Welcome to the Commanders Ben Sinnott TE Kansas State

[method man]

I think a number of folks are potentially underrating the contribution Rogers can make. He is another guy who is very smart and gas superior athleticism - him getting carries in 2022 symbolizes that. He got hurt early enough last year that he should be 100% by the time camp starts. With his ex QB brain, he’s probably been taking mental reps too. I think the new coaching staff is going to be surprised learning what they have in him. With Sinnott in fold, what is interesting now are the different skillsets at play and the mixing and matching you can do in 12 personnel

[sinews]

5 minutes ago, method man said:

He got hurt early enough last year that he should be 100% by the time camp starts.

If he is then I fully expect him to get his shot and compete like everyone else. I also didn't want to shut the door on him, think he could ascend over Turner. Would be nice to have more options there. I just don't think Turner can develop into a meaningful contributor at this point and he's probably gone after camp.

[The Consigliere]

On 4/26/2024 at 7:38 PM, PeterMP said:

Like this pick.  Certainly seems like he has a future in the NFL.  Though I guess there is some thought he could have been gotten later.  But have no issues with him here.

Was a really weak TE class, I imagine they didn't like the other options and knew they needed a TE, so worried a team would squeeze a "need" TE pick in before 67....I'm fine w/this in a position group where it's notoriously difficult to even find someone halfway productive. As an example, I was listening to analytics guys on playerprofiler's podcast feed talk about Sinnott in Dynasty and they basically said, paraphrasing, "You can basically plug him in at 10th-12th in dynasty at TE right now." That's how hard its been to find genuine weapons at TE as pass catchers over the years, and why '23 stood out so much. I don't view him as at the same level of Kincaid, or Laporta coming out, at all, and I liked Mayer's profile more, if Sinnott's athleticism more, but it's quite telling, he was a reach at 53, should've gone somewere in the 3rd/compensatory zone, but high stakes, analytics based dynasty players thinks he trumps 2/3's of the starters around the league and I don't entirely disagree. It's fine. A reach yes, but there were basically 3-4 guys you could take total in this class, and only 3 after Bowers, and have any reasonable hope you might have a pass catching starter in year 1 or 2 with the selection. Sinnott's one of them, and he doesn't have any issues in the profile. He's athletic enough if not mega elite athletic, he's productive, he's an adequate to slightly plus blocker so you don't have to take him off the field on run downs. He's the best pass catching TE we've drafted since Jordan Reed and by A LOT. 

On 4/27/2024 at 5:22 AM, Veretax said:

Honestly, wheN i first looked at our needs, and what was available TE I immediately concluded the following:

Bowers is not going to slide that far
The TX fellow disappeared at times to me

Cade STover has incredible hands
But Benn Sinnot seemed to be that Cooley like TE we've been missing.  C ombination of Logan and someone with some blocking skill too.  I didn't think he'd be taken this earlier, figured in the 4th, but I like him as a player a lot.  We played against him in the Big -12 and I just liked the way he moved, he's got a toughness to him that TIght Ends really need to have in this league.  This + urtz I think helps a lot.

And he was the first of my man crush picks that we took.

I liked several of the Linebackers too but Edge I think didn't fit our Scheme needs.

I actually had them Ranked
 

1. Brock Bowers
2. Cade Stover
3. Ben Sinnott
4. Theo Johnson
5. Jaheim Bell
6. Dallin Holker
   
   
   I didn't really like the TX TE, and initially I liked Erick All, but in mocks he was falling WAY down the board by day 1, there must be a red flag on him or something.
   
   This is a case where, I didn't think we'd have space for TE until late 3rd or 4th Rd, and because of that I expected to be taking one of 3-5.  I prefer 3 over 2 as a Player, but I think Stover has a higher ceiling, but I think Ben fits what we need far more.

Thanks for mentioning Stover, I keep forgetting him, I guess there were five worth drafting. I like Stover and Bell more, but I like Sinnott too, and I think Sinnott is safer than Bell, if not the same ceiling and versatility. 

