I'm not impressed. But is he a good teacher? His defense last year did get turnovers and get off the field on 3rd downs. Is he too loyal to vets (ala Randy Wittman)? Are his schemes too simple? I don't want to just say that if we had a JJ Watt, we'd be better because the Giants game showed that we could be better if we just changed styles. Is he committed to a style he doesn't know. Or that our players aren't suited for, and if so, why? I saw a lot of zone on OBJs completions, but i wonder if Breeland is better at man. I wish he'd blitz more. Is it as simple as not wanting to rush players like Fuller, Cravens, Spaight, and others into action and thus depending on vets who are less talented? Or is it that the vets aren't executing the scheme correctly and leaving gaps? I really want him to succeed, but i hope he isn't too hard headed to improve himself I believe that Barry's been timid this year and doesn't seem to trust his players enough so far. We're basically seeing the same defense than last year except we're having less injuries. We've tried some experiment that aren't working great (Hall at FS). Middle of the defense is still questionable (really disappointed with Compton and Foster so far). Hopefully that will improve as season goes by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginsu101 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 43 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said: I mean I agree that the defense ( especially the run defense) has been atrocious. Just wondering if a lot of the fan outrage is skewed because of the lack of points we come away with. Speaking personally I don't care how many yards we give up as long as we can make a stop or a turnover in crunch time and give the offense a chance to win. Barry's defense is far from perfect, but he's given our team a chance to throw an early knockout punch every single week this season. The offense is the one letting the other team hang around by not doing their job. I doubt the run defense gets exposed so much if the other team is playing from behind and forced to throw more. I totally get your point on this. If the offense clicks and actually scores points, it potentially changes the other team's game plan. I feel many fans get upset with our D based on the amount of 3rd downs we allow to be converted. So far the Skins are last in the league with 19 out of 35 for 54.3%. This is a chance to get off the field and stop their scoring opportunity. I don't have the stat and I'm sure it's just pure emotion on my part, but it sure does seem like we are giving up extremely long yards on 3rd down this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 27 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Awful defense is awful defense. Scoring more in the red zone might have given us another win but then our offense would just be covering up his crap defense. No way around it I bet we find out against a team everyone should be able to beat, but is averaging over 6 yards a run and has a QB that's executing PA and Bootlegs exceptionally well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 2 hours ago, Reaper Skins said: Would anyone be complaining about Barry if our offense converted on even half the gift wrapped opportunities his defense has given them so far this season? Its cool to think along these lines, but the same thing can be said about our offense. Would people be complaining about Kirk if our defense was able to stop Dallas at all? We can say what if we had talent along the DL / ILB, but supposedly we're stacked at CB and OLB, but he hasn't been able to design a scheme that minimizes out weaknesses and maximizes our skills. Is that impossible to do? And what surprises me about the Barry & RJF comments on Barry is that it seems that players are noticing things that Barry's not seeing. Is this true? Is he seeing it, but not acting? Is he trusting other players too much? Is he trusting himself too much, thinking he knows how the other OC thinks instead of what a given personnel says? I don't know. I want him to do well and I was advocating for us to not jump to conclusions when we first hired him, but now I'm seeing this and wondering if he's Haslett version 2 (with more turnovers). Then I wonder if Gruden is Norv 2.0 - a guy who's a good OC but a crappy HC because he doesn't care about defense. Not in the Gibbs sense where he trusts his DC to get the job done, but in the sense that he just wants to score 40 points a game and doesn't hold his DC accountable. Like, I like that he and Barry were friends before they made it, but if the dude isn't doing his job then he needs to be fired, and Scot or Snyder or Bruce shouldn't be the one to give him the pink slip. It should be Gruden. I'm really getting memories of Ron Lynn and Mike Nolan back in the late 90s and its not a good feeling. 6 hours ago, Wildbunny said: I believe that Barry's been timid this year and doesn't seem to trust his players enough so far. We're basically seeing the same defense than last year except we're having less injuries. We've tried some experiment that aren't working great (Hall at FS). Middle of the defense is still questionable (really disappointed with Compton and Foster so far). Hopefully that will improve as season goes by. Whose fault is this though? Hindsight says maybe we should have had more of a rotation at S, ILB and DL. Those are our weaknesses where we have a lot of guys vying for spots, so why not play a lot of them and see who wins? Its not like QB where we can only have one. But week 1 Duke is inactive? Maybe thats on Jay but Cravens gets no snaps on defense until Compton gets hurt, then he leads to the only 3 and out? Its just questionable calls like this. I really expected to see A LOT more Duke than I did so far. And not that I expected to see more Cravens, but more of a rotation at ILB since nobody was a clear cut winner of the position. Maybe Spaight's injury hurt that and Cravens being a tweener, but why is he talking about limiting the snaps of our best players on defense in Kerrigan and Smith but not at our weak spots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 6 hours ago, Thinking Skins said: Whose fault is this though? Hindsight says maybe we should have had more of a rotation at S, ILB and DL. Those are our weaknesses where we have a lot of guys vying for spots, so why not play a lot of them and see who wins? Its not like QB where we can only have one. But week 1 Duke is inactive? Maybe thats on Jay but Cravens gets no snaps on defense until Compton gets hurt, then he leads to the only 3 and out? Its just questionable calls like this. I really expected to see A LOT more Duke than I did so far. And not that I expected to see more Cravens, but more of a rotation at ILB since nobody was a clear cut winner of the position. Maybe Spaight's injury hurt that and Cravens being a tweener, but why is he talking about limiting the snaps of our best players on defense in Kerrigan and Smith but not at our weak spots? 