2024 NFL Draft Position/Tracker - Final Pick #2

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

Nothing I said or suggested is in any way shape or form an endorsement of Bruce Allen.  You said it.  No reason to equate me to Bruce Allen.  Not fair.  My current choice is MHJ because I believe him to be the best football player in the draft and I'm not strongly confident that there's a likely franchise QB there.  Possible?  Yeah.  Likely?  No.  But it is very likely in my view that MHJ will be really, really good.  If that makes me dumb, as the other poster said, or is somehow an endorsement of Bruce Allen in your opinion, so be it.

 

What i said was it fits the philosophy of the Bruce and Ron regime in being risk adversive -- while also suggesting you likely didn't care for those regimes because of poor execution.  

 

I didn't say squat about you being a fan of Bruce Allen or equated you to Bruce Allen.   That's your imagination taking it there.  

 

The idea that MHJ is really really good and that makes you dumb according to the other poster -- is a strawman hit on @mistertim IMO.  He was also very specific about his point.  He didn't say anyone who thinks MHJ is good is dumb.  He was making a different point about taking a WR over a QB. 

 

You are taking shots at us in these posts ironically while accusing us of taking shots.  

 

But to bring the temperature down some.  I'll clarify my point again.  You aren't of course Bruce Allen or Ron.  But the philosophy of both of their FOs was to be risk adverse.  Whether that's right or wrong is in the eye of the beholder.  I want to swing for the fences this off season and that starts with QB.  I don't want to take the safest player in the draft.  I want to take the guy who can change the fortunes of this franchise and I am OK with risking being wrong.   

Edited January 2 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

I got no issue taking MH jr. Hes that good. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

I got no issue taking MH jr. Hes that good. 

 

I don't either in a vaccum.  He's my favorite player in this draft as I stated on this thread eons ago.  But I do personally have an issue with it if they are picking 2nd unless they don't like the top end QBs in this draft.  And if they don't they better be right.

[Warhead36]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't either in a vaccum.  He's my favorite player in this draft as I stated on this thread eons ago.  But I do personally have an issue with it if they are picking 2nd unless they don't like the top end QBs in this draft.  And if they don't they better be right.

Yeah Im with you. If youre even 50% confident in any QB you go for it. 
 

But I aint cryin with Mh jr. Youre getting Larry Fitzgerald for the next decade+.

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I got no issue taking MH jr. Hes that good. 

 

He's amazing. But who's going to throw him the ball? "I need therapy for my PTSD" Sam Howell? Mediocre journeyman Jacoby Brissett? Some other castoff journeyman? The history of incredibly talented WRs who play without good QBs is not kind.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah Im with you. If youre even 50% confident in any QB you go for it. 
 

But I aint cryin with Mh jr. Youre getting Larry Fitzgerald for the next decade+.

 

I am not crying in real time if they took him.   Like I said, I've had a shrine to Marvin Harrison on this thread and others.

 

They had a 20 year gap between 2000 and 2020 where they only landed with a top 3 pick twice.  So once every 20 years. 

 

Now we had the closest gap of a 4 year span where we've had a top 3 pick.  So we have a chance for a do over for the mistake of the 2000 draft where we went with the "best player available" instead of the QB.  Arguably that ended up the death knell of the last regime.  Just about every draft podcast through this day especially Kiper still makes fun of how we skipped a QB that time and you don't skip QB when you are picking high if you don't have that guy.  So if we double down and do that again and skip over lets say the next Justin Herbert we'd be the joke of the NFL. 

 

So if the GM skips QB, they better be right otherwise, he should be fired.  I am not worried though, I don't expect the GM to pass over QB.

Edited January 2 by Skinsinparadise

[Number 44]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

What i said was it fits the philosophy of the Bruce and Ron regime in being risk adversive -- while also suggesting you likely didn't care for those regimes because of poor execution.  

 

I didn't say squat about you being a fan of Bruce Allen or equated you to Bruce Allen.   That's your imagination taking it there.  

 

The idea that MHJ is really really good and that makes you dumb according to the other poster -- is a strawman hit on @mistertim IMO.  He was also very specific about his point.  He didn't say anyone who thinks MHJ is good is dumb.  He was making a different point. 

 

You are taking shots at us in these posts ironically while accusing us of taking shots.  

 

But to bring the temperature down some.  I'll clarify my point again.  You aren't of course Bruce Allen or Ron.  But the philosophy of both of their FOs was to be risk adversive.  Whether that's right or wrong is in the eye of the beholder.  I want to swing for the fences this off season and that starts with QB.  I don't want to take the safest player in the draft.  I want to take the guy who can change the fortunes of this franchise and I am OK with risking being wrong.   