[The Consigliere]

On 4/28/2024 at 11:17 AM, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Ron told me that Cole Turner was gonna be good 🤬😡

He lied, that was always an insanely stupid pick. Bates was a reach too, but at least had some utility. We haven't drafted a TE w/the upside of Sinnott and his floor since Reed a decade ago, it's been a long, ugly slog of JAG's, and this was despite there being good classes in '17, '19, and '23 in particular. Not a smart franchise the last four decades. Hopefully times are a changin, certainly feels like it. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

He lied, that was always an insanely stupid pick. Bates was a reach too, but at least had some utility. We haven't drafted a TE w/the upside of Sinnott and his floor since Reed a decade ago, it's been a long, ugly slog of JAG's, and this was despite there being good classes in '17, '19, and '23 in particular. Not a smart franchise the last four decades. Hopefully times are a changin, certainly feels like it. 

 

It didn't help that the beat writers gassed up Cole Turner too us too.

[The Consigliere]

On 4/30/2024 at 7:00 AM, Koolblue13 said:

He reminds me of Jay Novacek and I think that's his floor, because Novacek didn't play in the golden era of the TE. Some si milarities coming up as a nobody FB and excellent blocker, with sneaky athleticism and surprising receiving ability.

 

I think it's widely known this was the one guy in this draft I was pounding the table for.

Novacek is one of those guys like Gary Clark, that historically disappeared into the ether because they weren't HOF's, but were every bit as impactful as HOF's in their prime's. Novacek was an absolute stone cold killer for the Cowboys 1990 to 1995, just like Clark was for us 1985-1992 (admittedly part of me wonders if Clark would be in the HOF w/o a strike in '87? With no strike that year he probably finishes on 715-720 catches, 11,150 yards, 67 TD's, 6 straight seasons with 1,000 ('86-'91) and those moments in Super Bowl XXII, and XXVI but that's another debate). But Novacek was just sick for the window of Cowboys dominance, and lol, nothing else. I'm kind of stunned to realized he retired after '95, with that last ring. Kinda funny, thought he played a lot longer than that. 

[The Consigliere]

On 4/30/2024 at 3:15 PM, Warhead36 said:

Rookie TEs typically don't produce right away. La Porta is an exception because he went to a team with an already developed QB and OL. 

Yeah it usually takes forever. 

 

Guys I can think of:

Laporta in '23, with Kincaid and Mayer solid

'22 gave us a bunch of 2nd year hits: McBride, Dulcich, Ferguson, Otton, Likely, but I think McBride is the only stud there. 

'21 gave us Pitts and Freiermuth, and I liked Brevin Jordan as a final year dip value but he's been meh.

'20 was a total washout, although Kmet eventually produced, Trautman just became a blocking guy (loved him, whoops)

Hockenson and Fant in '19 (I was a bit Kahale Warring guy lol)

Andrews in '18

Engram and Kittle in '17

 

Its pretty hard to find guys that really hit year 1, I think its just Laporta, Andrews, Engram, and Kittle, even Pitts fell off due to QB play, same with Freiermeuth77>>81 (I can't spell that), the '22 class has a mega stud in McBride, but it took a year, Dulcich got hurt in year 2, Ferguson broke out as a volume jag, Otton is either okay or a volume jag, Im curious about Likely. Laporta broke out, Kincaid was solid, Mayer stunk for a month and then became solid but now he's gonna disappear again. 

[The Consigliere]

On 4/29/2024 at 8:13 AM, Est.1974 said:

I see an instant impact player. Along side Ertz we’ve got a nice 1-2 blend now.

