2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

It starts with a lack of overall talent.

 

If you look at our line, and assigned "ratings" like this was Madden to our line it would look something like this for me:

 

Leno 80

Charles 65

Gates 68

Cosmi 77

Wylie 72

 

Paul 67

Lucas 72

 

 

ect.

 

Puts our OL at a 72 overall talent wise. Roughly. That is a C-.

 

And that's not counting if we have to use our depth. And since Cosmi is routinely injured, may as well sub both Paul and Charles in for now. 

 

 

I have no idea in terms of individual grades, but your aggregate matches exactly how I view the line -

1) not much drop off if Wylie, Charles (or Paul, if he starts) or Gates go down (I’d assume Larsen has a relatively similar grade).

2) big issue if (oft-injured) Cosmi is hurt.

3) pretty clear downgrade if Leno misses time.

4) adding (or, maybe less likely, in-house development of) a guard in that C grade range would make me feel a bit better.  Still would be a lackluster/average-ish group, but the drop off from Cosmi would be mitigated at least.

 

 

Edit:  I will say that from the jump, I thought if Wylie is a better G than T, it’s possible an injury to Cosmi could be papered over a bit with Wylie moving inside and Lucas stepping in at tackle.

Edited August 4, 2023 by skinny21

[MartinC]

34 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Here's Peyton's exact words in an interview on Mad Dog Sports radio.

 

 

 

but he doesn't say which potential bidder reached out. Keim was very clear it wasn't Harris - he might be wrong but he's pretty connected. 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

he's pretty connected. 

to Harris?

[Skinsinparadise]

Caught up with Nicky J from the Washington Post on 106.7.  And Phillips on Galdi.

 

Both asked the same question, bigger concern QB or O line?

 

Both with the same answer O line.  Phillips was really down on the O line.  Nicki didn't elaborate.

 

But i liked that both thought Howell has a shot.

 

We can fix the O line next year.  QB as we know is a much harder task.  In short, I'd take an 8-9 season if Howell looks like he's the goods.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

 

but he doesn't say which potential bidder reached out. Keim was very clear it wasn't Harris - he might be wrong but he's pretty connected. 

If he was wrong, he was lied to, or (very unlikely) he's doing the bidding of the new ownership group.  

 

Honestly, it doesn't really seem like the move Harris would make anyway.  And given they really didn't know when they were going to get the team, I kdinof think they're smarter than going out and talking to coaches, because they know that can (and in this case, did) get out.

 

I think a lot of y'all just gotta cool your jets.  It's pretty clear nothing is changing at all until either at some point in the season or after it.  Until then, Ron is going to have Harris' support.

If the team wins and looks good doing so, that support can continue. If they don't win and don't look good, it won't.

 

One thing to remember: this is essentially the last year of Ron's contract.  I get that he's got one more year left, but it benefits nobody for him to go into year 5 as a lame duck coach.  So, either he is extended or fired at the end of the season, or even before then.

 

I'd be willing to bet all the money in my left front pocket Ron has contractual full control of football operations.  There is no way he would sign a contract with Dan unless he had that authority written down.  That means Harris CAN'T do anything without Ron's blessing or firing Ron until there is a new deal in place. 

 

So, in the event the team exceeds expectations Josh wants to bring Ron back, and Ron wants to come back, there would almost certainly be a very different power structure which would be built into the negotiation of the new contract.  I don't think Josh wants a "coach centric approach" with the GM working for the coach.  I think that would change.  I think the structure of the FO will change, and some of the existing players will exit stage left.  All of that would be worked out in a renegotiated extension, if it came to that.  

 

But all of that is for later.  Right now, it's Ron's team.  

 

The most likely scenario is still the team finishes 9-8, misses the playoffs by a game, Josh thanks Ron profusely and fires him mercilessly to bring in a new group of folks.  But that's a January conversation, not an August conversation.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

We can fix the O line next year.  QB as we know is a much harder task.  In short, I'd take an 8-9 season if Howell looks like he's the goods.

I'd still like to see them play 1 game with a game plan against and opponent before concluding we need to "fix" the OL next season.

 

They might.  I'd just really like to see them suck first before determining they suck. Against another team.  In a real game.  With a gameplan.  

 

Also, I'd like to see Howell not suck in a game with a game-plan against a real opponent to pass judgement on him as well.

 

I have the same opinion of both: I have absolutely no idea if either or both are going to suck or not.  

 

I am going to the Arizona game, though.  I'm very much looking forward to seeing what they can do in a "live" scenario, and actually with my own eyes.  And celebrating my Birthday.  I wonder, do they have cake at the stadium?  I think I need a cake....  Maybe a cupcake?   

[MartinC]

21 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

to Harris?

Within the team. I get what you are saying but he’s careful with what he says and he was a hard ‘didn’t happen’ when he answered the fan question. 

[ExoDus84]

What I'm taking from today's practice is that we have a fantastic, stout defense, and a suspect offense that will struggle to score points.

 

So basically, we're the 2000 Ravens...

