2024 NFL Draft Position/Tracker - Final Pick #2

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Cant deal Terry. Need a reliable vet for the rook to throw to. Plus he deserves to explode with a bona fide coach and QB.

I'd totally trade Terry. Dude already served what 5 years of punishment as an overage prospect. Dude will be 29 when the season kicks off. This is a damn good WR draft too, deep one, especially in the top 50 or so. It depends upon what we could get for McLaurin though. If it's a 2nd, or early 3rd, I'd probably do it (3rd I'd have to think about it). He's on a reasonably user friendly contract though. It is 12th in the league, and he aint a top 12 WR, but it's a short deal too, not sure on cap ramifications of a trade. I'd lead that to someone else, but I'd definitely consider trading him for a good pick. Like Allen, he's simply too old to be relevant. He's 31, like Allen, when we might be good. Not much point in that. But if the contract is not movable, so be it, the provide your QB w/a WR argument is a valid one, but I don't like the efficency #'s, target separation etc either. It's alarming, unless he was carrying an injury. 70th in the league in 2023 in target separation. Not good, at all. Had to be injured right? 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

I view those bad examples as randomness more than anything (and admittedly, I think trading down in the top half of round 1 is fundamentally different than other rounds because round 1 is round 1), just bad luck.

 

For a team like this one that has been the worst in the NFL as to finding elite players ALL Pro types.   The trade downs have had some irony to it.  Kyle Hamilton who some of us loved on the draft thread, All Pro player, we skipped.   We wanted to have a 2nd Terry McLaurin type receiver -- guess who has Terry like production Chris Olave.  That trade still might bear out in our favor will see.

 

Dallas wanted Dexter Lawrence and traded with us to get him.  We got Trent Murphy and Spencer Long.  They got a pro bowler.

 

Seattle wanted Tyler Lockett and traded up with us to get him.  We got Crowder, and not much else.  They got a pro bowler.

 

Texans got Watt a Hall of Famer, All Pro.  We got Kerrigan, really good player.  And man was it worth it to pass on JJ Watt because we got Jarvis Jenkins in that trade down.

 

We can call it bad luck.  But when teams who are known to have really good front offices like Seattle are scoping out a player and nail a great one at the pick we are sitting on, maybe they are on to something and maybe this team isn't hot at grading talent?

 

I am not against trading down.  I get that it adds to your chances of success.  But our examples of trading down ironically have been in your face examples of other teams finding great players at our expense. And considering how this team has struggled to find great players -- the irony is not lost on me.

Edited January 22 by Skinsinparadise

[FlyBigBeard]

5 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Allen is 28. 

 

We have Payne, Mathis, Ridgeway already on the roster. 

 

Trading Allen for a 2nd+ does not leave you bare at the position. 

 

Could replace Allen with a veteran rotational piece. Could also replace him with a 3rd-5th round pick. 

 

Allen is the most obvious trade candidate. Not sure other than Terry who else makes sense at this point. There's really nobody on the roster that you can point to that is an asset that teams would necessarily want to trade for that makes sense to move other than Terry and Allen, and I think Terry stays given we'll be going after a rookie QB at #2.

 

---------

Of course there's a scenario where this front office decides to trade #2 and go long-haul rebuild. Load up on draft picks this year and next year and ride with Howell + maybe a mid-round pick with eyes on QB later down the road. And if that's the approach they choose to take, then I think it makes a lot more sense to trade Terry.

I think you keep Terry, because I think Samuel is gone and you need Terry and his skills/ personality for a young QB and Dotson is not ready or a #1 wr , Allen gets you at least a 2nd round and maybe more a 4th or a 5th and you take that and add his replacement. And some OL help. And we get younger even though he is only 28 but 28 is on the downward side of the hill in the NFL, get the value while you can. 

[TheBlueIndian]

10 minutes ago, FlyBigBeard said:

Allen gets you at least a 2nd round and maybe more a 4th or a 5th and you take that and add his replacement. And some OL help. And we get younger even though he is only 28 but 28 is on the downward side of the hill in the NFL, get the value while you can. 

This is assuming that Allen is viewed as added value over the currently rostered player or draft pick any team willing offer up a 2nd. Coming off a so so year where he allowed his emotions to get the better of him whilst playing for a dumpster fire turned controlled burn, might have diminished his perceived value. 

