2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Chump Bailey]

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Or maybe we find a super blue chip LG in an early round of the draft, who can come in and make an immediate impact.

 

Ohio State's Donovan Jackson says hello

[Koolblue13]

28 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

Ohio State's Donovan Jackson says hello

Hi Don.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[skinzplay]

Sucking up to teacher, it seems.

[KDawg]

34 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Sucking up to teacher, it seems.

It’s probably more that teacher told him this data point and he echoed it.

[skinzplay]

Probably right, Hoss. Wouldn't doubt that either!

[moondog]

I’m all for the joint practices but that also just kinda sounds dumb. Like logically, how do two practices actually have a tangible result on injuries throughout an 18 week season? Just because two things may statistically have a relationship does not mean there is causality. 

[oraphus]

10 minutes ago, moondog said:

I’m all for the joint practices but that also just kinda sounds dumb. Like logically, how do two practices actually have a tangible result on injuries throughout an 18 week season? Just because two things may statistically have a relationship does not mean there is causality. 

"The analytics provided by the NFL have shown that the injury rate for teams decreases in the first five weeks of the regular season. "  https://www.commanders.com/news/training-camp-notebook-day-14-commanders-prepare-for-joint-practices-with-baltim

 

[moondog]

11 minutes ago, oraphus said:

"The analytics provided by the NFL have shown that the injury rate for teams decreases in the first five weeks of the regular season. "  https://www.commanders.com/news/training-camp-notebook-day-14-commanders-prepare-for-joint-practices-with-baltim

 

My point still stands - two practices against another team doesn’t tell me there is causality behind it. 
 

Keep in mind I am ecstatic we are doing the joint practices and I think it is a massive amount of value added. I’m just having a hard time seeing how two practices this week has any meaningful effect on injuries 1.5 months from now. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[HigSkin]

3 hours ago, MartinC said:

Oh 100% we will have a 3rd QB on the practice squad. I just don’t think it should be Fromm. 

 

I'm with you for sure about Fromm but FWIW, there is that new rule they passed in May because of what happened to SF last year.  They could actually do both (PS and active roster) to get a new QB up to speed.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10076912-nfl-passes-rule-change-to-allow-3rd-active-qb-without-using-roster-spot#:~:text=NFL Passes Rule Change to Allow 3rd Active QB Without Using Roster Spot,-Timothy Rapp%40%40&text=San Francisco 49ers fans%2C rejoice,without losing a roster spot.

 

The NFL passed a rule change on Monday at the spring meetings that will allow teams to carry an emergency third quarterback on the active roster without losing a roster spot.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by HigSkin

[MartinC]

5 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

I'm with you for sure about Fromm but FWIW, there is that new rule they passed in May because of what happened to SF last year.  They could actually do both (PS and active roster) to get a new QB up to speed.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10076912-nfl-passes-rule-change-to-allow-3rd-active-qb-without-using-roster-spot#:~:text=NFL Passes Rule Change to Allow 3rd Active QB Without Using Roster Spot,-Timothy Rapp%40%40&text=San Francisco 49ers fans%2C rejoice,without losing a roster spot.

 

The NFL passed a rule change on Monday at the spring meetings that will allow teams to carry an emergency third quarterback on the active roster without losing a roster spot.

 

 

But I think that emergency QB has to be on the 53. Just not on the game day active roster?

[HigSkin]

18 minutes ago, MartinC said:

But I think that emergency QB has to be on the 53. Just not on the game day active roster?

 

Yep, a team can have 47 dressed vs normal 46 for game day with that 3rd QB designation.  I see what you're saying because we really don't have a guy like DTR for example that wouldn't make it to the PS, still takes a roster spot.

[mhd24]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

We were all Dawaand fans pre-draft.  However, that dude just had the worst pre-draft process I can remember.  Up and quits after 1 day at the senior bowl.  Then has horrific interviews at the combine.  Subsequently he has an all-time awful pro-day at OSU according to every draft insider (See Tony Pauline, etc).  Then, despite all these negatives, we still are interested and he proceeds to cancel our top 30 visit.  If you were in our shoes, are you drafting him still?  The whole NFL didn't for solid reasons until Cleveland gave him a shot.  We obviously liked Stromberg, and I have no issues taking him over Wypler or Jones.  Dawaand was way too unpredictable to waste a relatively early pick on.  

