2024 NFL Draft Position/Tracker - Final Pick #2

[JamesMadisonSkins]

18 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

We drafted Phidarian Mathis for just this reason right here. I would trade Allen as well. Let him go try for a ring.

+ Ridgeway. I know Ridgeway was a baller in 2022 but I honestly don't know how he did in 2023. But I would think you could get a rotational piece either at a discount in FA or draft a guy in the 3rd-5th round to add to that trio. 

 

But that was what was SO maddening about Mathis. I get having a solid rotation on the DL, but I was certain we drafted Mathis to replace Payne who I thought we'd tag and trade. The fact that we spent a 2nd on Mathis and then spent huge $$ on Payne after already signing Allen was another great example of how the past regime terribly mismanaged assets, all while the OL continued to crumble. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

If you move below #3, you better be right and the cost will be high.

 

If you are wrong, you will eventually be fired.

 

You move down, you still have to draft a qb.  You can’t wait for future years.  

 

I really don't think we'll move down. That's just my hunch. And I think the only way we consider it is if GMAP and Future HC both feel equally as strong about Maye and Daniels, and would drop to #3 to take whoever the Pats don't take at #2. But that would require the Pats to also have someone they covet between the two. Those two things need to line up, otherwise we take our guy at #2.

 

I'm not sure you'd even entertain a trade for anything lower than #3. I mean what would it take for Atlanta to move up? I think at a minimum we'd be asking for #8, #43, 2025 1st, 2025 2nd and probably Kyle Pitts. We might even have to get their 2026 1st. That would be pretty tempting, and again, I think it would require us to really like one of the other QBs that we would feel good about being able to get at either #8 or trading back up into R1 to get. And even then, we'd likely also need to have some level of confidence in Sam Howell too. 

Edited January 24 by JamesMadisonSkins

[FootballZombie]

5 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I really don't think we'll move down. That's just my hunch. And I think the only way we consider it is if GMAP and Future HC both feel equally as strong about Maye and Daniels, and would drop to #3 to take whoever the Pats don't take at #2. But that would require the Pats to also have someone they covet between the two. Those two things need to line up, otherwise we take our guy at #2.

 

I don't think it happens, but this might be my fav possible scenario since I like all 3 QBs.

 

I still get a guy I like, plus a whole bunch of premo draft assets for virtually no cost. Highway robbery.

[kingdaddy]

5 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

We drafted Phidarian Mathis for just this reason right here. I would trade Allen as well. Let him go try for a ring.

Is Phidarian Mathis any good? He was a terrible reach of a pick in round 2 and has given us nothing with all due respect to his horrible injury in his rookie season. I'm not opposed to trading Allen but I'm not sure I'd count on Mathis for much....maybe we add DT in free agency if we deal Allen?

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

Is Phidarian Mathis any good? He was a terrible reach of a pick in round 2 and has given us nothing with all due respect to his horrible injury in his rookie season. I'm not opposed to trading Allen but I'm not sure I'd count on Mathis for much....maybe we add DT in free agency if we deal Allen?

 nothing I've seen suggests he was a reach.  Going back he was suggested to be a day 2 pick and I'm seeing comparisons to Davlin Tomlinson who was a second round pick

[kingdaddy]

3 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 nothing I've seen suggests he was a reach.  Going back he was suggested to be a day 2 pick and I'm seeing comparisons to Davlin Tomlinson who was a second round pick

Based on pre-draft projections, some would argue the Washington Commanders reached in their second-round selection Alabama defensive tackle Phidarian Mathis. Mathis said he was surprised he went that early, saying his agent and he thought he would be picked later in the third or even fourth round.Apr 30, 2022

 

Just now, kingdaddy said:

Based on pre-draft projections, some would argue the Washington Commanders reached in their second-round selection Alabama defensive tackle Phidarian Mathis. Mathis said he was surprised he went that early, saying his agent and he thought he would be picked later in the third or even fourth round.Apr 30, 2022

 

Found this, I remember after we picked him how people were complaining that he was a reach.

