Welcome to the Commanders Jayden Daniels QB LSU

[profusion]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree and said so as for that clip. 

 

My point was lol we are going to get those comps for years I gather.  Especially in this case where the narraitves seem clear that Peters was smitten with Daniels and I gather not so much Maye considering he had McCarthy ahead of him.

 

Back to Maye, I think it simply might take time with him.  He's going to be 22 this season. 

 

 

It's starting to be clear that Maye needs to sit for at least a year. The Patriots have that luxury by having Brissett around, as well as a disaster of an offensive roster that might even take longer to fix than ours will. No "win now" going on in Foxboro. Their whiny, entitled fans might disagree, but that's what Jerrod Mayo got himself into...

 

The Commanders don't have that luxury and need a Week 1 starter.

Edited May 12 by profusion

[mistertim]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree and said so as for that clip. 

 

My point was lol we are going to get those comps for years I gather.  Especially in this case where the narraitves seem clear that Peters was smitten with Daniels and I gather not so much Maye considering he had McCarthy ahead of him.

 

Back to Maye, I think it simply might take time with him.  He's going to be 22 this season. 

 

 

Yeah, agreed. And for the record I wasn't giving you a hard time for posting that clip (I know you said it was sketchy), I was just commenting further.

 

I'd actually be pretty surprised if Maye didn't look much less polished at this point than Daniels. Pretty much everyone knew that would likely be the case at first, even big Maye supporters.

 

27 minutes ago, profusion said:

The Commanders don't have that luxury and need a Week 1 starter.

 

Why? We aren't exactly in danger of going to the Super Bowl this season and we're in year 1 of a rebuild with a new FO, HC, and owner. 

 

I'm not saying Daniels should sit, just that this sentiment seems to come with no actual reasoning or evidence.

Edited May 12 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

It's starting to be clear that Maye needs to sit for at least a year. The Patriots have that luxury by having Brissett around, as well as a disaster of an offensive roster that might even take longer to fix than ours will. No "win now" going on in Foxboro. Their whiny, entitled fans might disagree, but that's what Jerrod Mayo got himself into...

 

The Commanders don't have that luxury and need a Week 1 starter.

 

Maybe.  I do think Maye can start.  If it were me I'd let him work through his inconsistencies.  But should be interesting to see what he does.

 

I think an underrated part of his game is his wheels.   I think he can rely on that some early on in the mix.

[DogofWar1]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Why? We aren't exactly in danger of going to the Super Bowl this season and we're in year 1 of a rebuild with a new FO, HC, and owner. 

 

I'm not saying Daniels should sit, just that this sentiment seems to come with no actual reasoning or evidence.

 

There seems to be a view that we gotta do better and try for a winning season THIS year among a fair few in the media.

 

Man, miss me with that.

 

Like sure, if you CAN compete for 9-8 or better go for it, but if things start going a little sideways and we end up 4-13, as long as we're building the foundation right, then it's fine.  No one is getting fired after one year unless they do something non-football related to get fired.  If Coleman doesn't turn into a future LT, for example, if we're picking high, maybe we can snag Jayden's LSU OT.  Or if the secondary still struggles maybe we grab a CB.  If we're still struggling in 2026, then we panic, but this year let's just focus on the fundamentals and get the foundation right.

[profusion]

27 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Why? We aren't exactly in danger of going to the Super Bowl this season and we're in year 1 of a rebuild with a new FO, HC, and owner. 

 

I'm not saying Daniels should sit, just that this sentiment seems to come with no actual reasoning or evidence.

 

Daniels should sit if his fundamentals (footwork) are as poorly developed as Maye's apparently are. However, what I was getting at is that the Pats have a viable short-term starter in Brissett, while the Commanders don't (in my opinion). You could say that the Commanders FO burned the lifeboats on this one by not resigning Brissett. 

 

I also think, based on my hazy memories of last year, that the Pats might have a worse offensive lineup than the Commanders, and that's saying something. Peters has put some key skill players in place to help out Daniels in the short term. I don't have the spare time to worry about what the Pats' FO is doing, but they weren't as active in FA, for sure.