[Going Commando]

10 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

We were all Dawaand fans pre-draft.  However, that dude just had the worst pre-draft process I can remember.  Up and quits after 1 day at the senior bowl.  Then has horrific interviews at the combine.  Subsequently he has an all-time awful pro-day at OSU according to every draft insider (See Tony Pauline, etc).  Then, despite all these negatives, we still are interested and he proceeds to cancel our top 30 visit.  If you were in our shoes, are you drafting him still?  The whole NFL didn't for solid reasons until Cleveland gave him a shot.  We obviously liked Stromberg, and I have no issues taking him over Wypler or Jones.  Dawaand was way too unpredictable to waste a relatively early pick on.  

 

I want to know the real reason he canceled that Top 30 visit, not that bull**** about us already having a RT.  I want to know if he was specifically telling us not to draft him.

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

We were all Dawaand fans pre-draft.  However, that dude just had the worst pre-draft process I can remember.  Up and quits after 1 day at the senior bowl.  Then has horrific interviews at the combine.  Subsequently he has an all-time awful pro-day at OSU according to every draft insider (See Tony Pauline, etc).  Then, despite all these negatives, we still are interested and he proceeds to cancel our top 30 visit.  If you were in our shoes, are you drafting him still?  The whole NFL didn't for solid reasons until Cleveland gave him a shot.  We obviously liked Stromberg, and I have no issues taking him over Wypler or Jones.  Dawaand was way too unpredictable to waste a relatively early pick on.  

 

the subject's been covered here plenty.  Cliff notes.

 

A.  They met with him multipe times.  He didn't want to do the last pro day -- came out he didn't think they were serious about drafting him because Wylle was in the fold

 

B.  I know about Dawand's issues I was the primary person who posted on them on that thread starting from the Senior Bowl.

 

C.   A late third which is practically a 4th round pick, isn't that early.  It's worth a gamble then IMO

 

D.  Callahan who took Dawand, was willing to roll the dice.  He's built a good O line with the Browns.  He built a good line previously in Washington.  Rivera dismantled that O line and IMO did a poor job rebuilding it.  He is likely IMO going to lose his job in 2024 partly for that reason.

 

10 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I want to know the real reason he canceled that Top 30 visit, not that bull**** about us already having a RT.  I want to know if he was specifically telling us not to draft him.

 

I posted about it at the time on the draft thread. Somewhere by someone it was said.  I don't recall, I'd have to find the post.  There was no push back about it on that thread then.  

 

It's bull*** to you at times it doesn't fit your opinion.  For example you don't believe Hoffman who was close to O'Connell that he wasn't into Haskins and that was part of the soup of why he left and Rivera didn't retain him.

 

i just say what's said.  I didn't want Logan Paulsen to suggest a scout he knows had concerns with Dawand's personality.  But it was said. So I repeated.  It didn't fit my opinion about wanting him at the time, that's fine.  Good stuff, bad stuff whether it fits neatly into my opinion, I don't give a rats behind.  I'll post it.

 

I liked them drafting Ricky Stromberg for example.  Keim said they want Stromberg to get stronger.  I could just keep it to myself and not post it here.  But I post it.  My opinions don't shape what I post here as to information regardless if it fits my preconceptions or not.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

ok now I’m convinced that the people who say that Rivera doesn’t know what analytics actually are, are correct. Happy for him that he’s just blissfully living his truth though, good for him 

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

the subject's been covered here plenty.  Cliff notes.

 

A.  They met with him multipe times.  He didn't want to do the last pro day -- came out he didn't think they were serious about drafting him because Wylle was in the fold

 

B.  I know about Dawand's issues I was the primary person who posted on them on that thread starting from the Senior Bowl.