 

SUPER BOWL OR BUST BABY!

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If he was wrong, he was lied to, or (very unlikely) he's doing the bidding of the new ownership group.  

 

 

Keim is awesome.  But looking it is from Harris' point of view if he did talk to Payton, I'd lie about it.  No way you could have that story out there like that.  When I talk to the media, I tell them the truth off the record but on rare occasion I have to lie. 

 

But whether he talked to Payton or not, it has zero influence on my thought that Rivera has to win to save his job.

 

15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I'd be willing to bet all the money in my left front pocket Ron has contractual full control of football operations.  There is no way he would sign a contract with Dan unless he had that authority written down.  That means Harris CAN'T do anything without Ron's blessing or firing Ron until there is a new deal in place. 

 

 

That's going to be the most interesting dynamic if Ron has a good season.  Would Harris want him to retain full control?  I doubt it.  He's been in the record of aiming high for a GM and then letting that GM call the shots.  

 

15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

I think a lot of y'all just gotta cool your jets.  It's pretty clear nothing is changing at all until either at some point in the season or after it.  Until then, Ron is going to have Harris' support.

If the team wins and looks good doing so, that support can continue. If they don't win and don't look good, it won't.

 

 

Who needs to cool their jets?  Who is expecting something to happen now? 

 

15 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

The most likely scenario is still the team finishes 9-8, misses the playoffs by a game, Josh thanks Ron profusely and fires him mercilessly to bring in a new group of folks.  But that's a January conversation, not an August conversation.  

 

So you are down from your 10-7 prediction? I guess some of us got you to knock off a game.  . Now our predictions are pretty close.  I got them at 8-9. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Riggo#44]

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

I figured you were into that kinky **** but I didn't peg you for necrophilia.

Never been married, have you?

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'd still like to see them play 1 game with a game plan against and opponent before concluding we need to "fix" the OL next season.

 

They might.  I'd just really like to see them suck first before determining they suck. Against another team.  In a real game.  With a gameplan.  

 

Also, I'd like to see Howell not suck in a game with a game-plan against a real opponent to pass judgement on him as well.

 

I have the same opinion of both: I have absolutely no idea if either or both are going to suck or not.  

 

 

You seem stuck on repeating that a prediction-opinion isn't a fact as if it a hard stance because people here otherwise don't know that?  

 

13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I am going to the Arizona game, though.  I'm very much looking forward to seeing what they can do in a "live" scenario, and actually with my own eyes.  And celebrating my Birthday.  I wonder, do they have cake at the stadium?  I think I need a cake....  Maybe a cupcake?   

 

Maybe Bram and Galdi (being big fans of both) would bring you one, if you let them know its your birthday?  

 

I might go to that game, too.  But for sure I am going to the game after that -- Denver. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[RVAskins]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

During 11-on-11, the offense continued to flail against the first-team defense. The unit struggled to run the ball, and though quarterback Sam Howell made some gorgeous throws, they were infrequent and often took a beat or two too long, prompting a defender to holler, “That’s a sack anyway!” On Tuesday, Rivera switched things up so the offense faced the second-team defense.

After one play, linebacker Khaleke Hudson, who has impressed, seemed to take exception to a block on the perimeter by center Nick Gates. Hudson shoved Gates, who pushed Hudson’s helmet, and middle linebacker Cody Barton threw a punch. The fight broke up quickly.

 

“The defense came out strong,” Mathis said approvingly. “We played physical.”

 

There were times the players seemed to cross the line for Rivera. During one 11-on-11 play, tight end John Bates dropped a pass, and Young and defensive end Montez Sweat laughed. Young yelled, “He can’t catch!” Rivera walked over to talk with them, and afterward, it appeared as if they stopped insulting teammates.

 

At the end of one 11-on-11 drive, the team brought on Joey Slye for a longer field goal attempt. Young stood behind him and applied pressure: “Got to win the game right now! Got to win the game right now! Crowd going crazy!”

The ball didn’t get there. Long snapper Camaron Cheeseman skidded it low in front of punter/holder Tress Way. The crowd groaned. Even though they tried again and Slye made the kick, that moment — even more than the hitting — was a reminder that the first football game that counts was less than six weeks away.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/08/03/commanders-padded-practice-trash-talk/

 

That was WP's take yesterday

Edited August 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Fresh8686]

I don't know why people are so depressed or whatever about Stromberg's camp. From what I've heard recently from Logan Paulson, he's been working with the 2's and the 3's, switching back and forth with Tyler Larsen. Larsen is physically stronger than him right and did a decent job for us when he started, but Stromberg is still pushing him. Give the kid some time to get stronger.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

I don't know why people are so depressed or whatever about Stromberg's camp. From what I've heard recently from Logan Paulson, he's been working with the 2's and the 3's, switching back and forth with Tyler Larsen. Larsen is physically stronger than him right and did a decent job for us when he started, but Stromberg is still pushing him. Give the kid some time to get stronger.

 

 

 

 

Not sure who was depressed about Stromberg's camp?  