There was no reason to bring up Bruce Allen and say my viewpoint is an endorsement of him.  No reason.  Your arguments can certainly be presented without that.  That was the strawman argument in this.  We did draft RG3 under Allen/Snyder, so they did take a shot at a franchise QB.  I'm having a hard time remembering when we took a WR comparable to Harrison at 1.2 during their time here.  I don't buy that drafting MHJ endorses Allen at all.  Make your case for whatever QB you think should be our pick at 1.2.  The names Bruce Allen, Dan Snyder, and Ron Rivera have zero to do with the discussion.  As to the other poster, I said I'd take MHJ at 1.2 as of right now because he's the best player in the draft, IMO.  He said that was dumb.  I misunderstood nothing.  Have a good evening.

[Dirt]

What would typically be the haul for trading from second to third?  A second and a late rounder?  Leaving us with 3 second rounds?  Letting us trade back into the first to get a top OL?

 

Just daydreaming and exploring all hypotheticals lol

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

As to the other poster, I said I'd take MHJ at 1.2 as of right now because he's the best player in the draft, IMO.  He said that was dumb.  I misunderstood nothing.  Have a good evening.

 

I said it was a dumb idea to draft a WR 2nd overall when there will be multiple talented QB prospects available and we wouldn't currently have a decent QB to throw our shiny new WR the ball. I never said you were dumb, which is what you've seemed to insinuate that I was saying on a couple of occasions now.

 

The only reason we shouldn't go QB is if our new GM/HC have very serious reservations about all of the top QBs in this class. And if they do and they pass on them, as @Skinsinparadisesaid, they damn well better be right because if we miss out on a another franchise QB with our chance with a top pick it will be very very bad.

 

But hey, at least we'll have a guy who can make occasional circus catches from a poor to mediocre QBs while we continue to not sniff the playoffs.

Edited January 2 by mistertim

[Number 44]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I said it was a dumb idea to draft a WR 2nd overall when there will be multiple talented QB prospects available and we wouldn't currently have a decent QB to throw our shiny new WR the ball. I never said you were dumb, which is what you've seemed to insinuate that I was saying on a couple of occasions now.

 

The only reason we shouldn't go QB is if our new GM/HC have very serious reservations about all of the top QBs in this class. And if they do and they pass on them, as @Skinsinparadisesaid, they damn well better be right because if we miss out on a another franchise QB with our chance with a top pick it will be very very bad.

 

But hey, at least we'll have a guy who can make occasional circus catches from a poor to mediocre QBs while we continue to not sniff the playoffs.

I beg your pardon.  You categorized my current opinion of what we should do at 1.2 as being dumb.  That was very clear, and try as you might, you really can't walk that back, any more than you can walk back your initial comment to me, claiming that I said Nix would be a franchise QB, which was flat out false, as you know..

 

No matter who the QB is, or the WRs are, none of it will work until such time as we've made major changes in the OL.  We need a lot.  That isn't a reason to not draft the best player possible.  It just isn't.  Between the draft and FA, QB, OL, WR, TE, RB, EDGE, LB, and DB have to be addressed.  To think all of the holes will be permanently filled in one off-season is a pipe-dream, IMO, but that is no reason not to get started, is it?

 

I said from the beginning that I would support our new brain-trust is they do feel they've identified a QB that they feel has a real good chance to be that franchise guy and draft him.  

You now seem to be saying what I've been saying -- that our new brain-trust has to be strongly confident that a QB may be our franchise guy before using pick 1.2 on him.  Truthfully, I really can't imagine talking heads, reporters, or anyone, really, making an argument that a pick of Harrison at 1.2 would be a bad pick.

[The Consigliere]

6 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

No. Draft one guy and commit everything to him from day one. No needless drama.

I fully expect and need the team to continue taking shots at the position. QB's are the most valuable assets in the game. It is well worthwhile to have more than one. I'm not married to getting two this year, but considering the depth of the class, it wouldn't bother me at all to grab a 2nd. 

[mistertim]

32 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

I beg your pardon.  You categorized my current opinion of what we should do at 1.2 as being dumb.  That was very clear, and try as you might, you really can't walk that back, any more than you can walk back your initial comment to me, claiming that I said Nix would be a franchise QB, which was flat out false, as you know..

 

No matter who the QB is, or the WRs are, none of it will work until such time as we've made major changes in the OL.  We need a lot.  That isn't a reason to not draft the best player possible.  It just isn't.  Between the draft and FA, QB, OL, WR, TE, RB, EDGE, LB, and DB have to be addressed.  To think all of the holes will be permanently filled in one off-season is a pipe-dream, IMO, but that is no reason not to get started, is it?

 

I said from the beginning that I would support our new brain-trust is they do feel they've identified a QB that they feel has a real good chance to be that franchise guy and draft him.  

