Moving Towards our Future Front Office and Coaching Hires. All the Way to the Water Boy - Adam Peters Hired as GM! The Mighty Quinn is HC Kliff Kingsbury as OC. Joe Whitt jr at DC.

[DWinzit]

14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Shows the power of personality on either extreme.  I had no idea that Daboll was that high strung, wow.

 

https://www.nydailynews.com/2024/01/15/the-truth-behind-brian-daboll-wink-martindale-mike-kafka-and-the-giants-drama/

 

On Nov. 19 at Washington’s FedEx Field in Landover, Md. the 2-8 Giants led the Commanders, 24-12, late in the fourth quarter.

Wink Martindale’s defense had forced four turnovers. Thomas McGaughey’s special teams unit had forced another. And Mike Kafka’s offense, with Tommy DeVito at quarterback, had scored two of its three touchdowns on short fields off those takeaways.

But now Washington’s offense was driving, aided by a Kayvon Thibodeaux roughing the passer penalty outside the red zone. And that’s when Brian Daboll started playing the blame game on Martindale and the defensive staff:

“You’re gonna lose this game just like you lost us the Jets game,” Daboll griped on the headset, according to numerous sources in the building.

 

Daboll was blaming the defense for the Giants’ infamous 13-10 overtime loss to the Jets on Oct. 29, in which the offense had thrown for -9 yards and Daboll’s late-game mismanagement had opened the door to a full-scale, team-wide meltdown.

...Daboll’s sideline behavior was destructive, in many coaches’ opinions. His input was never proactive, always reactionary. And his outrage was rarely accompanied by a suggested solution.  "He has no composure,” one team source said.

America saw it first-hand on Sunday Night Football Oct. 15 in Buffalo. NBC sideline reporter Melissa Stark said a “very frustrated” Daboll couldn’t answer questions at halftime because, he admitted: “My head is not in this. I cannot focus on anything right now.”

Now Schoen was monitoring the dynamic at Washington after being alerted by several meaningful parties that Daboll’s behavior and the sideline dynamic were not constructive.

Schoen would stay on the headsets for four games, sources say – against the Commanders, Patriots, Packers and Saints – before stepping back offline for the final three.

The story of the Giants’ 2023 undoing isn’t about a personal feud between Daboll and Martindale and the past, though. It’s about bad football and a flawed process that still exists inside the Giants’ walls.

It’s about an organization with enough problems that one Giants staffer recently advised an NFL assistant calling about a vacancy:

“Do not come here.”

‘OFF THE WAVE’

Daboll set an adversarial tone in August when he stared down McGaughey, his special teams coordinator, on the sideline after a Lions punt return touchdown. That public showing-up wasn’t appreciated, but Daboll’s rage was nothing new.

He’d eviscerated plenty of people in 2022, like former running backs coach DeAndre Smith, who left for the Colts last offseason. Daboll also lit into Daniel Jones twice in two years, throwing a tablet in disgust next to his quarterback after Jones’ Week 4 pick-six against the Seahawks.

Kafka, the Giants’ young offensive coordinator, however, has received the brunt of Daboll’s fury, according to numerous team sources. He is “constantly second-guessed,” a source said.

 

Daboll, who got the Giants job due to his work with Josh Allen’s Bills offense, ran a consistently hot temperature as his offense cratered beginning with a 40-0 Week 1 loss to the Cowboys. And he often took it out on his OC.

“He would make [Kafka] run the ball, and then if he called a run [Daboll] didn’t like it, he would motherf–k him,” a source said.

The Giants started 1-5 with only one offensive TD total in their first five losses. Poor O-line personnel and an annual injury problem under this athletic training staff didn’t help. They went three straight games without an offensive TD against Seattle, Miami and Buffalo in Weeks 4-6.

 

The good fortune of last season’s playoff run had worn off quickly.

“Last season it was like we were riding a wave,” one player said as the season spiraled. “And now, we’re off the wave.”

Daboll took playcalling away from Kafka multiple times, according to sources, and gave it back each time. He gave it to QB coach Shea Tierney for the second half at Dallas in Week 10, per sources.

 

Daboll’s “unpredictability,” one source said, was his defining trait. There was no pattern, rhyme or reason to his changes from others’ perspectives.

Daboll also took over Kafka’s offensive meetings in Week 7 ahead of a home game against Washington, as the Daily News first reported. And he didn’t give complete control back to Kafka until Week 11, after the offense had averaged 11.75 points during that 1-3 stretch.

 

With Kafka back at the reins, the Giants scored 24 or more points in five of their final seven games. But Daboll’s impulsive nature also reared its head in how he mismanaged game situations in losses.