I see Ertz as a 1 and done mentor. He hasn't been productive in years, more of a catch and fall jag for quite a while. He blocked Goedert and Trey for years for no real good reason. I get signing him, we had nothing at the position, and he's a good mentor. But Ertz is a roster clogger for the purposes of Sinnott's career beyond '24. I'm hoping he can just mentor him well for a year, and that's a wrap. The past two years he's ranked in the 20s and 30s in most efficiency ratings (though I will say target separation and cushion #'s aren't as bad as I would've expected). I imagine the 1 year deal underlines this. He comes in, mentors him, that's a wrap. Still, surprised that he does still have some metrics where he's in that 10th-15th area, not bad for a mid thirty year old, especially the metrics that they are. 

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

It didn't help that the beat writers gassed up Cole Turner too us too.

I'd just suggest looking at the stuff and ignoring them.

 

We already debated Daniels to death. If he busts, we know why.

 

With the DT, if he busts its probably related to a recurring foot problem, or him being undersized. That's basically it.

 

If the DB fails, its because he's raw as hell, was a WR for the bulk of his college career, undersized and not versatile positionally.

 

If Sinnott busts, it's almost certainly because he's solid to good at everything but great at nothing.

 

The Guard Prospect seems like a mix of projection, and a preference for versatility. Doesn't seem like the ceiling is super high, more the utility, also don't like that he wasn't as good last year as the year before.

 

McCaffrey is a pure projection pick and betting that his inability to get separation is about being raw to the position rather than lacking a second gear (his top end speed is clearly quite fast).

 

After McCaffrey the picks are so late, its all dart throw prayer projection. They hit if we're lucky (and all have traits, athleticism, and reasoning behind why they went so late), but more likely than not they don't. For those guys we're telling a story about how their traits and athleticism can be pulled out of our great DC, and maybe his position coach, assistants. But truth be told, if we hit on any of the day 3 guys it's a win, same with the UDFA's, each hit is basically against the odds but if you're doing it right, you should land at least 1-2 guys in day 3+UDFA that can earn a 2nd contract in the NFL, but more than that is crazy good fortune, and less isn't surprising. You're playing with 10-20% odds across the boards, and often a lot of those guys hit for contract 1 simply because they land on ---- rosters like ours, and so there is more room and opportunity (like the DB we stole from a bunch of teams as a UDFA). 

 

Edited May 2 by The Consigliere

[skinny21]

@The Consigliere Regarding Sinnot, had some thoughts I wanted to run by you.  Setting aside his elite explosion and agility scores, good 40 time, 19% market share, leading his team in receiving yards and ypc… I feel like it’s important to consider the TE position itself.  I don’t think it’s a coincidence that most of the top teams have studs at the position (KC, SF, PHI, BAL), and I think there’s a reason Eugen Shen sees the position as an analytic advantage.  The draft also had some quality depth at db and receiver, and while there were some interesting (lower ranked) TEs remaining as well, none in the mold of Sinnot - tons of blocking experience, highly athletic, lines up all over, legitimate receiving chops, a focal point of the offense, durable, and fairly young.  And of course, we have very little at the position and it’s the “security blanket” position for a qb, particularly a young one.  Lastly, and I could be way wrong about this, but it feels like TEs have been going a bit higher recently.

[London Kev]

I love this pick. I’ve always wanted us to get a TE/FB hybrid who can catch. He might not be a true hybrid but he’s close enough.

[Koolblue13]

 

[Bifflog]

Cooley's take on Sinnott from Sheehan's podcast:

 

https://thekevinsheehanshow.com/2024/05/03/cooley-film-on-ben-sinnott/

 

Summary below if you don't wanna listen:

 

Cooley sees him as his own doppelganger.

 

Clear H-back, versatile, can line up anywhere, wide, tight, at fullback ,next to the QB.

 

Has to be an intelligent football player to play in as many spots as KS played him.

 

Really good vertical release.

 

Upright runner, but has wheels, runs fast.

 

Good route runner, makes good breaks, comes out of cuts well, friendly to the football for the QB.

 

Hands catcher, not a body catcher.

 

Can climb up and high-point a football.  Marveling over 40" vertical.  Discussion about Sinnott's high RAS score.

