2024 NFL Draft Position/Tracker - Final Pick #2

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Put me down 1,000% for trading down. If we have the 2nd or 3rd and Maye is on the board you get that random and hopefully stay in the Top 6. We’d be looking at a 1st and 2nd and a 1st next year. That’s franchise changing return to likely drafting the position we desperately need anyway (OT)

lol you are intense on this position including if I recall correctly being willing to help the Giants solve their QB issues and trade them Maye if we pick 2nd.

 

If so Maye would put a big circle next to his 2 matches a season versus this team.

 

I am Ok with trading down. But as Keim said in his podcast today multiple options can be argued for so it will be an interesting off season.

 

I am OK with trading down. I am good with taking Marvin Harrison. I am good with taking Fashanu.  I am good with taking Daniels or Maye. I can argue for any scenario for different reasons

Edited December 11, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Renegade7]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I didn’t say anything about Howell’s play forcing them to look for a QB. My point isn’t even a whit about looking for Plan B for Howell because of how he’s playing. If you read my comments on the QB thread I am VERY pro Howell and still am.

 

As for National love. I don’t care about it but to play on that point some still think he’s a low end starter or high end backup. And then some really like him. 

 

My point is I think it’s nuts to not consider if we are picking top 5.  It’s the GM’s job to give his best guess. 
 

it’s a big call. And he needs to have the balls to make the call one way or another.  What’s Howell’s upside versus whomever lands at their pick.
 

I like Sam but I don’t want to punt on a potential elite QB if the GM sees it that way and had questions about Sam’s upside. If being the operative word.

 

Every beat guy who covers this team seems to agree on this. I don’t think this is a far out position. I expect a QB will be considered heavily. With the operate word being considered as opposed to taken 

 

Same way how many of those best guys said we had to take Young even though we didn't have a QB now saying we should take a QB even if we think we might already have one...

 

You're right, its up to the GM, it just comes across like throwing all your pro-Howell support in the trash if you believe in not looking to see if he turns out elite because someone who's never played at this level has a better chance to.

 

The GM could be wrong as well.  I would not be happy if they made that move and would only forgive them if it works.  I'll never forget how Gibbs looked at 2 seconds of film on Ramsey, knew he was trash, and immediately went to go get Brunell.  Thats not what I figure happening with the new front office at all, so you right, it will be a tough call and I'm standing at a risk not worth taking if we can be in position to give Howell more time and pick his replacement in a different draft.

 

I can be convinced there might not be an elite QB in the next draft, I'm not buying this will be the last draft with any.  Howell is at least a servicable stop gap until we sure he can't be elite and we THEN need to find someone who could be or already is.  Making that call now feels like an unforced error in the making.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Renegade7

[RWJ]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

it’s a big call. And he needs to have the balls to make the call one way or another.  What’s Howell’s upside versus whomever lands at their pick.
 

I like Sam but I don’t want to punt on a potential elite QB if the GM sees it that way and had questions about Sam’s upside. If being the operative word.

 

Every beat guy who covers this team seems to agree on this. I don’t think this is a far out position. I expect a QB will be considered heavily. With the operate word being considered as opposed to taken 

I'm with you, SIP.  Also, when you're at 3-5 overall in the 1st you have to consider a QB as a new GM IF there are questions at QB.  Selecting that high in the 1st and having the talent at QB in this draft with those you have mentioned and others, WIlliams, Nix and Daniels, my favorite, it has to seriously be considered.  To try to move up to 3-5 overall takes a bounty of picks and future 1st rounders.  

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I'll give you my answer, SIP.  We really don't know.  He's had one full year to play under a poor OL.  The next GM will play a huge roll in us finding out.  

 

“We” don’t know indeed  but the next GM will unlikely be someone where people like us can match our football wits with.

 

If we are hiring a top GM, they will have 3 years of college tape and 1 pro season to look at. I doubt they’d throw up their hands and say he can’t tell if Howell has elite upside. Now he might be wrong but he has enough to make a strong educated guess. 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Daniel.redskins]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Farve was trade because he was a drug addict, someone else will have to speak to if they thought he was better then the person starting before him...i mean in your scenario, we draft a QB with a top 5 pick, Howell beats them out, then we trade that dude for peanuts on the dollar?