His game management in last year’s divisional round in Philadelphia – going for a 4th and 8 on the Eagles’ 40-yard line while trailing 7-0 – sent a message of panic to the team and ended the 38-7 loss in the first quarter.

 

...“You’re living on the edge every week,” a source said of working for Daboll. “It makes it tough to do your job.”

WHERE IT WENT WRONG WITH WINK

There were signs from the first day of last year’s training camp that the Daboll-Martindale dynamic would not work.

When the offense struggled to start camp, Daboll allowed a perception to grow that he had tipped off the defense to play calls in order to create a challenge for Jones.

But the reality, according to sources, was that Martindale’s pressure packages were giving the offense fits. So Daboll told Martindale he was putting a limit on his blitzes for the rest of camp.

That set the tone for an offense vs. defense coaching culture that did not go in the offense’s favor, especially this season.

The defense finished with more takeaways (31) than the offense had touchdowns (25) and scored three TDs on its own. The offense scored more than 14 points only once in the Giants’ first nine games.

 

The weight of the offense’s struggles became too much for the defense during those blowout losses to the Raiders and Cowboys, the unit’s worst two games of the year.

 

“We know we have to be perfect because of the offense right now,” a defensive starter said after the Dallas game. “It’s hard.”

The handling of safety Xavier McKinney’s public criticism of the coaching staff after the Week 9 loss to the Raiders was a good window into the Daboll-Martindale rift.

 

Daboll tried to keep the fallout in-house and did not appreciate that Martindale put McKinney on blast publicly a few days later. But some viewed Daboll’s lack of public consequences for McKinney – and the subsequent leak of his displeasure with Martindale – as the head coach choosing a player over his defensive coordinator.

The outcome was that McKinney, after being held accountable, played his best football in the second half of the season.

But FOX sideline reporter Tom Rinaldi noted an extended, out-of-the-ordinary conversation between Daboll and Martindale on the sideline in Week 10 at Dallas. Then Daboll had McKinney break the team down in the winning Week 11 locker room at Washington.

 

 

...Martindale had a lot of support, as well. Captain and middle linebacker Bobby Okereke stumped the loudest, telling the News in November that losing Martindale would be “devastating,” a sentiment echoed by several players.

Some simply grew tired of hearing about the dueling coach camps.

“Too many egos,” one player said. “Too many egos.”

Ultimately, the Giants fired Martindale’s right-hand man, outside linebackers coach Drew Wilkins, and his brother Kevin on Black Monday without informing the defensive coordinator.

All that did was expedite Martindale’s plan to escape what had become an untenable, unhealthy, losing situation. Martindale blew up at Daboll, according to sources.

“Go f–k yourself,” he told Daboll, who is no stranger to that kind of language. And then Martindale left the building and the team. The Daily News first reported he was resigning.

 

WOW, I had no idea this was all going on behind the scenes in Giantland. This is one of the best things I have heard in a long time!!! And here I thought they were in a really good space with Daboll

[Going Commando]

7 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

Meanwhile, Jay Gruden and RG3 are arguing on Twitter lol.

 

Oh boy.  Jay is fighting a guy who now buys ink by the barrel.

[Going Commando]

14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Shows the power of personality on either extreme.  I had no idea that Daboll was that high strung, wow.

 

So what you're saying is that having a child's anger management skills and impulse control paired with a profound insecurity are bad traits to have in a leader?

 

There's blood in the water in the NFC East.  We can smell it.  This isn't just a fleeting window either, all of our division rivals have structural issues that aren't easy to fix.

[mhd24]

9 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

So what you're saying is that having a child's anger management skills and impulse control paired with a profound insecurity are bad traits to have in a leader?

 

There's blood in the water in the NFC East.  We can smell it.  This isn't just a fleeting window either, all of our division rivals have structural issues that aren't easy to fix.

 

Yeah, NYG can't fire their coach and result in going 4 consecutive coaches of two and out (McaDoo, Shurmur, Judge, and DaBoll).  I think Daboll is a solid coach in getting that roster to 6 wins was impressive despite all of their injuries.  He's got to control his emotions though.  For all the hate Ron got, the one thing I always appreciated about him is how stoic he was on the sidelines.  He never lost his temper.

 

Dallas has lingering cap issues with many pending FAs, the Dak situation (they have to extend him as he counts 60 million on the cap this year), extending Parsons & Lamb.  Tyron Smith is probably gone (Tyler Smith will move to LT).  Ditto Philly.  Kelce looks like he just played his last game.  Lane Johnson could easily retire after this year.  