 

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe.  I do think Maye can start.  If it were me I'd let him work through his inconsistencies.  But should be interesting to see what he does.

 

I think an underrated part of his game is his wheels.   I think he can rely on that some early on in the mix.

 

It'd be better for the Pats to aim for the next Aaron Rodgers rather than the next RG3. Sit Maye until his fundamentals are closer to being acceptable. You risk making him worse, not better by throwing him out there in Week 1 if he's not close to ready as a passer.

Edited May 12 by profusion

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

Daniels should sit if his fundamentals (footwork) are as poorly developed as Maye's apparently are. However, what I was getting at is that the Pats have a viable short-term starter in Brissett, while the Commanders don't (in my opinion). You could say that the Commanders FO burned the lifeboats on this one by not resigning Brissett. 

 

I also think, based on my hazy memories of last year, that the Pats might have a worse offensive lineup than the Commanders, and that's saying something. Peters has put some key skill players in place to help out Daniels in the short term. I don't have the spare time to worry about what the Pats' FO is doing, but they weren't as active in FA, for sure.

 

There's not much difference IMO between Brissett and Mariota. They're both mediocre career journeyman QBs who have had a couple of good seasons interspersed with nothing. Both can be so-so starters, with Mariota being a slightly better runner and Brissett being slightly bigger to take more punishment.

 

And yes, you're right. The Pats have a really **** roster on offense. 

[Jumbo]

Isn't Brissett proven to be a better passer and leader and competitor than Mariota? And by enough in all three areas to be considered a definite, though not a big, notch up overall in the role? 

 

I really haven't bothered to do any thorough examination there, it's just my basic take from what little invested attention I've paid to each over the years.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

1 minute ago, Jumbo said:

Isn't Brissett proven to be a better passer and leader and competitor than Mariota? And by enough in all three areas to be considered a definite, though not a big, notch up overall in the role? 

Yes he is. I think it’s safe to say that we upgraded our starting QB and downgraded our backup QB.

[TK]

On 5/10/2024 at 9:35 AM, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

He's the punter.

 

Give up the number or get cut.

 

People overthink stuff.

How To Win Friends & Influence People Volume 2 by LBK  

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

Isn't Brissett proven to be a better passer and leader and competitor than Mariota? And by enough in all three areas to be considered a definite, though not a big, notch up overall in the role? 

 

I really haven't bothered to do any thorough examination there, it's just my basic take from what little invested attention I've paid to each over the years.

 

I think they're both pretty so-so passers. Both have pretty good arms, ok but not great accuracy. Leadership and competitiveness you might have me on Brissett, but not by a mile. Mariota is apparently a good teammate, but more of a laid back kind of personality.

 

So overall Brissett might be a slight upgrade but IMO it's sort of like comparing a 4 day old turkey sandwich with nothing on it to a 3 day old turkey sandwich with lettuce. Neither is going to make you happy but both will probably fill you up as a quick meal in a pinch.

Edited May 12 by mistertim

[bird_1972]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe.  I do think Maye can start.  If it were me I'd let him work through his inconsistencies.  But should be interesting to see what he does.

 

I think an underrated part of his game is his wheels.   I think he can rely on that some early on in the mix.

 

I still think he has the potential to be great. I would sit him most/all of this season to learn behind Brissett. It's not like NE is a QB away from going deep in the playoffs this year.

[wit33]

Not saying it’s right or wrong, but as I get older and spend more years as a fan, it’s clear that inaccurate quarterbacks often struggle to succeed. I’m willing to overlook inaccuracy if there's great running ability, but even that model seems to have a ceiling. I wouldn’t be surprised to see quarterbacks like Brock Purdy, who may not have elite tools, compete with those who do.
 

 

A who cares to most thought:

 

I still believe that as the NFL continues to evolve towards a more positionless game in open space, the QB position will become increasingly athletic. Similarly, the point guard position in basketball once featured players like Scott Skiles as a ball-dominant PG on a Shaq team, but it has since shifted towards giving the ball to the best athletes on the court, with the traditional PG role almost eliminated. There are still players like Mike Conley (Brock Purdy), who are tasked with getting the ball to the real QB, such as Anthony Edwards, within 4-8 seconds of the shot clock.