I agree. If we draft a qb, Howell needs to be traded during the draft. If Howell wins the "hypothetical" QB competition, then we completely wasted our top 5 pick and lost all value with the rookie QB. Also, I do not want the rookie QB to deal with a controversy while learning how to play pro football. He needs all the reps, plain and simple.

 

If Howell finishes the season strong it makes zero sense to move on. Trade back for picks and stock this team with young hungry talent. Now if Howell looks like complete **** to finish the year, I'll be on board for a QB. 

[DiscoBob]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

 

I don't think Howell goes anywhere, whether we draft a QB with our 1st or later in the draft.  We need a backup QB.  I think he stays for another season and maybe the second year which would be his last year.  

 

That's fine, and I don't necessarily think you are wrong, but I still wonder what the return would be?  What would a team like Pittsburgh offer?

[RWJ]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

“We” don’t know indeed  but the next GM will unlikely be someone where people like us can match our football wits with.

 

If we are hiring a top GM, they will have 3 years of college tape and 1 pro season to look at. I doubt they’d throw up their hands and say he can’t tell if Howell has elite upside. Now he might be wrong but he has enough to make a strong educated guess. 

 

 

I agree with your philosophy and can only hope our next GM is not a proven GM retread hire though.  I would doubt it because I believe the hiring of Shen puts that one to bed.  

3 minutes ago, DiscoBob said:

 

That's fine, and I don't necessarily think you are wrong, but I still wonder what the return would be?  What would a team like Pittsburgh offer?

Hard to say.  Some teams could see him as a high round pick (i.e., 2nd/3rd) and other teams could see him a less valuable.  

Edited December 11, 2023 by RWJ

[bh32]

If I was GM I don't know if I would go QB..Ron has left this team with very little talent with his drafting an FA pickups..I would try to accumulate as many picks as possible in the top 100 and trade some of those picks for future picks..it's gonna take a couple years to get were washington is ready to compete

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Just now, bh32 said:

If I was GM I don't know if I would go QB..Ron has left this team with very little talent with his drafting an FA pickups..I would try to accumulate as many picks as possible in the top 100 and trade some of those picks for future picks..it's gonna take a couple years to get were washington is ready to compete

This. And we MIGHT have the cheat code in a QB already. It could be a quicker rebuild if we handle the draft right. Particularly if we can accumulate picks by trading down. Drafting a QB could put us in Carolina territory. Now I think we’d have way more talent than Carolina does. And have draft capital and our own pick next year at least. But I really want to try and build the team out and see what Howell can do in 2024. The backup as I stated earlier is you try and get 2025 picks. If Howell doesn’t solidify the role you have more ammo to get a QB next year.

 

Howell is 23. I believe Jayden Daniel’s is 24. Sam still have a lot of room to grow and hopefully we can put some pieces around him this off season to prove it. 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Same way how many of those best guys said we had to take Young even though we didn't have a QB now saying we should take a QB even if we think we might already have one...

 

 

I am not talking about beat guys being right.  But even Keim who is high on Howell (as I am) realizes they got to consider it.  Consider it not per se do.

 

I don't recall "all" the beat-radio guys by the way saying take Chase over a QB.  And lol, what went down there, actually helps the point some.  The reason used not to take a Qb was let Haskins grow, give him more experience, better supporting cast.  Some forgot but his last two games that season he played well.  There was some optimism at that time.

 

18 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You're right, its up to the GM, it just comes across like throwing all you pro-Howell support in the trash if you believe in not looking to see if he turns out elite because someone who's never played at this level has a better chance to.

 

 

Depends on your perspective.  To me it feels like old school Dan dysfunction to pass an opportunity picking top 5 to wonder about a QB we got in house to put it off the table.  And i am not even saying again they should do it.  But ruling it out feels like total dysfunction to me.   