 

i love Allen but his antics this year were stupid and petty, not that of a team leader, FFS the finish line was in clear view. If I can see this as a homer fanboy so does everyone else   

[FlyBigBeard]

31 minutes ago, TheBlueIndian said:

This is assuming that Allen is viewed as added value over the currently rostered player or draft pick any team willing offer up a 2nd. Coming off a so so year where he allowed his emotions to get the better of him whilst playing for a dumpster fire turned controlled burn, might have diminished his perceived value. 

 

i love Allen but his antics this year were stupid and petty, not that of a team leader, FFS the finish line was in clear view. If I can see this as a homer fanboy so does everyone else   

Well maybe a 3rd round pick then haha 🤷🏻‍♂️ 😂...who knows, just have a feeling they are going to entertain trade offers for him. 

 

 

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I get it 's a rebuild but if they hit on the QB, draft well and hit on a few free agents I don't see why this team can't be competitive next season with better coaching.  I've never been a big Jon Allen guy but he is coming off a bad season and won't present a lot of value.  I don't like creating yet more holes on the DL because next fall we will all be complaining about the DL. 

[mhd24]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I get it 's a rebuild but if they hit on the QB, draft well and hit on a few free agents I don't see why this team can't be competitive next season with better coaching.  I've never been a big Jon Allen guy but he is coming off a bad season and won't present a lot of value.  I don't like creating yet more holes on the DL because next fall we will all be complaining about the DL. 

 

The schedule isn't horrible.  

Home:

Dallas

Philly

NYG

Chicago

Atlanta

Carolina

Tennessee

Pittsburgh

Cleveland

 

Away:

Dallas

Philly

NYG

Baltimore

Cincy

Arizona

New Orleans

Tampa

 

Aside from Lamar & Burrow, we aren't playing any tier 1 QBs.  Hurts & Dak are really good, but after that its not  an OMG slate.

 

 

[Warhead36]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For a team like this one that has been the worst in the NFL as to finding elite players ALL Pro types.   The trade downs have had some irony to it.  Kyle Hamilton who some of us loved on the draft thread, All Pro player, we skipped.   We wanted to have a 2nd Terry McLaurin type receiver -- guess who has Terry like production Chris Olave.  That trade still might bear out in our favor will see.

 

Dallas wanted Dexter Lawrence and traded with us to get him.  We got Trent Murphy and Spencer Long.  They got a pro bowler.

 

Seattle wanted Tyler Lockett and traded up with us to get him.  We got Crowder, and not much else.  They got a pro bowler.

 

Texans got Watt a Hall of Famer, All Pro.  We got Kerrigan, really good player.  And man was it worth it to pass on JJ Watt because we got Jarvis Jenkins in that trade down.

 

We can call it bad luck.  But when teams who are known to have really good front offices like Seattle are scoping out a player and nail a great one at the pick we are sitting on, maybe they are on to something and maybe this team isn't hot at grading talent?

 

I am not against trading down.  I get that it adds to your chances of success.  But our examples of trading down ironically have been in your face examples of other teams finding great players at our expense. And considering how this team has struggled to find great players -- the irony is not lost on me.

Yep thats why I get annoyed at all the trade down fanatics. We've done it regularly and EVERY time we do it we pass up on blue chippers in favor of guys who are just "pretty good." 

 

Quality beats quantity. Every time.

[Redskins 2021]

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

The schedule isn't horrible.  

Home:

Dallas

Philly

NYG

Chicago

Atlanta

Carolina

Tennessee

Pittsburgh

Cleveland

 

Away:

Dallas

Philly

NYG

Baltimore

Cincy

Arizona

New Orleans

Tampa

 

Aside from Lamar & Burrow, we aren't playing any tier 1 QBs.  Hurts & Dak are really good, but after that its not  an OMG slate.

 

 

 This a 4 to 6 win team next year to many holes to fill. We should be alot more competitive. Are defense needs to improve a ton. 

Edited January 23 by Redskins 2021

[Going Commando]

15 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I get it 's a rebuild but if they hit on the QB, draft well and hit on a few free agents I don't see why this team can't be competitive next season with better coaching.  I've never been a big Jon Allen guy but he is coming off a bad season and won't present a lot of value.  I don't like creating yet more holes on the DL because next fall we will all be complaining about the DL. 