 

 

 

Edited May 12 by wit33

[FootballZombie]

Milton is like the rough QB to put next to Maye right now from an optics standpoint. Maye's big arm was a large selling point for him, and you visually (like when u compare the two directly) take that away when you put him next to guy w/ a noticeably bigger glizzy.

 

Maybe this smooths out as you get closer to training camp and rep disparity comes into play, but for the early part of the offseason where everybody's getting those throws in, your pretty much forcing Maye to show out in ways other than arm strength, cuz he aint gonna out gat Milton.

 

 

Anyways, back to us, I would like to hear a bit more about how Hartman is performing. Outside of being in the background of JD videos we don't get a whole lot about how the guy looks early.

 

Was he accurate in 7-on7s as well?

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, profusion said:

 

 

 

I'd be better for the Pats to aim for the next Aaron Rodgers rather than the next RG3. Sit Maye until his fundamentals are closer to being acceptable. You risk making him worse, not better by throwing him out there in Week 1 if he's not close to ready as a passer.

 

Maye though was bullseye on fire in a bunch of his games including last year.  He had 3-4 games were he wasn't good.    

 

His mechanics aren't consistent but I'd let him work on that in games.  Jayden became more consistent but he didn't do it riding the bench.

 

I think his critics like Simms, etc define him by those bad games.  But IMO there was plenty good about his play last year.

 

My worse fear for Maye is that he has a Wentz type of career and by that meaning the bad part of Wentz's career.  My fondest hope for him is he matches Herbert.  He has a strong arm, not wentz or Herbert level strong IMO but maybe a half a peg behind.  But i like him as a runner better than Wentz and Herbert.  Wentz got off to a hot career via doing a large number of RPOs and using his legs -- it seemed to work for him until he got that bad injury.  I think Maye can do the same.

[profusion]

The window of accuracy is smaller in the NFL, and I keep thinking back to Belichick's draft-day analysis that Maye was missing on throws to narrow windows that are considered "open" in the NFL.

 

I'm not rooting against the guy (unless he's playing the Commanders). It's just that maybe we're starting to see why Peters wasn't interested in him.

[Est.1974]

Really feels like a stud pick. 

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, profusion said:

The window of accuracy is smaller in the NFL, and I keep thinking back to Belichick's draft-day analysis that Maye was missing on throws to narrow windows that are considered "open" in the NFL.

 

I'm not rooting against the guy (unless he's playing the Commanders). It's just that maybe we're starting to see why Peters wasn't interested in him.

 

On the same topic, I was listening to Daniels QB coach on 106.7 -- not Beck but he has another one, too.  He said the latest area that he attacked the hardest with Daniels that Daniels wants to attack within his own skills is throwing in tight widows and to do within tight pockets where he doesn't have room to move much.

 

He also said that he studied in real time last year how Stroud prepared for the transition to the NFL.   Stround and Daniels are super tight. 

30 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Really feels like a stud pick. 

 

 

[mistertim]

52 minutes ago, profusion said:

The window of accuracy is smaller in the NFL, and I keep thinking back to Belichick's draft-day analysis that Maye was missing on throws to narrow windows that are considered "open" in the NFL.

 

I'm not rooting against the guy (unless he's playing the Commanders). It's just that maybe we're starting to see why Peters wasn't interested in him.

 

I think this could potentially be an issue for both players, especially with regards to 2nd level tight window throws down the middle, for different reasons. For Maye because of his inconsistent accuracy and footwork/mechanics, and for Daniels because he didn't do it very much in college...it was much more often to the boundaries to one of his stud WRs. Now, we don't know if that was by design or that was him being hesitant to make those throws. We'll probably get a better idea of that once we see him in a live game situation.

 

If it was by design, then it's much ado about nothing. If it was Daniels just being naturally hesitant about doing it then that could be a bit more problematic because it would have to be coached out of him, as those throws are considered must-haves and routine for NFL QBs.

 

The aggression and willingness to make those sorts of throws was one of the things I really liked about Maye and reminded me of Allen.

