2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[MartinC]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get it.

 

My frustration will be if this O line sucks again.  Juxtapose the point with the Browns already have a really good O line so the richer gets richer -- maybe.

 

I can in a vacuum justify almost everything Ron has done on the O line if we break down every decision.  But on the aggregate its just one miss after another even if there is a proper explanation for everything that ends in a swing and a miss.

 

It will be like me back when I had a boss (before running my own business) if I didn't get the job done the boss isn't going to care about the nuts and bolts about how it added up for me not to get the job done.

 

 

You know I broadly agree - I just don’t think Jones is an example of someone we overlooked in the process.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Ron is not an idiot, but the game has clearly passed him by. Outside of some kind of absurd fantasy season, I expect the house to be cleaned out after this year when a new GM is brought in. Ron knows this is his last season as a HC.

 

At the time of the hire, Ron in the FO was basically replacing the worst GM in the history of sports -- that is, Dan.

 

So I was OK with the coach centric model in that context.

 

But now that the village idiot is gone and living in London, we can dream bigger.

 

I don't think Ron is an idiot either.  But I do think there is a chess element to building a roster and that's not his wheel house.  And he has an odd lack of urgency in his approach.  As Randy Mueller, the ex-GM said (who really digs Ron the dude), Ron acts with no urgency as if he has all the job security in the world and is on a ten year plan.

[Hooper]

Yep, odds are Harris is going to clean house. It's the smart move. Ron knows this. Guess he's rolling the dice that EB and Howell will surprise and Harris will stick with it. 

 

They better look at least decent in week 1. If not, expect a lot of stories about how Harris put out feelers to Sean Payton, something we have all forgot.

[LetMeSeeYourWarFace21]

Put Forbes on ice until the Arizona game........

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, MartinC said:

You know I broadly agree - I just don’t think Jones is an example of someone we overlooked in the process.

 

They met with him a lot, I recall posting about all the interest.  i was even a bit surprised when I saw they wanted him to come for a visit, too.  If I recall they already met him in 3 different settings before that.

 

Dawand who according to some is a emotional-tempermental dude (Logan Paulson commented on that after the Senior Bowl) I gather wondered if he was wasting his time and he already gave them plenty of time previously.  Does that make it right from Dawand?  Nope.  But like @KDawg said he'd have no choice.  if he were drafted, he'd adjust and learn perhaps that he'd get the RT job and Wylie would be moved to guard. 

 

Would I have taken Dawand after the baggage came out?  I got no idea.  I don't know all the back and forth.  I wouldn't have taken him early for sure.  But in the 4th when the risk is mitigated?  I think I would.  The kicker for me is Callahan is a no nonsense coach and he crafts good o lines typically.  I do trust his instincts over Ron's on a player.

 

Dawand could end up a bust.  But for a team that I think is starving for talent on the O line let alone borderline elite talent -- Dawand I think was worth the risk.  lol, especially juxtaposed with the narrative about Braeden Daniels camp where Brian Mitchell said the other day he's not even sure he makes the roster.  Keim thinks he will because of his draft status.

 

Ron just hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt with me on the O line.  Maybe i'll be singing a different tune at the end of the season.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

28 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

Does the O-line issue start with Gates? and then Wylie?  Howell/Gates  not calling proper protection? I mean Leno is fairly solid, Paul is big time potential and I haven't heard a lot about him getting beat up. Cosmi is our best guy, sooooo who's left?

It starts with a lack of overall talent.

 

If you look at our line, and assigned "ratings" like this was Madden to our line it would look something like this for me:

 

Leno 80

Charles 65

Gates 68

Cosmi 77

Wylie 72

 

Paul 67

Lucas 72

 

 

ect.

 

Puts our OL at a 72 overall talent wise. Roughly. That is a C-.

 

And that's not counting if we have to use our depth. And since Cosmi is routinely injured, may as well sub both Paul and Charles in for now. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Hooper said:

 expect a lot of stories about how Harris put out feelers to Sean Payton, something we have all forgot.

 

Sheehan keeps poking around that story.  I think eventually it comes out.

 

As I've said and Sheehan made a similar point, its hard to come up with a narrative where it was anyone but Harris.

[MartinC]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They met with him a lot, I recall posting about all the interest.  i was even a bit surprised when I saw they wanted him to come for a visit, too.  If I recall they already met him in 3 different settings before that.

 

Dawand who according to some is a emotional-tempermental dude (Logan Paulson commented on that after the Senior Bowl) I gather wondered if he was wasting his time and he already gave them plenty of time previously.  Does that make it right from Dawand?  Nope.  But like @KDawg said he'd have no choice.  if he were drafted, he'd adjust and learn perhaps that he'd get the RT job and Wylie would be moved to guard. 

 

Would I have taken Dawand after the baggage came out?  I got no idea.  I don't know all the back and forth.  I wouldn't have taken him early for sure.  But in the 4th when the risk is mitigated?  I think I would.  The kicker for me is Callahan is a no nonsense coach and he crafts good o lines typically.  I do trust his instincts over Ron's on a player.

 

Dawand could end up a bust.  But for a team that I think is starving for talent on the O line let alone borderline elite talent -- Dawand I think was worth the risk.  lol, especially juxtaposed with the narrative about Braeden Daniels camp where Brian Mitchell said the other day he's not even sure he makes the roster.  Keim thinks he will because of his draft status.