[Going Commando]

17 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

We drafted Phidarian Mathis for just this reason right here. I would trade Allen as well. Let him go try for a ring.

 

Mathis is a bust.  He's the worst draft pick of Rivera's regime by a substantial margin, and I'd be surprised if he made the team next year.  There is no remotely adequate replacement for Jon Allen in house, and Payne is not the leader that Allen is either.  He's not stepping up and filling the void we'd create by moving Allen.

 

If you trade Allen for a second round pick, you'd just have to turn around and spend that pick on an IDL, and you would still end up with a lesser player.  Either that or you'd have to spend in FA and that requires an even tougher sell than just getting Allen to stay with the team he's always played for.

 

The fire sale on our best linemen needs to be over.  We've got to build a real team now, and keeping the few legitimately good players we have is where that starts.  No more crap trades.

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Mathis is a bust.  He's the worst draft pick of Rivera's regime by a substantial margin, and I'd be surprised if he made the team next year.  There is no remotely adequate replacement for Jon Allen in house, and Payne is not the leader that Allen is either.  He's not stepping up and filling the void we'd create by moving Allen.

 

If you trade Allen for a second round pick, you'd just have to turn around and spend that pick on an IDL, and you would still end up with a lesser player.  Either that or you'd have to spend in FA and that requires an even tougher sell than just getting Allen to stay with the team he's always played for.

 

The fire sale on our best linemen needs to be over.  We've got to build a real team now, and keeping the few legitimately good players we have is where that starts.  No more crap trades.

 

Free Agency is good for edge.   I haven't looked at the draft yet for edge but I gather you like it.  With the cap room that we got, IMO we can restore the D line quickly this off season with a FO that knows what they are doing.  

 

My point is yeah I too would keep the DTs.  

 

12 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Is Phidarian Mathis any good? He was a terrible reach of a pick in round 2 and has given us nothing with all due respect to his horrible injury in his rookie season. I'm not opposed to trading Allen but I'm not sure I'd count on Mathis for much....maybe we add DT in free agency if we deal Allen?

 

On an aside none of the picks, zero, among the ones that were criticized by some as a reach at the time from the past regime has aged well. 

Edited January 25 by Skinsinparadise

[redskinss]

33 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Mathis is a bust.  He's the worst draft pick of Rivera's regime by a substantial margin, and I'd be surprised if he made the team next year.  There is no remotely adequate replacement for Jon Allen in house, and Payne is not the leader that Allen is either.  He's not stepping up and filling the void we'd create by moving Allen.

 

If you trade Allen for a second round pick, you'd just have to turn around and spend that pick on an IDL, and you would still end up with a lesser player.  Either that or you'd have to spend in FA and that requires an even tougher sell than just getting Allen to stay with the team he's always played for.

 

The fire sale on our best linemen needs to be over.  We've got to build a real team now, and keeping the few legitimately good players we have is where that starts.  No more crap trades.

 

I agree, we do this to ourselves every year, we complain that we have no talented players and that we suck at drafting and then we suggest we should trade the ones we have and try to draft their replacements.

 

Teams that have salary cap problems or have an abundance of talent at a certain position trade players for future picks, it's the smart thing to do, hence the reason we traded sweat and to a lesser extent Chase, because we couldn't afford to have 4 huge contracts tied up in one unit and they were both going to be free agents, but we don't have an abundance of talent on the d line anymore and we don't have a salary cap problem so the same goes for trading mclaurin.

 

We need to not only keep whatever talent we have we need to seek out more in free agency so that our talented rookie crop will have the best chance at flourishing.

 

We should be buyers for the next few years at least not sellers.

Edited January 25 by redskinss

[DWinzit]

I hated the Mathis selection and he has done zero to date.  That said, he did have some talent. I am fresh defensive schemes and coaching can get him to use his hands and move better. He is never going to be a great pass rusher but I'm holding out hope he can be a decent contributor next year.

 

I hold to my belief they will go hard after a DE in FA. I am good with Allen staying...if he really wants to be in Washington. It did not sound like he wanted to at the end of the year.