 

A quick turnaround is definitely possible.  Jon Allen is a great player and fringe All Pro.  Selling low on him is a Ron Rivera style trade that not even he was dumb enough to make.  If he asks for a trade, you consider it.  But a worthy FO and coaching staff should be able to sell guys like Allen on the future here.  Chicago didn't trade Jaylon Johnson when he asked for a trade and he wasn't under contract long term, and then they proceeded to turn their whole defense around and make their future look bright.  We can do that with ours too.

[Warhead36]

Allen is also exactly the type of player GMAP would want.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

18 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For a team like this one that has been the worst in the NFL as to finding elite players ALL Pro types.   The trade downs have had some irony to it.  Kyle Hamilton who some of us loved on the draft thread, All Pro player, we skipped.   We wanted to have a 2nd Terry McLaurin type receiver -- guess who has Terry like production Chris Olave.  That trade still might bear out in our favor will see.

 

Dallas wanted Dexter Lawrence and traded with us to get him.  We got Trent Murphy and Spencer Long.  They got a pro bowler.

 

Seattle wanted Tyler Lockett and traded up with us to get him.  We got Crowder, and not much else.  They got a pro bowler.

 

Texans got Watt a Hall of Famer, All Pro.  We got Kerrigan, really good player.  And man was it worth it to pass on JJ Watt because we got Jarvis Jenkins in that trade down.

 

We can call it bad luck.  But when teams who are known to have really good front offices like Seattle are scoping out a player and nail a great one at the pick we are sitting on, maybe they are on to something and maybe this team isn't hot at grading talent?

 

I am not against trading down.  I get that it adds to your chances of success.  But our examples of trading down ironically have been in your face examples of other teams finding great players at our expense. And considering how this team has struggled to find great players -- the irony is not lost on me.

 

We also could have just had Olave instead of Dotson and more picks. But Kyle Hamilton would have been a bust with us, there's no way we wouldn't have botched his development over the first 2 years.

 

Our coaches were huge on putting players where they would struggle, on purpose, because they thought that would lead to development. Instead it just slows everything down. Cosmi, Quan, St Juste, and Davis are examples.

 

I stand by saying his draft profile was limiting, but he could excel in specific roles that only put him where he's good. The Ravens did that. We, and most coaching staffs, would not. Hamilton's success is more luck he was drafted to a team that wasn't pigheaded and foolish.

[samy316]

24 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

We also could have just had Olave instead of Dotson and more picks. But Kyle Hamilton would have been a bust with us, there's no way we wouldn't have botched his development over the first 2 years.

 

Our coaches were huge on putting players where they would struggle, on purpose, because they thought that would lead to development. Instead it just slows everything down. Cosmi, Quan, St Juste, and Davis are examples.

 

I stand by saying his draft profile was limiting, but he could excel in specific roles that only put him where he's good. The Ravens did that. We, and most coaching staffs, would not. Hamilton's success is more luck he was drafted to a team that wasn't pigheaded and foolish.

Those players highlighted were mistakes in the first place, and players that we shouldn’t have drafted.  The Davis pick and the Forbes pick will set us back pretty good.  We needed absolute home runs with those picks, and squandered them.
 

I’m also looking side-eyed at Dotson now too.  He completely disappeared this season, and he was dropping balls all over the field to boot.  I’m not gonna freak out about Dotson, until we hire a new OC/HC, and we get a chance to see him in action outside of Bieniemy’s terrible scheme, but I’m worried now that we might have blown 3 1st round picks under the Rivera regime.  I hope to God that he has a bounce back season, because I’d hate to think that we might need to seriously upgrade at WR now too, especially with Samuel set to leave as a FA.

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

We also could have just had Olave instead of Dotson and more picks. But Kyle Hamilton would have been a bust with us, there's no way we wouldn't have botched his development over the first 2 years.

 

Our coaches were huge on putting players where they would struggle, on purpose, because they thought that would lead to development. Instead it just slows everything down. Cosmi, Quan, St Juste, and Davis are examples.

 

I stand by saying his draft profile was limiting, but he could excel in specific roles that only put him where he's good. The Ravens did that. We, and most coaching staffs, would not. Hamilton's success is more luck he was drafted to a team that wasn't pigheaded and foolish.