100% agree. If Scott provides the players, it's the coaches that decide who plays and who doesn't. So it's 100% on them. And as you, I'm wondering with some of the choices that are made regarding our starting lineup and rotation guys. I can see the point of having Compton on the field as he seems (according to coaches) to be the best at calling plays. Still, he often seems to face a G on every running plays and doesn't have any chances against then. Our S play is suspect at best and then I'm wondering why they aren't giving more chances to those subs. That is up to the coaches, maybe they didn't reach their fed up limit to bench a guy in favor of another. I don't know... But's starting lineup is definately on coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 The disturbing part of Compton vs a Guard is, that it's almost by design. Our design. Compton seems late to move and really has no other choice but to fill his gap.... filled by a mauling G already moving 15 mph. We show the same look over and over and sure enough the offense runs the same play so it happens time and time again. Barry seems to be playing pass far more often than offenses wants to pass. His scheme puts lots of pressure on DBs to stop the run. We often hear it's a passing league. Teams are still smart enough to run if defenses blindly overplay the pass or have a soft front, like in the famous goal line play that set off Baker. When Barry finally moves everyone up, everyone, fans included, can read it easily presnap (vs masking/delayed blitz), so QBs go PA and crush our spirit. He needs to show blitz and back them off a few times. Get it on tape, be less predictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortisBetts Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 9 hours ago, RandyHolt said: The disturbing part of Compton vs a Guard is, that it's almost by design. Our design. Compton seems late to move and really has no other choice but to fill his gap.... filled by a mauling G already moving 15 mph. We show the same look over and over and sure enough the offense runs the same play so it happens time and time again. Barry seems to be playing pass far more often than offenses wants to pass. His scheme puts lots of pressure on DBs to stop the run. We often hear it's a passing league. Teams are still smart enough to run if defenses blindly overplay the pass or have a soft front, like in the famous goal line play that set off Baker. When Barry finally moves everyone up, everyone, fans included, can read it easily presnap (vs masking/delayed blitz), so QBs go PA and crush our spirit. He needs to show blitz and back them off a few times. Get it on tape, be less predictable. Same thing today. Running nickel, pull the guard and have him blast through the hole. We have seen the same exact run style for 4 weeks now and the defense still trots out the same garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidley Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 I would take a nutless monkey over Haslett or Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 The personnel on defense is awful. We know it, but SO SHOULD BARRY. When you have a lack of talent on defense the only way to counter act that is to try and scheme your way into favorable positions and perhaps take more chances. So far in 2016 timely turnovers have saved this team from being 0-4. The defense wasn't any good in either of the wins, but the turnovers kept them in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammajamma Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Not sure why they closed the game thread so early. So I guess we discuss the game here? Anyway, kinda crazy Jones is the #1 running back this week after poor a rushing attack weeks 1-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 4 minutes ago, mammajamma said: Not sure why they closed the game thread so early. So I guess we discuss the game here? Anyway, kinda crazy Jones is the #1 running back this week after poor a rushing attack weeks 1-3 Gruden was reading coaching for dummies. 8 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: The personnel on defense is awful. We know it, but SO SHOULD BARRY. When you have a lack of talent on defense the only way to counter act that is to try and scheme your way into favorable positions and perhaps take more chances. So far in 2016 timely turnovers have saved this team from being 0-4. The defense wasn't any good in either of the wins, but the turnovers kept them in the game. I've given up on him and the 3-4 experiment. Scot HAS to see he's not the answer. Better players, yes we could use them, especially on the line and LBers, but Barry doesn't seem to know how to attack weaknesses, he plays a very similar Haslett read-and-react defense. Blitzing is almost non-existent, we're relying on mistakes by opponents for stops. I haven't looked at any stats, but I bet our defense has forced the least amount of punts, and probably our defense has to be in the top 3 of playing time, being they can't stop anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 12 minutes ago, mammajamma said: Not sure why they closed the game thread so early. No idea. Maybe they should have mentioned something about it in the opening post. Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammajamma Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 13 minutes ago, TK said: No idea. Maybe they should have mentioned something about it in the opening post. Or something. Was about to say something back along the lines of you having jokes,etc, but you did put it in red, so my bad. Youre off the hook this time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 33 minutes ago, mammajamma said: Was about to say something back along the lines of you having jokes,etc, but you did put it in red, so my bad. Youre off the hook this time That's it. You're on the List. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammajamma Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 26 minutes ago, TK said: That's it. You're on the List. Sweet! Thanks. Love me some Chris Jericho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 *Awaits TK's response anxiously* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 23 minutes ago, mammajamma said: Sweet! Thanks. Love me some Chris Jericho Watch it or you're gonna get IT. Rule 11 gets you on the List. A. Gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 TK pulled a TSO and went sawwwwft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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