 

You got to be in love with Howell to not consider.  And if the new GM is smitten, terrific, run it back with Howell.  But if you aren't in love with him and love a prospect -- have the courage of your conviction versus being fearful of a mistake.

 

18 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

The GM could be wrong as well.  I would not be happy if they made that move and would only forgive them if it works.  I

 

He can be wrong either way.  He can be Gibbs and want Campbell over Aaron Rodgers or Rivera wanting to run it back with Haskins and admitted later he didn't care for Herbert or Tua.

 

Or maybe Howell is Aaron Rodgers and we discarded him for the next Patrick Ramsey.    The GM has to figure this out and give it his best guess versus playing it medium.  We've had two regimes in a row that majored in medium.  i want the major in medium stuff to stop.  Have the balls to make the call either way.  If you are going with Howell, I'd want to hear the GM really didn't think that highly of the QBs he passed over or thought Howell is headed for greatness. 

 

If I hear later for example look we thought Daniels could be the next Lamar Jackson.  But it felt safer with Howell and Howell ends up pedestrian to good and Daniels kills us in the division -- the GM will have to wear that.  I think he will know that so am not really worried that it won't happen -- am just surprised that some are not into this.    It's about putting the decision on the table.  That's all. 

18 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Making that call now feels like an unforced error in the making.

 

I hear you.  We got a different take.  For me its dysfunction to not even consider it. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[cakmoney61]

3 minutes ago, bh32 said:

If I was GM I don't know if I would go QB..Ron has left this team with very little talent with his drafting an FA pickups..I would try to accumulate as many picks as possible in the top 100 and trade some of those picks for future picks..it's gonna take a couple years to get were washington is ready to compete

Simply put, Ron was an atrocious GM and equally as bad at coaching.  His greatest contribution to this team would be to lose their last four games.

[DiscoBob]

 

12 minutes ago, RWJ said:

 

Hard to say.  Some teams could see him as a high round pick (i.e., 2nd/3rd) and other teams could see him a less valuable.  

 

No one of importance is asking my opinion, but Howell seems a better bet than any of the QBs that are gonna go after about pick 15-20.

[Stone Cold]

Perhaps the silver lining in this situation is a new GM/Coach will have an objective opinion.  They won’t be married to any of the roster.  So, if we stick with Howell, that’s a ringing endorsement from the decision makers.  If we take a QB, it’ll be clear they are betting on draft day talent projection.  Whatever they choose, I just want them to be right.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

This. And we MIGHT have the cheat code in a QB already. It could be a quicker rebuild if we handle the draft right. Particularly if we can accumulate picks by trading down. Drafting a QB could put us in Carolina territory. Now I think we’d have way more talent than Carolina does. And have draft capital and our own pick next year at least. But I really want to try and build the team out and see what Howell can do in 2024. The backup as I stated earlier is you try and get 2025 picks. If Howell doesn’t solidify the role you have more ammo to get a QB next year.

 

Howell is 23. I believe Jayden Daniel’s is 24. Sam still have a lot of room to grow and hopefully we can put some pieces around him this off season to prove it. 

 

Jayden is 22 and will turn 23 soon. 

 

How would you feel if the QB you passed over ends up great and the dude you run it back with peaks at good or less than that?

 

I know some here don't give a rats behind if that QB they passed over hurts us in our own division let alone trading the pick to a division rival per your thoughts -- but I bet the GM cares.  It's probably happened once in a blue moon but I can't recall a team ever in the top 5 range, a team trading their pick to a division rival to help them get their QB.  The reason why a GM would likely care is you got to wear it in the divison.  

 

Look I liked Howell in college, i've watched his college games multiple times.  I've defended him to death on that QB thread.  If you forced me to bet on him, i'd guess his ceiling is good.  And I'd also guess he meets that ceiling.  But am not a scout.  Neither are you.

 

I like Drake Maye's upside over Howell.  And probably Daniels, too.  But its tricky of course to translate college play to the NFL.  The good news is its not for us to dicipher that.

 

What's the harm in having one of the best evaluators in the game -- and yes I am that confident Harris is going to hire one of the best minds in the business to make that call and consider all options?