Edited January 16 by mhd24

[Veretax]

17 hours ago, Redwards said:

I would be very disappointed if Morris or Quinn are hired, especially with the other choices out there.  ( I really want no part of Quinn)  I just don't believe that these guys are HC material at all, and they feel way too close to Dan Snyder-type hires to me.  Not saying they are, but it just feels that way to me. 

 

That being said, I DO believe in this ownership group, and am stoked at what they've done so far.  They're the experts, going about this in expert fashion.  So whichever individual they hire, I'll trust it.  But Morris or Quinn will have me apprehensive for sure.  

As a HC? I'm not a big Morris Fan, but he has to be light years better on Defense than Rivera/Del Rio.  Let's try to maintain perspective.  Dallas's Defense made Le Fleur look so awesome at play calling, and Green Bay's D made Joe Barry Seem like a Savant, for just watching film and doing dilligence.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

So what you're saying is that having a child's anger management skills and impulse control paired with a profound insecurity are bad traits to have in a leader?

 

There's blood in the water in the NFC East.  We can smell it.  This isn't just a fleeting window either, all of our division rivals have structural issues that aren't easy to fix.

 

 

 

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, Commander202 said:

Im not a fan of Brian Mitchell the radio host , loved the redskins version.
 

As for gruden he’s drunk and rg3 trollin . Although to be fair I believe gruden made the right choice with cousins , had he hired wade phillips who know what could have happened .

If Tomlin available I’d be very interested .

If Tomlin decides to step away, he’s not coaching in 24. Steelers are ready to extend his contract but he may decide to take some time off.

 

If Tomlin is coaching this upcoming season, it’s In Pittsburgh.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, RabidFan said:

You're killing me SIP

 

I wish there was a another reporter I trust to that same extent.  But nada.

 

As Cooley used to joke Keim checks everything with 7 sources, that's why he's never wrong.

 

I follow everyone really.  I listen to almost every podcast from every reporter.  And they all let me down.  Keim almost never.

 

Sheehan might be the closest to nailing it.  He doesn't report much but when he does I can't remember the last time he was wrong.  His latest was saying when he jumped on the air last Friday that he expects the GM hiring to happen that day and it did. 

 

You can make fun of it, you can resist, but search your feelings, and you know its true.

 

 

[DazedSkinsfan]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

And with all the back and forth about which QB we should draft, having this guy in the office makes me feel so much better regardless of who we pick. I've read and heard enough about this guy to 100% put my faith in his decisions and just let him do his thing. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Kelce retiring adds insult to injury for Philly 

 

I’ve liked what I’ve read about him but number 1 when they haven’t as far as I know requested an interview 

 

 

Edited January 16 by Skinsinparadise

[HTTRDynasty]

Doesn’t Mike McDaniel call the plays in Miami?  That would be a disappointing hire IMO.
 

Similar to the EB - Andy Reid situation. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I'd add part of why am surprised they haven't interviewed Frank Smith is if they are somewhat obsessed witth leadership-personality, this dude jumps to me on that front based on several things I've read.

 

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Doesn’t Mike McDaniel call the plays in Miami?  That would be a disappointing hire IMO.
 

Similar to the EB - Andy Reid situation. 

 

McDaniels didn't call plays in SF but collaborated with Kyle.  Ditto as to Frank Smith now collaborating with McDaniels. 

 

EB doesn't of course define this as a category -- EB is EB,  everyone is different. 

Edited January 16 by Skinsinparadise

[boston skins fan]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Oh boy.  Jay is fighting a guy who now buys ink by the barrel.

 

you got that from that jon favraou chef movie didnt you?

[NYSkins21]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

So what you're saying is that having a child's anger management skills and impulse control paired with a profound insecurity are bad traits to have in a leader?

 

There's blood in the water in the NFC East.  We can smell it.  This isn't just a fleeting window either, all of our division rivals have structural issues that aren't easy to fix.

It’s amazing to think that we are the most stable organization in the NFC East. What a difference a year makes.

[DazedSkinsfan]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Kelce retiring adds insult to injury for Philly 

 

I’ve liked what I’ve read about him but number 1 when they haven’t as far as I know requested an interview 

 

 

Wow, if true that's interesting and very intriguing.  I have a feeling that there might be a few more names that come from out of nowhere. While we've been debating on 2 or 3 coaching prospects we forget that there's actual adults running the organization now and for once doing their due diligence on this search. 

[HTTRDynasty]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

McDaniels didn't call plays in SF but collaborated with Kyle.  Ditto as to Frank Smith now collaborating with McDaniels. 

 

EB doesn't of course define this as a category -- EB is EB,  everyone is different. 

Yeah, I get all that. Just think it would be odd to pass over guys like Johnson and Slowik who have proven their play calling capabilities at a high level for someone who has never done it before. 
 