 

C.   A late third which is practically a 4th round pick, isn't that early.  It's worth a gamble then IMO

 

D.  Callahan who took Dawand, was willing to roll the dice.  He's built a good O line with the Browns.  He built a good line previously in Washington.  Rivera dismantled that O line and IMO did a poor job rebuilding it.  He is likely IMO going to lose his job in 2024 partly for that reason.

 

 

 

That makes no sense.  He was perfectly fine going to Cleveland with Jack Conklin & Wills entrenched as the tackles?  He didn't think we were serious about taking a tackle despite our reported obvious interest in Darnell Wright?  That Wylie could hav easily slotted into LG opening up a spot at RT?

 

Here is an article about Jones:  

https://www.brownsnation.com/analyst-clears-the-air-about-why-dawand-jones-fell-in-draft/

 

"failing to answer questions about his weight, and literally telling teams that he never dreamed of playing in the NFL.  Apparently, Jones told teams that he actually wanted to play in the NBA, which obviously was a major red flag for NFL franchises.  Nonetheless, some teams reportedly wonder whether he has the drive, desire, mindset, and work ethic to actually live up to that physicality, strength, and athleticism"

 

Cooley said during his career he knew the guys who didn't love football.  If a potential draftee is exhibiting these traits, you can't seriously consider taking him.  David Emerson busted here because he loved video games more than studying as an example.  Trent Brown busted in Vegas after signing a huge deal because he stopped caring and gained so much weight.  I couldn't justify taking Dawaand with a pick before the 4th due to the behavior he exhibited.  Maybe they were thinking of taking him in the 4th, but he got picked up.  

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

That makes no sense.  He was perfectly fine going to Cleveland with Jack Conklin & Wills entrenched as the tackles?  He didn't think we were serious about taking a tackle despite our reported obvious interest in Darnell Wright?  That Wylie could hav easily slotted into LG opening up a spot at RT?

 

Here is an article about Jones:  

https://www.brownsnation.com/analyst-clears-the-air-about-why-dawand-jones-fell-in-draft/

 

"failing to answer questions about his weight, and literally telling teams that he never dreamed of playing in the NFL.  Apparently, Jones told teams that he actually wanted to play in the NBA, which obviously was a major red flag for NFL franchises.  Nonetheless, some teams reportedly wonder whether he has the drive, desire, mindset, and work ethic to actually live up to that physicality, strength, and athleticism"

 

Cooley said during his career he knew the guys who didn't love football.  If a potential draftee is exhibiting these traits, you can't seriously consider taking him.  David Emerson busted here because he loved video games more than studying as an example.  Trent Brown busted in Vegas after signing a huge deal because he stopped caring and gained so much weight.  I couldn't justify taking Dawaand with a pick before the 4th due to the behavior he exhibited.  Maybe they were thinking of taking him in the 4th, but he got picked up.  

 

I posted most of the gossip stuff on Dawand including the basketball part.  I've dived very deep into all the extra circular stuff with Dawand.   

 

If you think it makes no sense.  And you know better.  It's cool.  Lets not waste each others time.    I didn't make anything up.  No one challenged the post at the time.  But I don't care if you or anyone else doesn't believe it.  That's up to you. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Conn said:

ok now I’m convinced that the people who say that Rivera doesn’t know what analytics actually are, are correct. Happy for him that he’s just blissfully living his truth though, good for him 

 

Two different reporters were pretty hardcore about it based on the conversations.  I recall Fortier was one of them.

 

I should probably keep a notebook on this stuff though.  2 months from now I'll likely forget the details.  And there will be a narrrative that its BS and its either made up or not true.   I need to be ready for that. 

 

I like Rivera as a dude.   I wish him well on his endeavors which will likely be elsewhere in 2024.  

 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I posted most of the stuff on Dawand including the basketball part.  I've dived very deep into all the extra circular stuff with Dawand.   

 

If you think it makes no sense.  And you know better.  It's cool.  Lets not waste each others time.    I didn't make anything up.  No one challenged the post at the time.  But I don't care if you or anyone else doesn't believe it.  That's up to you. 