 

Not that I am big on Brian Mitchell's observations but he came off liking what he saw from Stromberg, hinted not so much about Daniels.

 

There has been some hints that Daniels has had a down camp but Stromberg has been fine.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Not sure who was depressed about Stromberg's camp?  

 

Not that I am big on Brian Mitchell's observations but he came off liking what he saw from Stromberg, hinted not so much about Daniels.

 

There has been some hints that Daniels has had a down camp but Stromberg has been fine.

The Daniels pick was trash and then forced us to move up Henry, which was another head scratcher. 

 

Herbig and Mafi would have been the way that I went.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The Daniels pick was trash and then forced us to move up Henry, which was another head scratcher. 

 

Herbig and Mafi would have been the way that I went.

 

Yeah if I had to redo that draft, the 4th and 5th round would be an easy focus.

 

I would have gone Mauch over Martin in the 2nd.  But since both players made my short list of favorite players in the draft, I can't complain too much about the Martin pick.

 

But heck everything happens for a reason.  If the O line ends up sucking as some predict -- it likely leads to a higher draft pick and adds some urgency to fix that unit.  

 

Losing a battle to win the war.  The only reason why i am edgy about it is as some of the local media speculate will the revitalized romance for this team with the fans diminish if the season unfolds in the same old same old fashion?

Edited August 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Voice_of_Reason]

43 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

So you are down from your 10-7 prediction? I guess some of us got you to knock off a game.  . Now our predictions are pretty close.  I got them at 8-9

I still think 10-7. But acknowledge 9-8 a better odds, and 8-9 is better still.

 

Im going against the odds at 10-7.   

[philibusters]

I think John Keim said Stromberg looked relatively good for a newbie, just lacking the play strength.  Lacking play strength will leave you vulnerable to  power rush moves in pass pro on the plays when the offense isolates a defender on the center in a pass rush situation ( probably a minority of passrush snaps, on the majority usually the center starts off with a double team and breaks off if he sees any blitzers) and makes it hard to get a push on gap run plays when the center is one on one with a DT on a run play (more common, but even in the run, a center will be involved in a lot of double teams).   So Stromberg has to get stronger, but he is looking good.  That said his lack of play strength does make it harder for him to have position flex because as a guard he will be one on one with a DT a lot more both in the pass and run game.

[MartinC]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 Did he wink after he answered?

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I still think 10-7. But acknowledge 9-8 a better odds, and 8-9 is better still.

 

Im going against the odds at 10-7.   

 

By the time the season starts you'll be down to 7-10.

 

Feels like though your main prediction is you will guess the outcome of these games better AFTER the games are over versus those of us guessing before the games.  You've made variations of that same point multiple times. 😎

12 minutes ago, philibusters said:

I think John Keim said Stromberg looked relatively good for a newbie, just lacking the play strength.  Lacking play strength will leave you vulnerable to  power rush moves in pass pro on the plays when the offense isolates a defender on the center in a pass rush situation ( probably a minority of passrush snaps, on the majority usually the center starts off with a double team and breaks off if he sees any blitzers) and makes it hard to get a push on gap run plays when the center is one on one with a DT on a run play (more common, but even in the run, a center will be involved in a lot of double teams).   So Stromberg has to get stronger, but he is looking good.  That said his lack of play strength does make it harder for him to have position flex because as a guard he will be one on one with a DT a lot more both in the pass and run game.

 

Keim also Stromberg has played with the 1's, 2's and 3's.  He said they seem him a pure center and not a center-guard.  I agree with that but I got no issue with that.  to me Stromberg is a center not a guard. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[SkinsFTW]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The most likely scenario is still the team finishes 9-8, misses the playoffs by a game, Josh thanks Ron profusely and fires him mercilessly to bring in a new group of folks.  But that's a January conversation, not an August conversation.  

 

The most likely scenario is winning more games than they have in any season for almost a decade? 

 

Some around here are very likely in for a rude awakening, IMO.

 

I also like how numerous posters the past several pages have stated something like "Well Ron isn't an idiot" and then went on to list some things that make you reconsider the possibility since this is actually YEAR 4 of his running absolutely everything involving the actual football team. The dude has 3 winning seasons in 12. Even Jeff Fisher had 6 in 12 while seasons coaching the Titans.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

14 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 Did he wink after he answered?

I hope so. 😆

 

But I will say that I don’t understand why some fans can’t understand the concept of coach speak. We still have fans that swear Shanny would’ve staked his reputation on John Beck. 
 

[MartinC]

10 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I hope so. 😆

 

But I will say that I don’t understand why some fans can’t understand the concept of coach speak. We still have fans that swear Shanny would’ve staked his reputation on John Beck. 
 

Yeah - in my defense I was joking.

You’re right that he was unlikely to say ‘Our depth sucks and we are in huge trouble if we get an injury’. But he could have said something like ‘We are always looking for ways to get better and improve the roster - I like the guys we have but if someone becomes available that we think improves us we would obviously look at that’.