You now seem to be saying what I've been saying -- that our new brain-trust has to be strongly confident that a QB may be our franchise guy before using pick 1.2 on him.  Truthfully, I really can't imagine talking heads, reporters, or anyone, really, making an argument that a pick of Harrison at 1.2 would be a bad pick.

 

I categorized it as a dumb opinion and dumb idea. Which I think it is. That's completely different than calling you dumb or saying you're a dumb person. So I'm not walking anything back. I'm explaining a subtle but very real difference in those two types of statements.

 

And I'm sure pretty much all talking heads, reporters, etc. would agree that MHJ is a phenomenal receiver, but I think there would be more than a couple saying that it was a bit of an odd selection for a team with no QB and who also had the chance to select a potential franchise QB...which everyone knows is orders of magnitude more important a position than pretty much every other on the field.

 

I still have yet to hear your plan for who would be throwing to Harrison. Shell shocked Sam? Brissett? Another retread journeyman? Some mid round QB? IMO we're probably pretty unlikely to be drafting this high again soon, so at some point we'd have to take a chance and draft a lesser 1st round QB prospect in the future. And who knows when that will be. By that time Harrison could be demanding a trade for all we know, because he's sick of having crappy QBs throwing the ball to him and he wants to go to a contender.

 

If you don't have a franchise QB and you have a chance to draft a top tier QB prospect you take the chance, unless your FO truly has major concerns about him. Playing it safe has done nothing for us in the past (which is what @Skinsinparadisewas alluding to) and won't do anything for us now. 

Edited January 2 by mistertim

[Number 44]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I categorized it as a dumb opinion and dumb idea. Which I think it is. That's completely different than calling you dumb or saying you're a dumb person. So I'm not walking anything back. I'm explaining a subtle but very real difference in those two types of statements.

 

And I'm sure pretty much all talking heads, reporters, etc. would agree that MHJ is a phenomenal receiver, but I think there would be more than a couple saying that it was a bit of an odd selection for a team with no QB and who also had the chance to select a potential franchise QB...which everyone knows is orders of magnitude more important a position than pretty much every other on the field.

 

I still have yet to hear your plan for who would be throwing to Harrison. Shell shocked Sam? Brissett? Another retread journeyman? Some mid round QB? IMO we're probably pretty unlikely to be drafting this high again soon, so at some point we'd have to take a chance and draft a lesser 1st round QB prospect in the future. And who knows when that will be. By that time Harrison could be demanding a trade for all we know, because he's sick of having crappy QBs throwing the ball to him and he wants to go to a contender.

 

If you don't have a franchise QB and you have a chance to draft a top tier QB prospect you take the chance, unless your FO has major concerns about him. Playing it safe has done nothing for us in the past (which is what @Skinsinparadisewas alluding to) and won't do anything for us now. 

 

Your wording and your meaning was crystal clear.  No amount of double-talk changes that.  If you can't have a conversation without classifying the other party's ideas as being dumb, your opinion won't mean much to them.  We disagree.  Simple as that.  

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, Number 44 said:

 

Your wording and your meaning was crystal clear.  No amount of double-talk changes that.  If you can't have a conversation without classifying the other party's ideas as being dumb, your opinion won't mean much to them.  We disagree.  Simple as that.  

 

It's not double-talk. .It's very clear and not especially difficult to follow. I'm attacking your position, not you personally. If my wording affects your sensibilities would it make you feel better if I said something like "ill-advised" or "imprudent" decision instead?

[Rufus T Firefly]

Boy this thread has gotten boring tonight.

[BBLXIX]

4 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

We are gonna find out soon if they agree with you. Fields has been damn good the past 5 weeks. 

 

"Damn good" seems a bit of a stretch, but maybe that's subjective. He has been better, but overall still a rollercoaster.

 

VS Falcons - 268 passing yards 1 PTD (Another was debatably dropped), 45 rushing yards 1RTD, 1 Fumble (When game was out of hand)

VS Arizona - 170 passing yards 1 PTD, 1 INT, 97 rushing yards 1 RTD

@B-rowns - 166 passing yards 1 PTD, 2 INT. 30 rushing yards, 2 Fumbles

VS Detroit - 223 passing yards 1 PTD, 58 rushing yards, 1 RTD (Chicago controlled the pace against Detroit for most of the game)

@ M-innesota - 217 passing yards, 59 rushing yards, 2 nearly fatal fumbles (Their defense gifted them like 3 or 4 INTs in good position against Dobbs, Offense managed 0 TDs)

Edited January 2 by BBLXIX

[mistertim]

19 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Boy this thread has gotten boring tonight.

 

[FootballZombie]

28 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Boy this thread has gotten boring tonight.

 

I got u fam

 

 

[Jumbo]

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

5 hours ago, Number 44 said:

MHJ the best football player in this draft - at the X, a position we need badly.  I'd agree with you if I was comfortable that a franchise QB would be there for us.  I'm not.  Take MHJ.  Nix may be a good lottery pick in round 2 once you've got MHJ in the fold.