[Koolblue13]

The trading Allen talk is pointless and dumb. What an awful way to hurt the defense. By all accounts he's the entire teams leader in the locker room. He's a top 10 IDL and there is no feasible way to replace his presence on or off the field. 

 

A 2nd for probably the best and most important player on our team? Terrible roster management. 

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

The trading Allen talk is pointless and dumb. What an awful way to hurt the defense. By all accounts he's the entire teams leader in the locker room. He's a top 10 IDL and there is no feasible way to replace his presence on or off the field. 

 

A 2nd for probably the best and most important player on our team? Terrible roster management. 

Yeah I think the only reason we’re discussing trading him is because he publicly expressed not not wanting to be part of a rebuild. He might ask for a trade.

[Koolblue13]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I think the only reason we’re discussing trading him is because he publicly expressed not not wanting to be part of a rebuild. He might ask for a trade.

He vented a lot of frustration for sure, but pretending that he asked for a trade is projecting.

 

He can ask for whatever he wants. He's under contact and our build isn't going to take long.

[markmills67]

19 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

+ Ridgeway. I know Ridgeway was a baller in 2022 but I honestly don't know how he did in 2023. But I would think you could get a rotational piece either at a discount in FA or draft a guy in the 3rd-5th round to add to that trio. 

 

But that was what was SO maddening about Mathis. I get having a solid rotation on the DL, but I was certain we drafted Mathis to replace Payne who I thought we'd tag and trade. The fact that we spent a 2nd on Mathis and then spent huge $$ on Payne after already signing Allen was another great example of how the past regime terribly mismanaged assets, all while the OL continued to crumble. 

I know he is 37 but what about Calaise Campbell on a cheap 1 year deal, similar stats to Allen last year. 

 

Only throwing thus out there buddy. 

[The Consigliere]

On 1/24/2024 at 6:48 AM, Warhead36 said:

I think its more likely we trade up for Williams than not take a QB at all.

I think there's next to zero chance it happens, period, which is why at times, I'm just flat out irritated at the trade talk. Its like talking bulls trading michael jordan in 1991, or chiefs trading mahomes. It isn't happening. This is a basic thing. You landed a top 2 pick in a draft regarded as having more top tier QB talent than any draft in a decade or more (I'd go back to '04). You don't have a QB, and indeed, your QB room is a 5th round pick who had an up and down, subpar '23 season and literally nothing else. Your team is at rock bottom too, so there's little point in putting a glittering crown atop of the manure pile, which would be like signing an old quality vet like Cousins (who wouldn't want to come anyway unless its a coming for a paycheck move, and w/zero relevant playoff performances ever, thats hugely unlikely). For me the speculation is not just wrong, it feels outright silly, and ridiculous. A trade down is NOT happening. Can I know that with certainty? No. But I've also been watching the NFL Draft and other drafts since 1988. I've pretty much never seen a team in a similar circumstance avoid QB in this sorta situation like ever, and most examples don't even underline, by degree how obvious and basic the selection here is.

 

And none of that is saying, a trade down wouldn't be great. Of course it would. It absolutely would, if we had anything at QB we could be secure with. But we don't. Not even close. So we're going QB. It's like the Colts not taking a QB in '12, or the Bengals trading down in '20 since the roster sucked. Nope, zero chance. We're taking a QB, period. 

[The Consigliere]

21 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

+ Ridgeway. I know Ridgeway was a baller in 2022 but I honestly don't know how he did in 2023. But I would think you could get a rotational piece either at a discount in FA or draft a guy in the 3rd-5th round to add to that trio. 

 

But that was what was SO maddening about Mathis. I get having a solid rotation on the DL, but I was certain we drafted Mathis to replace Payne who I thought we'd tag and trade. The fact that we spent a 2nd on Mathis and then spent huge $$ on Payne after already signing Allen was another great example of how the past regime terribly mismanaged assets, all while the OL continued to crumble. 