Edited May 12 by mistertim

[Chump Bailey]

Semi off-topic: Jayden Daniels is going to cost a fortune in my auction draft come September. I'm keeping CJ Stroud, but really want Daniels  

Might pivot to Baker as a potential sleeper QB - their OL got a lot better. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Excited to see Jayden play. Not excited to see every hot take comparison to Drake Maye from now until eternity. 
 

 

[CapsSkins]

8 hours ago, redskinss said:

 

Yeah but nobody is talking about him being ahead of daniels or being more accurate or having a stronger arm.

 

Just seems crazy that they aren't squashing this and I'm starting to get happier that we have a guy that is absolutely no doubt head and shoulders better than everybody else in the room and no talk of insurance in the form of a 6th round pick or in our case a priority udfa which is not far off from a 6th round pick.

 

 

Seems like Hartman is being groomed to be the long-term backup if he can be good enough on the field and superlative in the meeting room. Probably trying to follow the back-up / PS QB to offensive coaching staff to OC to HC pipeline.

[clskinsfan]

Just watched a replay of Rookie Camp. Daniels looked loose and like he was having fun. Kingsbury has more energy than a damn ant. They will win or fail together. That much is clear. 

[lovemaskins]

9 hours ago, redskinss said:

The difference in narrative between daniels at our camp and maye in Foxboro has been a little eye opening. 

Can you imagine If Sam hartman was getting more love from the media and our fans than jayden was.

I knew jayden was widely considered to be more pro ready than maye but if I knew it was this big of a gap I think I'd have been in camp daniels.

 

 

Which is exactly why, since we ARE fans, we should mostly (unless obvious incompetence occurs), from a fans’ perspective, allow our highly paid NFL professionals to do their jobs, and trust they have done it thoroughly, translating into the decisions we saw on draft day.  I find it rather amusing that some posters on this board are still so stubbornly locked into their stance on Maye, it’s done, move on….
 

I’m sure AP and Kingsbury saw the mechanics delta early in the process which made picking JD the no-brainer they said it was. So… GREAT! Our staff did job one, yay!, now on to job two… QB development.  Still lots to do.

[mistertim]

30 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

Which is exactly why, since we ARE fans, we should mostly (unless obvious incompetence occurs), from a fans’ perspective, allow our highly paid NFL professionals to do their jobs, and trust they have done it thoroughly, translating into the decisions we saw on draft day.  I find it rather amusing that some posters on this board are still so stubbornly locked into their stance on Maye, it’s done, move on….
 

I’m sure AP and Kingsbury saw the mechanics delta early in the process which made picking JD the no-brainer they said it was. So… GREAT! Our staff did job one, yay!, now on to job two… QB development.  Still lots to do.

 

I don't really care that much about Maye anymore, though I'll be curious to see what ends up happening with his career. I wanted him over Daniels, but it's done now.

 

That said, you do realize that even highly paid NFL scouts and coaches still make mistakes right? Overvaluing mechanics and footwork and undervaluing traits and other factors is the biggest reason that guys like Mahomes, Allen, and Herbert slipped.

 

Hopefully that won't be the case this time and we made the right choice.

Edited May 13 by mistertim

[lovemaskins]

50 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't really care that much about Maye anymore, though I'll be curious to see what ends up happening with his career. I wanted him over Daniels, but it's done now.

 

That said, you do realize that even highly paid NFL scouts and coaches still make mistakes right? Overvaluing mechanics and footwork and undervaluing traits and other factors is the biggest reason that guys like Mahomes, Allen, and Herbert slipped.

 

Hopefully that won't be the case this time and we made the right choice.

Of course, everyone makes mistakes, but ignoring the obvious trait weaknesses (footwork, release, accuracy, erratic tendency; demeanor, leadership, coolness, etc.) while using level of competition as a backdrop, to then select the other guy, like Maye (he’s not the first or last) increases risk substantially for a GM and head coach.  And your only real justification for the choice is a hunch, hard to defend being wrong to you’re boss…

 

However, if all my data and analysis prove to be wrong, although i followed my process, either my process is flawed, which initiates incorporating lessons learned, or just chalk it up to bad luck and try again.  But at least I have a hill I’m willing to die on.  As you say though, only time will tell…