I wasn’t challenging you SIP.  I was referring to Dawaand’s mindset.  Sorry for the mix up in words.  I was posting that it makes no sense according to Dawaand not wanting to come here but then be happy in Cleveland where he’ll likely never play if there are no injuries.  Like why would he not want to come here?  There had to be something else as to why he didn’t want to come here.  Maybe he didn’t like our coaches and/staff at the combine and isn’t saying it publicly.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

4 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 Maybe he didn’t like our coaches and/staff at the combine and isn’t saying it publicly.

Maybe because this dumb franchise hasn’t been relevant since the last time I died of dysentery playing Oregon Trail. 

[Hooper]

Jumping around preseason games, our offensive line has actually looked decent compared to some others. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I wasn’t challenging you SIP.  I was referring to Dawaand’s mindset.  Sorry for the mix up in words.  I was posting that it makes no sense according to Dawaand not wanting to come here but then be happy in Cleveland where he’ll likely never play if there are no injuries.  Like why would he not want to come here?  There had to be something else as to why he didn’t want to come here.  Maybe he didn’t like our coaches and/staff at the combine and isn’t saying it publicly.

 

Thanks. Got it.  OK sorry for for the edginess in my response.

 

It was set in the start of the discussion, not by you, about where all of a sudden a post from months back on the draft thread is now challenged.  If it was considered BS then, IMO call it out then.  But I feels like its now collapsed into a Rivera debate where there is some spin taking place.

 

I get it to an extent I spent 3 years spinning on behalf of Rivera.  But as for my posting as for what reporters say, draft gossip, etc -- I try not to let my opinions impinge on what I post as to reports-gossip.  If it flies with my opinion or against them, it doesn't matter.  I just share. 

 

I post so much of this stuff, that its impossible for me to remember months later, the sources of everything.  But I do recall typically what's challenged or not.

 

As for Dawand, the vibe I got is he's possibly manic depressant.  Paulsen said during the Senior Bowl he heard he's very moody.  The basketball part was a narrative, too.  I know this team met with him if I recall at least 3 times.    it's possible that he thought that he gave them enough time, did he need to do it a 4th time? -- again supposedly he's a moody dude.

 

I wouldn't have taken him in the first two rounds.  He's a risk for sure.  But considering this O line might not be hot IMHO he was worth the risk at the end of the third.  If this O line was good, I wouldn't care.  But the idea that the Browns of all teams took him, got my attention considering Callahan was here.  And Callahan did a better job with this O line than Rivera so I trust his gut over Ron.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

35 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

 

That makes no sense.  He was perfectly fine going to Cleveland with Jack Conklin & Wills entrenched as the tackles?  He didn't think we were serious about taking a tackle despite our reported obvious interest in Darnell Wright?  That Wylie could hav easily slotted into LG opening up a spot at RT?

 

Here is an article about Jones:  

https://www.brownsnation.com/analyst-clears-the-air-about-why-dawand-jones-fell-in-draft/

 

"failing to answer questions about his weight, and literally telling teams that he never dreamed of playing in the NFL.  Apparently, Jones told teams that he actually wanted to play in the NBA, which obviously was a major red flag for NFL franchises.  Nonetheless, some teams reportedly wonder whether he has the drive, desire, mindset, and work ethic to actually live up to that physicality, strength, and athleticism"

 

Cooley said during his career he knew the guys who didn't love football.  If a potential draftee is exhibiting these traits, you can't seriously consider taking him.  David Emerson busted here because he loved video games more than studying as an example.  Trent Brown busted in Vegas after signing a huge deal because he stopped caring and gained so much weight.  I couldn't justify taking Dawaand with a pick before the 4th due to the behavior he exhibited.  Maybe they were thinking of taking him in the 4th, but he got picked up.  

Jones saying he wanted to be an NBA guy would have no bearing on if I drafted him or not. Breaking news: he isn’t going to be an NBA guy.

 

Kyler Murray, who was drafted first overall in baseball, would concern me if he said he wanted to play baseball more.