 

Hamilton played a lot of big nickle for the Ravens.  Rivera wasn't hot but he's also not stupid.  For a dude who loved saying Buffalo nickle to death, I don't think Ron would have been lost as to what to do with Hamilton.   Hamilton can play safety straight on, too.

 

I don't think Ron would have done something crazy and turned him into an outside corner.

 

I get it and complained at the time about them moving Jamin to Mike LB and then seeing it doesn't work and then moving him back to his natural weak side position.  And them getting William Jackson and playing a lot of zone -- but I think with Jackson it ran deeper, he just sucked as a player, sucked playing man for them too.

 

Hamilton was a stud in college.  Some knocked him for not having crazy speed.  But he was fast enough.  His instincts made up for it as to his range.  I recall me among others posting clips of this dude's sideline to sideline range.

 

I think as some say its prospect fatigue.   Hamilton early on was billed as a top 5 pick.  Then he tended to slide in the mocks.  And like almost any prospect he got torn apart.   

 

All pro player right who was right under a nose.  And of course the Ravens have him.   Other examples of that with them passing over JOK, Gonzalez, Darrisaw, etc -- this team liked to draft funky at times and it hasn't aged well.

 

Edited January 23 by Skinsinparadise

[Chris 44]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

All pro player right who was right under a nose.  And of course the Ravens have him.   Other examples of that with them passing over JOK, Gonzalez, Darrisaw, etc -- this team liked to draft funky at times and it hasn't aged well.

 

Its really baffling how they could miss on players so often and or play them in roles not suited to them. Many on this board would wonder allowed about picks and where they have them playing, but for the most part, at least in my case, figured "well they are the guys who have been in the NFL a long time and certainly know better than me". Its as if they were trying to be too clever at times, bordering on arrogance. Would love to know the dynamics between coaches and scouts and who pushed for each individual player.

[seantaylor=god]

40 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Its really baffling how they could miss on players so often and or play them in roles not suited to them. Many on this board would wonder allowed about picks and where they have them playing, but for the most part, at least in my case, figured "well they are the guys who have been in the NFL a long time and certainly know better than me". Its as if they were trying to be too clever at times, bordering on arrogance. Would love to know the dynamics between coaches and scouts and who pushed for each individual player.

I suspect coaches (Del Rio) influenced Rivera on picks over the scouts. 

[Warhead36]

Dotson was a big time disappointment. We passed up on Olave who I loved at the time and who looks like a stud. Dotson looked good his rookie year though so I wanna see if he can bounce back with a different coach. For some reason it seemed like Dotson was in EB's doghouse from day one. Guys like Byron Pringle and John Bates were generating more targets than Dotson which makes no sense.

[redskin301]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Dotson was a big time disappointment. We passed up on Olave who I loved at the time and who looks like a stud. Dotson looked good his rookie year though so I wanna see if he can bounce back with a different coach. For some reason it seemed like Dotson was in EB's doghouse from day one. Guys like Byron Pringle and John Bates were generating more targets than Dotson which makes no sense.

I was screaming at the tv when they passed on olave 

[PlayAction]

16 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Yep thats why I get annoyed at all the trade down fanatics. We've done it regularly and EVERY time we do it we pass up on blue chippers in favor of guys who are just "pretty good." 

 

Quality beats quantity. Every time.

Did we have a good GM during those trade downs?  Quality depends upon who is doing the assessment.  If a good GM is determining quality and fit then quantity becomes important.  If Peters can find players throughout the draft that fit what he wants to build then quantity becomes important.  We will see.  

[757SeanTaylor21]

Our drafting has been very reminiscent to those of the raiders under gruden and mayock. And it burned them just as much as kt burned us.

[The Consigliere]

22 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For a team like this one that has been the worst in the NFL as to finding elite players ALL Pro types.   The trade downs have had some irony to it.  Kyle Hamilton who some of us loved on the draft thread, All Pro player, we skipped.   We wanted to have a 2nd Terry McLaurin type receiver -- guess who has Terry like production Chris Olave.  That trade still might bear out in our favor will see.

 

Dallas wanted Dexter Lawrence and traded with us to get him.  We got Trent Murphy and Spencer Long.  They got a pro bowler.