11 minutes ago, Stone Cold said:

Perhaps the silver lining in this situation is a new GM/Coach will have an objective opinion.  They won’t be married to any of the roster.  So, if we stick with Howell, that’s a ringing endorsement from the decision makers.  If we take a QB, it’ll be clear they are betting on draft day talent projection.  Whatever they choose, I just want them to be right.

 

Exactly.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[cakmoney61]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Jayden is 22 and will turn 23 soon. 

 

How would you feel if the QB you passed over ends up great and the dude you run it back with peaks at good or less than that?

 

I know some here don't give a rats behind if that QB they passed over hurts us in our own division let alone trading the pick to a dvision rival per your thoughts -- but I are and i bet the GM does too.  It's probably happened once in a blue moon but I can't recall a team ever in the top 5 range, a team trading their pick to a division rival to help them get their QB.  The reason why a GM would likely care is you got to wear it in the divison.  

 

Look I liked Howell in college, i've watched his college games multiple times.  I've defended him to death on that QB thread.  If you forced me to bet on him, i'd guess his ceiling is good.  And I'd also guess he meets that ceiling.  But am not a scout.  Neither are you.

 

I like Drake Maye's upside over Howell.  And probably Daniels, too.  But its tricky of course to translate college play to the NFL.  The good news is its not for us to dicipher that.

 

What's the harm in hiring one of the best evaluators in the game -- and yes I am that confident Harris is going to hire one of the best minds in the business to make that call and consider all options?

For Washington not to do their due diligence at every position, especially the QB position, would be the height of irresponsibility and neglect.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

For Washington not to do their due diligence at every position, especially the QB position, would be the height of irresponsibility and neglect.

 

Exactly.   We got 5 top 100 picks.  We got 90 but it likely ends up closer to 100 million in cap space.

 

Anything and everything is on the table.    The GM shouldn't be married to any preconceptions.

 

If he wants to build around Howell -- do it.

 

If he wants to build around another QB -- do it.

 

If he wants to tear this roster down even more.  do it.

 

If he thinks he can build a winner fast and wants to reload.  do it.

 

Everything on the table.  No one is off limits.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Renegade7]

@Skinsinparadise

 

Let's pull this back a second because you hit on something that I agree is the core of our disagreement.

 

Yes, this smells like dysfunction, but id say insisting we have to be open to the bright and shiny QB if we aren't sure about the guy we have is ALSO something Dan would do and has done (Jeff George over Brad Johnson for example).  Everything that glitters ain't gold, SIP.

 

I'm surprised people bought as much into Haskins last two games as they did, I got banned over a thread I started to get him here and even I was done before and still after that.

 

If it works, fine, I can admit I'm wrong. It won't be the first time, it won't be the last.  But taking a stand not to do something like that shouldn't be looked at as crazy.  If the GM is sure id like to see the evidence, right now I'm a hard no in context to addressing this next year if I'm proven wrong instead of now before I even know I'm right.

 

I'd love to know which training camp even he's at and open to the public so I can get in like 2nd or 3rd row like we did one year it was at FedEx so if I see the New GM I can try and get his attention and ask him straight up "you sure about this? Why?". He'll be on radio at some point and be asked about it if he does, I'll listen, GMs have come on the radio before or done press conferences. 

 

God help us if HC doesn't agree like we haven't seen that before...

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Renegade7

[SoCalSkins]

Dallas winning helps us. They are more likely to have something to play for against us. 

[NYSkins21]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

This. And we MIGHT have the cheat code in a QB already. It could be a quicker rebuild if we handle the draft right. Particularly if we can accumulate picks by trading down. Drafting a QB could put us in Carolina territory. Now I think we’d have way more talent than Carolina does. And have draft capital and our own pick next year at least. But I really want to try and build the team out and see what Howell can do in 2024. The backup as I stated earlier is you try and get 2025 picks. If Howell doesn’t solidify the role you have more ammo to get a QB next year.

 

Howell is 23. I believe Jayden Daniel’s is 24. Sam still have a lot of room to grow and hopefully we can put some pieces around him this off season to prove it. 