 

I hear you, but I cant do it. We dont have the luxury of using our top pick on WR. Trust me I would love to have him on our squad, but if we are not taking QB with the top pick, I'd rather take the LT out of Penn St. Or possibly even better (if the opportunity presents itself), trading back a few spots (no later than 6-7) and getting the Kings Ransom in a trade, how the Rams did us with RG3. 

 

I think some people are forgetting, our Defense is HORRIBLE and damner depleted after the Young & Sweat trades. We need stud DE's. 2 of them. Annnd we still need to address the O-Line with Day 1 and or Day 2 pix. 

 

MHJR is the shiny sexier pick, but there's a "generational" talent WR every other year. Plus we can address WR in FA. We (the front office) have to display patience and build this team correctly.  

Edited January 2 by LetMeSeeYourWarFace21

[CapsSkins]

1 hour ago, LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 said:

 

I hear you, but I cant do it. We dont have the luxury of using our top pick on WR. Trust me I would love to have him on our squad, but if we are not taking QB with the top pick, I'd rather take the LT out of Penn St. Or possibly even better (if the opportunity presents itself), trading back a few spots (no later than 6-7) and getting the Kings Ransom in a trade, how the Rams did us with RG3. 

 

I think some people are forgetting, our Defense is HORRIBLE and damner depleted after the Young & Sweat trades. We need stud DE's. 2 of them. Annnd we still need to address the O-Line with Day 1 and or Day 2 pix. 

 

MHJR is the shiny sexier pick, but there's a "generational" talent WR every other year. Plus we can address WR in FA. We (the front office) have to display patience and build this team correctly.  

 

Until a long-term starting QB is solidified, it is the #1 organizational priority.  I have no doubt the new regime will go QB with their first pick. The questions are just who and where in the order.

 

Of course, that assumes they don't address it in another fashion. Like, say, trading for Fields and drafting MH Jr at 2OA plus a Bo Nix-type prospect on Day 2.

Edited January 2 by CapsSkins

[Bacon]

5 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I got no issue taking MH jr. Hes that good. 

If I were running the Bears, I would accept a trade with the Pats or Commanders, use the pick swap to draft Harrison, then draft Daniels or Penix at #10. There's not that big a difference in talent in this stacked draft class; any of them could be successful in the right system. But right now, it's hard to say that they have everything they need to make anyone successful.

 

And yeah, I think they should cut ties with Fields because he's not getting any younger or cheaper. If they could get a 2nd or 3rd for Fields, they could use the pick to bolster the O line. 

[Silvernon]

6 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I got no issue taking MH jr. Hes that good. 

That's how I feel, unlike the Chase Young draft. MHJ would be a game changer for this O.

[mhd24]

1 hour ago, Bacon said:

If I were running the Bears, I would accept a trade with the Pats or Commanders, use the pick swap to draft Harrison, then draft Daniels or Penix at #10. There's not that big a difference in talent in this stacked draft class; any of them could be successful in the right system. But right now, it's hard to say that they have everything they need to make anyone successful.

 

And yeah, I think they should cut ties with Fields because he's not getting any younger or cheaper. If they could get a 2nd or 3rd for Fields, they could use the pick to bolster the O line. 

 

I wouldn't do that if I were Chicago.  Take whomever at QB you like at 1, take a really good WR with your other 1st rounder, and go from there.  Nabers would be the top WR in almost any other draft.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Silvernon said:

That's how I feel, unlike the Chase Young draft. MHJ would be a game changer for this O.

 

He'd be awesome.  He's a great player.  He's my favorite player in the draft.  But just like having Trent, Sean Taylor, Portis, S. Moss, etc stars get lost in the sauce without having that QB.  Arguably the most talented WR of all time, Calvin Johnson, megatron, didn't change the fortune of the Lions.  He ultimately retired in part because the Lions just didn't win.

 

Some say get the other stuff first and then find that QB.  The challenge for that is the other stuff is easier to find.   Get the QB when you got a chance. This team is rarely in position to shop at the Tiffany's line of the QB aisle.  We are at it now, to skip it and just assume we will back there at the right time or find a diamond in the rough is a big assumption -- the last 30 some odd years shows the odds are against us that we will find the QB when the time is "right".

 

 

https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/why-calvin-johnson-retire

 

Between 2007 and 2015, Calvin Johnson was among the top receivers in the NFL. He was one of the Detroit Lions' most reliable players in team history. He provided them with the spectacular playmaking presence they have missed since Barry Sanders left the team.

Johnson said that his decision to leave the NFL after nine years was influenced by the team's inability to challenge for honors.

Edited January 2 by Skinsinparadise