 

Seattle wanted Tyler Lockett and traded up with us to get him.  We got Crowder, and not much else.  They got a pro bowler.

 

Texans got Watt a Hall of Famer, All Pro.  We got Kerrigan, really good player.  And man was it worth it to pass on JJ Watt because we got Jarvis Jenkins in that trade down.

 

We can call it bad luck.  But when teams who are known to have really good front offices like Seattle are scoping out a player and nail a great one at the pick we are sitting on, maybe they are on to something and maybe this team isn't hot at grading talent?

 

I am not against trading down.  I get that it adds to your chances of success.  But our examples of trading down ironically have been in your face examples of other teams finding great players at our expense. And considering how this team has struggled to find great players -- the irony is not lost on me.

I'm just bummed that with all the talent at WR in terms of prospects from '20-'23, all we pulled was basically Dotson. Not great. Those classes were filled with guys that hit big, and guys that missed, but we barely even tried, and when we did, we specifically targeted a future #2 rather than a guy with #1 upside. It's just a really awful track record of uninspired floor hunting in terms of prospects, and then stupid speculative ceiling dart throws like Jamin, and Forbes etc that were just silly as hell. 

 

I'm fine with anything, for the record, except trading down from 2 or drafting a non-QB at 2. Nearly anything is worth looking at including trade ups and downs. With 6 top 106 picks, I would love to add draft capital to the '25 class too. But it really depends on the board. 

 

I don't disagree w/what you say, but honestly, I dont think trade downs are why we missed on great players, I think having average, to totally bottom of the barrell GM's is why we missed out on great players. As an example, in '20 Taylor, Swift, and Dobbins were ridiculous upside RB talents, in '22 so were Breece Hall and Kenneth Walker, at worst, they were a half a tier below guys like Bijan, and could be had with round 2 draft capital. We had no interest? Why. We're stupid. Seems pretty simple to me. I'm not entirely for RB's in round 2, it can be a bit early for me, but when you have the league overdrafting guys like Gibbs, Bijan, Josh Jacobs, Etienne, Najee Harris etc in round 1 and ridiculously underdrafting guys like Taylor and Breece Hall, maybe take advantage of that stupidity. Guys like Taylor and Hall were always studs, there isn't some logical top of round 1 vs top to middle round 2 difference between them. When the league gets something wrong like that, take advantage of it.

 

But our GM's have typically been dumb, or at best johnny average. We speculate on upside guys like Gibson, or overdraft guys like Robinson. We habitually just draft poorly in terms of value, especially under Ron, Cerrrato, and Casserly and well, I guess everyone. Hopefully that's over now (though truth be told, I didnt always love Niner selections, some i thought were dumb as hell, like Aiyuk who I beneath where they took him (though I liked him and he attended my local high school).

[The Consigliere]

18 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

The schedule isn't horrible.  

Home:

Dallas

Philly

NYG

Chicago

Atlanta

Carolina

Tennessee

Pittsburgh

Cleveland

 

Away:

Dallas

Philly

NYG

Baltimore

Cincy

Arizona

New Orleans

Tampa

 

Aside from Lamar & Burrow, we aren't playing any tier 1 QBs.  Hurts & Dak are really good, but after that its not  an OMG slate.

 

 

Looks like a ceiling of 7 to me. I imagine if Vegas likes what we do this offseason, they'll give us somewhere between 5.5 and 6.5 as the O/U. Probably 6 or 6.5.

[MrJL]

all this anti-trade down talk... we didn't pass on Watt, we didn't want Watt.  Our 3-4 always featured two pass rushing OLB, rather than one pass rusher, one traditional linebacker and the other edge rusher being a 3-4 DE.  I  don't know why we did things that way, but we did

[Conn]

53 minutes ago, MrJL said:

all this anti-trade down talk... we didn't pass on Watt, we didn't want Watt.  Our 3-4 always featured two pass rushing OLB, rather than one pass rusher, one traditional linebacker and the other edge rusher being a 3-4 DE.  I  don't know why we did things that way, but we did

Not wanting a player is passing on them. That is the definition. 

[MrJL]

18 minutes ago, Conn said:

Not wanting a player is passing on them. That is the definition. 

 

I mean sure, but to me there's a difference between missing out on someone/thing and not wanting that person/thing.