The issue is not age for me. Howell has 2 years on his rookie deal and Daniels, Maye or Nix have 4.

1 minute ago, SoCalSkins said:

Dallas winning helps us. They are more likely to have something to play for against us. 

Pretty much every game/scenario played out perfectly for us this week. Starting with New England on Thursday.

[Rufus T Firefly]

4 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Dallas winning helps us. They are more likely to have something to play for against us. 

But they still very likely will not. 

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, RWJ said:

You say Charley succeeded.  Great. Your opinion.  I say he failed.  He had a plethora of picks and stunk the joint up.  My opinion.  What did he do after leaving the Redskins?  Was he successful?  Beathard was the last great GM we have had.  

He was a total disaster, he went 0 for the nineties until 1999. You can't blow an entire decade of drafts and be a quality GM. Hell even Cerrato had a better term as GM in terms of the draft than Casserly had in the nineties, and it's worth noting, other than the patently obvious in 1999, the best "athlete" in the draft, Champ Bailey, and the best OL available at the top of round 2, what did he actually accomplish? He wasted a top 65 pick on Lloyd Harrison, and blew every single other pick in that class just like he did the decade worth of picks preceeding it. I can't believe anyone anywhere thinks Casserly deserved anything. He had a decade to play with. Why do people think we sucked in nineties? Norv Turner could only ---- up so much, he needed Casserly's help to ensure they couldn't dig their way out of that hole (I'll give Casserly this much: supposedly he preferred Dilfer to mega bust Shulder, and Joey Galloway to mega bust Michael Westbunk). I'm stunned anyone could defend him (not you, who you're responding too). I will add that Beatherd was utterly horrific with our drafts after 1982 and 1983. The seeds of the failure of the 1990's were laid with horrendous drafts from 1985-1988 with Beathard. The only good thing I can say about his second half of the eighties is that he #1 did a great job of peeling off supplemental USFL talent with later picks in those dispersal drafts (he wasn't picking all that high, but managed to finagle guys like Clark, Sanders and Kelvin Bryant via picks and trades), and he and Casserly did a good job building the strike team in '87 while keeping the team unified so there wouldn't be internal dissention afterwards. But Redskins drafts from 1984-1999 were systematically putrid, the reason the team aged out and fell apart starting in 1992-1993, was because we pulled next to nothing out of the draft from 1984-1993, the reason we stayed ---- after that was that Casserly went 0 for a decade from 1989-1998. Simple as that. Beathard was a great edge guy with trades, signings, and finaglings, and even had a couple of good drafts in the very early eighties, but after that, it was mostly miss rather than hit, other than the trades (Schreoder for Lachey for instance), USFL guys, and the strike b team. 

5 hours ago, DiscoBob said:

If our new FO drafts a QB top 5, what could we get for Howell in a trade? Am I crazy to think there might be a team that would give us a late 1st?

Yes. 

 

Day 3 pick, very outside chance of late day 2 pick, but I'd say a like 10-15% chance of that. He's a 5th rounder that's looked borderline competent, the metrics say he's generally bottom 3rd, but periodically has some big time throws in him and, he has a few bits of data showing him in the top 1/2 to top 1/3 of league in a handful of areas (in most he's in the late teens to about 24th, with a few bottom of the barrel stats). In addition to all that bad news, he doesn't have a 5th year option, so if you acquire him, you have to pay him or move on after just two years. 

[Panninho]

It sucks that CJ Stroud got injured, love to watch that dude play. But if he misses next week, the Titans would face the Texans without Stroud and Dell. That would be a winnable game for them and potentially take them out of the equation if we really lose out. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Panninho

[Est.1974]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

lol you are intense on this position including if I recall correctly being willing to help the Giants solve their QB issues and trade them Maye if we pick 2nd.

 

If so Maye would put a big circle next to his 2 matches a season versus this team.

 

I am Ok with trading down. But as Keim said in his podcast today multiple options can be argued for so it will be an interesting off season.