 

Tape alone is a 3rd round guy, 4.68 forty and 40" vertical at the combine dictated he had to go in the 2nd.

 

Awesome run after the catch.  Doesn't run over guys, but bounces off of them and hard to bring down.

 

Re-iterates truly outstanding versatility.

 

Only average as a blocker in the run game.  Willing, and can play physical when he can make good contact.  Some misses, which Cooley attributes to most likely he's closing his eyes a few yards from contact, which was an issue for him early in his career.  Easily fixable.

 

Sees a few more drops than he'd like but was really digging for negatives and doesn't think its actually an issue.

 

Really likes him as a player, big fan.  Sees him as a 40% of snaps guys early, 70% later in year 1.  Won't come off the field in year 2.

 

 

[sinews]

I don't listen to this show, not a fan of the hosts but they always seem to get the first interviews. So if you want to hear the man speak there's some good stuff here. He sounds all business and ready to kick some ass. 

 

 

 

 

When we look back on this draft I hope we can say that JD was the best player taken, but if you were to tell me it would rather be Sinnott I wouldn't have trouble believing that. He's the total package, just needs experience to develop.

 

Furthermore, let's just clear up the pronunciation because even our own media guys (Logan) are still calling him Sin-not. It's pronounced "senate," like in Congress–the house and senate. Thank you for your time lol. 

 

Edit: okay, let's go with "Sin-it," that's phonetically closer than "senate," my bad. 

Edited May 6 by sinews

[redskinss]

7 minutes ago, sinews said:

Furthermore, let's just clear up the pronunciation because even our own media guys (Logan) are still calling him Sin-not. It's pronounced "senate," like in Congress–the house and senate. Thank you for your time lol. 

Not according to him.

In the interview he said "sin it" not senate.

[sinews]

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

In the interview he said "sin it" not senate.

Okay, close enough for me, at least with my accent. Better than "Sin-not."

[bowhunter]

5 minutes ago, sinews said:

Okay, close enough for me, at least with my accent. Better than "Sin-not."

Heck both of y'all are better than me on this one. I was going to continue saying stuff like "Ben just  knocked the Sinnot out of that guy."  ie "Sa-Nott"

[skinny21]

On 5/2/2024 at 8:51 AM, method man said:

I think a number of folks are potentially underrating the contribution Rogers can make. He is another guy who is very smart and gas superior athleticism - him getting carries in 2022 symbolizes that. He got hurt early enough last year that he should be 100% by the time camp starts. With his ex QB brain, he’s probably been taking mental reps too. I think the new coaching staff is going to be surprised learning what they have in him. With Sinnott in fold, what is interesting now are the different skillsets at play and the mixing and matching you can do in 12 personnel

Would be big for us if Rogers can contribute anywhere near what his traits/intangibles suggest is possible.

 

Dang, just noticed he’s a FA after this year.

[Conn]

I would be pretty surprised if we didn’t have a productive rookie on our hands here. Daniels to Sinnott is going to be eye-opening 

[DWinzit]

While not as popular and Daniels, I expect Sinnott's jersey sales to be very high and a fan favorite for years to come

[kingdaddy]

Our TE room is very different heading into this season...I wonder where things stand with Turner and Armani Roger's in this year's plans? Is Bates a roster lock? Does Sinnott jump to #2 on the depth chart assuming Ertz is #1?

[bird_1972]

21 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Our TE room is very different heading into this season...I wonder where things stand with Turner and Armani Roger's in this year's plans? Is Bates a roster lock? Does Sinnott jump to #2 on the depth chart assuming Ertz is #1?

 

I think Bates is the safest of the three. Rogers is still a project and it looks like Turner is a bust.

[FootballZombie]

I think Rodgers and Turner r fighting 4 TE 4. I value Bates blocking in an o that will have runners in space

Edited May 9 by FootballZombie

[DWinzit]

Jersey #82, yessir!!!

[RWJ]

10 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Jersey #82, yessir!!!

Logan Thomas and Logan Paulsen's numbers.