Well, that, plus habitually overrating the ---- out of Alabama prospects who were notorious for being "maxed potential already" guys. Such idiots. He wasn't even a good prospect, period, that made it bad enough, everything else made it so much worse. Such an idiotic franchise. Thank God for this cratering season and Snyder selling. 

15 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Is Phidarian Mathis any good? He was a terrible reach of a pick in round 2 and has given us nothing with all due respect to his horrible injury in his rookie season. I'm not opposed to trading Allen but I'm not sure I'd count on Mathis for much....maybe we add DT in free agency if we deal Allen?

Agreed, I think he's a body and I'd guess there's an 85% chance he doesn't get a second contract here. He's goonna be cheap cover at the position until we can find a replacement between the '24-'26 classes. He's just 1 mistake among many. 

[Warhead36]

Mathis is example 1A of why its dangerous drafting old prospects. Their growth potential and upside is limited and on top of that, you can't even tell if they're really that good because they're 23/24 dominating 19/20 year olds.

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Mathis is a bust.  He's the worst draft pick of Rivera's regime by a substantial margin, and I'd be surprised if he made the team next year.  There is no remotely adequate replacement for Jon Allen in house, and Payne is not the leader that Allen is either.  He's not stepping up and filling the void we'd create by moving Allen.

 

If you trade Allen for a second round pick, you'd just have to turn around and spend that pick on an IDL, and you would still end up with a lesser player.  Either that or you'd have to spend in FA and that requires an even tougher sell than just getting Allen to stay with the team he's always played for.

 

The fire sale on our best linemen needs to be over.  We've got to build a real team now, and keeping the few legitimately good players we have is where that starts.  No more crap trades.

I get that, but it doesn't really matter. The defense is horrible and won't be good for years. Whatever Allen is providing, as good as he is, is very little in terms of turning this around. He won't be around when we "might" be good, and he definitely won't be around when we "are" good. So why keep him? To motivate players to be 28th in the league bad instead of 31st or 32nd? I get we're gonna get worse but I view that as fine in the short term. It will take multiple offseasons, probably 3 to fix this, if things go right. Keeping him is a luxury, like the nats keeping all their '19 vets after the team imploded in '20-'21. You sell them for what you can and hopefuly you make a better rebuild than the nats. 

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

I get that, but it doesn't really matter. The defense is horrible and won't be good for years. Whatever Allen is providing, as good as he is, is very little in terms of turning this around. He won't be around when we "might" be good, and he definitely won't be around when we "are" good. So why keep him? To motivate players to be 28th in the league bad instead of 31st or 32nd? I get we're gonna get worse but I view that as fine in the short term. It will take multiple offseasons, probably 3 to fix this, if things go right. Keeping him is a luxury, like the nats keeping all their '19 vets after the team imploded in '20-'21. You sell them for what you can and hopefuly you make a better rebuild than the nats. 

I think gone are the days where it takes 3+ years to turn a team around. If you hit on coach and QB, you're basically good right away.

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

The trading Allen talk is pointless and dumb. What an awful way to hurt the defense. By all accounts he's the entire teams leader in the locker room. He's a top 10 IDL and there is no feasible way to replace his presence on or off the field. 

 

A 2nd for probably the best and most important player on our team? Terrible roster management. 

The cupboard is bare, the defense was already awful when he was here, and its going to stay awful as we try to build an offense/OL for the new QB, we need picks/bullets to add assets that will be here 4+ years on rookie deals. There's  more value in bullets to blossom in '25-'28, then in the last edges of Allen's prime in '24-'25. 

 

I get what you say: chemistry, building block piece etc that can help create a solid core to build the future defense around and eventually replace, and I understand the value of that as your rebuilding a team, kind of like Darrell Green kept while Norv Turner was trying and failing to build a winner. All that being said, the team was the 31st best in the league with him occupying a very expensive part of it that will not be useful if/when we are good again. It's far better to cut costs, and invest in the future, then in keep paying for an expensive past and present. 

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

He vented a lot of frustration for sure, but pretending that he asked for a trade is projecting.