 

I am OK with trading down. I am good with taking Marvin Harrison. I am good with taking Fashanu.  I am good with taking Daniels or Maye. I can argue for any scenario for different reasons

Similar stance for me.

 

No doubt there will be a temptation to acquire more picks if we wind up with a high value top 4 pick. Wildcard scenario could be if we trade a player like Jon Allen for say a 2 & 4, that may lessen to temptation trade back and lead to us staying put to take the stud on offer.

[markmills67]

3 hours ago, Panninho said:

It sucks that CJ Stroud got injured, love to watch that dude play. But if he misses next week, the Titans would face the Texans without Stroud and Dell. That would be a winnable game for them and potentially take them out of the equation if we really lose out. 

Good post buddy, I was worried about the Titans losing rest of there games. But hopefully a win next week should keep them out of top 5 picks.

[DWinzit]

4 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

He was a total disaster, he went 0 for the nineties until 1999. You can't blow an entire decade of drafts and be a quality GM. Hell even Cerrato had a better term as GM in terms of the draft than Casserly had in the nineties, and it's worth noting, other than the patently obvious in 1999, the best "athlete" in the draft, Champ Bailey, and the best OL available at the top of round 2, what did he actually accomplish? He wasted a top 65 pick on Lloyd Harrison, and blew every single other pick in that class just like he did the decade worth of picks preceeding it. I can't believe anyone anywhere thinks Casserly deserved anything. He had a decade to play with. Why do people think we sucked in nineties? Norv Turner could only ---- up so much, he needed Casserly's help to ensure they couldn't dig their way out of that hole (I'll give Casserly this much: supposedly he preferred Dilfer to mega bust Shulder, and Joey Galloway to mega bust Michael Westbunk). I'm stunned anyone could defend him (not you, who you're responding too). I will add that Beatherd was utterly horrific with our drafts after 1982 and 1983. The seeds of the failure of the 1990's were laid with horrendous drafts from 1985-1988 with Beathard. The only good thing I can say about his second half of the eighties is that he #1 did a great job of peeling off supplemental USFL talent with later picks in those dispersal drafts (he wasn't picking all that high, but managed to finagle guys like Clark, Sanders and Kelvin Bryant via picks and trades), and he and Casserly did a good job building the strike team in '87 while keeping the team unified so there wouldn't be internal dissention afterwards. But Redskins drafts from 1984-1999 were systematically putrid, the reason the team aged out and fell apart starting in 1992-1993, was because we pulled next to nothing out of the draft from 1984-1993, the reason we stayed ---- after that was that Casserly went 0 for a decade from 1989-1998. Simple as that. Beathard was a great edge guy with trades, signings, and finaglings, and even had a couple of good drafts in the very early eighties, but after that, it was mostly miss rather than hit, other than the trades (Schreoder for Lachey for instance), USFL guys, and the strike b team. 

Good post on Casserly. If he could have hit on drafts in the early 90s it would have made a much better transition once Gibbs exited. We were strapped with giant cap hits and an ancient roster instead. Pettibone never had a chance, he was thrown to the wolves. 

4 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

Yes. 

 

Day 3 pick, very outside chance of late day 2 pick, but I'd say a like 10-15% chance of that. He's a 5th rounder that's looked borderline competent, the metrics say he's generally bottom 3rd, but periodically has some big time throws in him and, he has a few bits of data showing him in the top 1/2 to top 1/3 of league in a handful of areas (in most he's in the late teens to about 24th, with a few bottom of the barrel stats). In addition to all that bad news, he doesn't have a 5th year option, so if you acquire him, you have to pay him or move on after just two years. 

I see Howell as a more valuable asset. He has stayed healthy even though taking a beating over the season. He has at least most of the tools you seek in a QB and put the horribly coached team with a below average OL on his back through many of the games.

 

He has been brutalized over the season. Yes some of that is his fault but I'd love to see him actually given a shot to feel comfortable in the pocket for a few games. I figure there are other teams that see Howell similarly and would be willing to give more that a day 3 pick. 

 

The most interesting parts of the coming year will be the hiring of a GM, than the HC, then the decision on Howell and hand in hand a possible QB in the draft,