He would have to be a hell of a leader of men for me to like the move. 

[NoVaSkins21]

Frank Smith is nice, but Peters needs to be aggressive in his pursuit of Johnson and Slowik as a close 2nd choice.  

[Chris 44]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

Fake post...thats not Redskins 1.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, DazedSkinsfan said:

Wow, if true that's interesting and very intriguing.  I have a feeling that there might be a few more names that come from out of nowhere. While we've been debating on 2 or 3 coaching prospects we forget that there's actual adults running the organization now and for once doing their due diligence on this search. 

 

Agree, I expect more candidates to emerge.

 

I like that they are supposedly fixated on getting a dude who can lead.  My one concern of the hot play caller is always can they also motivate, find good people to work with, adminstrate a staff and a team, build a winning culture, etc. 

 

I know some goof now on the culture stuff because of Ron but Ron IMO wasn't about building a winning culture.  He was about being a nice guy and liking to be surrounded by nice people but that IMO isn't building a winning culture. Ron IMO was the converse of building a winning culture -- he wasn't consistent, threw players under the bus, made excuses, didn't surroud himself with top people and was complacent.

Edited January 16 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, NoVaSkins21 said:

Frank Smith is nice, but Peters needs to be aggressive in his pursuit of Johnson and Slowik as a close 2nd choice.  

 

I like Ben Johnson's profile.  Slowik's personality feels like a red flag to me but I am willing to overlook it.   Smith jumps to me a bit more than Slowik.  But I admit whether its liking Johnson, intrigued by Smith or having concerns about Slowik, I still don't really know.

 

About half of these guys give or take don't even end up calling plays even though they are hired for their prowess on that front.  The playcalling is often given away.  So everything about the person and the way they operate is very relevant.  

 

I recall reading about Beathard's liking of Gibbs in that interview, it wasn't purely about the playcalling but the person.  Especially with Myers seemingly obsession about leadership skills as a key variable that he wants from coaches, I expect they will do a good job ferreting out the full picture on these guys.

Edited January 16 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Yeah, I get all that. Just think it would be odd to pass over guys like Johnson and Slowik who have proven their play calling capabilities at a high level for someone who has never done it before. 
 

He would have to be a hell of a leader of men for me to like the move. 

 

If Keim is right these play callers better be good leaders because the leadership is their prime want over the playcalling.

 

Just going by profile, I think that would make Slowik the underdog in this process with the disclaimer that sometimes people's takes on a dude's personality can be skewed so Slowik might be different than the impression he conveys to some.

 

Frank Smith's profile feels very warm and fuzzy but is it too warm and fuzzy?  lol, I have no idea.

 

Ben Johnson from what I read doesn't jump out or look bad on the leadership count.   I recall mentioning that one TV anaylist who meets with most of the coordinators of the league before their broadcasts said Ben Johnson by far jumps out the most as far as his presence and knowledge in those meetings.  If so, it gives the vibe that he'd be a good interview.

 

We've read in the past for example EB wasn't a good interview and that hurt him in this process.

 

Keim's point is the interview process is likely to be big.  If I am going purely on that, based on reputation, Raheem Morris is known to be a charismatic leader of men type and it oozes when he talks to people so it makes me wonder if he might be a stronger candidate than some give him credit for.

 

Will see.  But I like their emphasis on personality.  It's clearly a big deal.  The article about Daboll brings that home, some.

[Riggo-toni]

Raheem Morris and Dan Quinn have already had thoroughly uninspired runs at HC.  If we were going to hire a defensive guy, I would rather go for Antonio Pierce if LV doesn't retain him 

[MisterPinstripe]

54 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Doesn’t Mike McDaniel call the plays in Miami?  That would be a disappointing hire IMO.
 

Similar to the EB - Andy Reid situation. 

Dan Campbell was the TEs coach and assistant head coach for the Saints before becoming the head coach of the Lions. He definitely did not call plays. John Harbaugh was a ST coach before becoming the Ravens head coach. Mike McDaniels did not call plays before becoming the Dolphins HC.  I want Ben Johnson, and most HCs are play callers, but being a good head coach doesnt mean that you have to have called plays so just trust Adam Peters and Harris.

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

So what you're saying is that having a child's anger management skills and impulse control paired with a profound insecurity are bad traits to have in a leader?

 

There's blood in the water in the NFC East.  We can smell it.  This isn't just a fleeting window either, all of our division rivals have structural issues that aren't easy to fix.

Yep thats what Ive been saying too. In ten years were gonna see graphics popping up showing our dominant record with Peters/Johnson/Maye similar to what they do with Reid/Mahomes, Mcdermott/Allen etc.

[ThatNFLChick]