 

He can ask for whatever he wants. He's under contact and our build isn't going to take long.

 

Man I hope you're right, it's so odd to come out on opposite ends of seemingly every argued topic, but here we are, I disagree on all of this. QB, what to do with Allen, and how long the rebuild will take.

 

I don't think we're looking at 10 wins until '26, and that's if literally everything or most things done this offseason, and '25, really hit. 

[Warhead36]

If Johnson and Maye/Daniels are what we think they are, we could win ten this year.

 

I mean nobody thought the Texans were any good and look at what they accomplished.

 

If you get the coach and QB right, and they can get a good marriage going from day one, you're instantly a good team.

[The Consigliere]

33 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Mathis is example 1A of why its dangerous drafting old prospects. Their growth potential and upside is limited and on top of that, you can't even tell if they're really that good because they're 23/24 dominating 19/20 year olds.

Now add the Alabama factor (I agree 1000% on age, one of the reasons I like Maye, and JJ is intriguing and a lot of the other 1st round guys aren't), and you get players receiving NFL level coaching from coordinators, Saban and sometimes positional coaching. Alabama guys rarely have blown up because they already did their blowing up in school, not a lot more ceiling with them. Mathis was just an X level mistake in every argument imaginable. 

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Now add the Alabama factor (I agree 1000% on age, one of the reasons I like Maye, and JJ is intriguing and a lot of the other 1st round guys aren't), and you get players receiving NFL level coaching from coordinators, Saban and sometimes positional coaching. Alabama guys rarely have blown up because they already did their blowing up in school, not a lot more ceiling with them. Mathis was just an X level mistake in every argument imaginable. 

Bama guys can be hit or miss. I mean some guys are just obviously gonna be great. Julio Jones, Jahmyr Gibbs, those type of guys. But their linemen are always tricky. We hit home runs with Allen and Payne but then you got guys like Mathis, Ryan Anderson etc.

[The Consigliere]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

If Johnson and Maye/Daniels are what we think they are, we could win ten this year.

 

I mean nobody thought the Texans were any good and look at what they accomplished.

 

If you get the coach and QB right, and they can get a good marriage going from day one, you're instantly a good team.

I don't agree.

Our WR Core will be bottom 25-35% of the league.

OUR OL is bottom 15-20% in the league

Our ST"s are a mess besides our punter.

Our DL was awful last year and has a low ceiling because our edge's are hacks.

Our LB's suck

The bulk of our DB's stink.

 

You can't fix that all in one offseason.

 

Now add that you have these teams getting better:

Green Bay

Detroit

Chicago

Tampa

New Orleans

Atlanta

LA

Az

 

 

And these teams still good:

Dallas

Philly

SF

 

I just can't see it, at all. I do see a schedule that's friendly, about 8 games I see as technically winnable (not against tough teams), but how many do we win as the 31st best team in the league and one of the 2-3 worst rosters? I think we lose a majority of those games. How many surprise wins do we get? Usually you get at least 1 or 2. I think Vegas puts us between 5.5-6.5 and they have generally nailed our zone most years (typically only off about .5-1.5 wins most years other than 2015 the past decade). 

 

Next year I'd put our ceiling at: 7

Our expectation at: 5

Our floor at 3.5

 

And all of that beyond the floor assumes a good draft, a good FA haul and average or better than average injury year. 

 

I don't think 8, 9 or 10 wins is attainable. Even w/the easy schedule, we are the easy team on everyone's schedule after all too, and the only teams in the league that can say different are maybe New England and Carolina and NE already has a functional, reasonably strong unit (defense) while all of our units suck. New England was capsized by their offense, quarterbacking and coaching, we were capsized by literally everything. That's what makes a team like us and Carolina, worse than other teams like Arizona or New England who also finished bottom 5 bad. 

[Warhead36]

We have no idea how other teams will be and have no idea how some of our other players will respond under different coaching. I could see the Big 3 of the NFC having big fall off seasons next year due to a variety of reasons.

 

Such is the beauty of the NFL.