 

Ron just hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt with me on the O line.  Maybe i'll be singing a different tune at the end of the season.

Jones was picked pretty early 4th round - several picks before we had a selection (we took Daniels). Maybe we would have taken Jones if he was still on the board - no way to tell.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Sheehan keeps poking around that story.  I think eventually it comes out.

 

As I've said and Sheehan made a similar point, its hard to come up with a narrative where it was anyone but Harris.

 

That doesn't match how Harris operated when he bought his hockey or basketball team though.

[MartinC]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Sheehan keeps poking around that story.  I think eventually it comes out.

 

As I've said and Sheehan made a similar point, its hard to come up with a narrative where it was anyone but Harris.

John Keim said that didn’t happen - it was on one of his fan Q&A sessions. He said the Commanders were not the team that reached out to Payton. 

[Hooper]

Thing is PAYTON said it, right? 

 

I predicted it a while ago Kellen Moore would be our next HC.

 

Justin H is going to set records with him as OC. I still can't believe Jerry let fat boy dump him.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Hooper

[MartinC]

2 minutes ago, Hooper said:

Thing is PAYTON said it, right? 

 

I've not seen him quoted (which is not to say there is not a quote out there). Keim was very definitive though - just flat said it didn't happen.

[RVAskins]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As I've said and Sheehan made a similar point, its hard to come up with a narrative where it was anyone but Harris.

I don't know. There were a couple of other bidders plus that nutjob Brian Davis.

[LetThePointsSoar]

1 minute ago, RVAskins said:

I don't know. There were a couple of other bidders plus that nutjob Brian Davis.

 

How amusing would it be if it came out that it was Bezos, the swooper in buyer that never swooped? 

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, MartinC said:

John Keim said that didn’t happen - it was on one of his fan Q&A sessions. He said the Commanders were not the team that reached out to Payton. 

Round 2 - Mauch

Round 3 - Dawand

 

The hang up with Dawand was whatever the rest of the League was affected by. Which I can understand why we didn't take him. But we could have and for his talent the third round would have been an absolute bargain. 

[HigSkin]

Here's Peyton's exact words in an interview on Mad Dog Sports radio.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, formerly4skins said:

Chasing young tail and smoking joints?

No, Worse: 

 

Trying to convince me S. Luavao was good at football. 

 

Shudder.  

3 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

I have a feeling Kaz Allen and Mason Brooks won't clear waivers if we decide to practice squad them.  I'd cut Milne and keep Allen, at least for development.

People say this every year and then every year, anybody who they want on the practice squad gets to the practice squad.

 

I think Allen can win the punt returner job in preseason, possibly.  If he does, that will make it hard to keep Milne. I think Brooks will get to the practice squad if they want him to.  Here's the other thing: for him not to get to our PS, somebody else has to put him on their active roster.  Not many UDFA's get cut and signed to another team's active roster.  

3 hours ago, Chris 44 said:

Probably wrong thread to ask, but who will be carrying Commanders pre and post game shows? Or is that a thing of the past like Command Center no longer carried by NBC?

At the moment, nobody as far as I know.  I'm sure that's going to change.  My guess is it goes back to NBC eventually with the new ownership, but who knows.  It could be produced by the team and done on-line...

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

What's really silly is not addressing why and how EB stayed with KC all these years if he is just there to yell at people and is terrible at literally everything else to the point that its Andy Ried picking on the poor Redskins again. 

 

Like, why keep that dude around? For fun? Cause of his sun shiny personality? The NFL has never struck me as the type of organization to keep a guy around in a leadership position just as a charity case. Is that really what we are intimating? 

Yeah, I guess nepotism just doesn't exist in the NFL.

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

That doesn't match how Harris operated when he bought his hockey or basketball team though.

 

Not sure about that.  He's patient normally I agree but not always.

 

As much as I've defended Ron and thought he was perfect for Dan, I think he's a disaster for Harris for reasons I've stated too many times.

 

Judging by narratives about Harris and I've listened to and read a lot of them, Ron isn't Harris' typical profile executive to say the least.  Then you add this is the perfect time IMO to go for the gold with all the fans eyeballs on this team and Ron comes off with zero urgency about any of it. 

 

And heck I know i come off like a negative nellie on that point but I felt a little vindicated when a long time GM who actually likes Ron made the exact same point.

 

If I were in Harris shoes, and I had the off season, I'd have fired Ron.  But not of course this summer with the season upon us.  Right now, I'd bet they get along great.  Ron is a great guy so I'd bet it starts well.  But if the season goes south, I'd bet Harris already has replacements in mind -- dudes that are more up his alley.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/07/22/josh-harris-washington-commanders-fans/

On Josh Harris’s first day of business as owner of the NBA’s Philadelphia 76ers, the first sports team he purchased, he fired its general manager.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Y'all crazy if you think Harris isn't playing 4D chess with this franchise and it's future.

[Hooper]

23 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Here's Peyton's exact words in an interview on Mad Dog Sports radio.

 

 

Well there you go.

[Llevron]

7 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, I guess nepotism just doesn't exist in the NFL.

 

Obviously I would have thought of that before I wrote that post. And obviously I would admit if I didn't and that's a good point if I didn't. Who woudlnt have thought something like that through with the obvious examples all over the NFL before he posted something like I posted? 

 

I mean come on. Clearly I have a good response. 

 

(But yea. You are right. again. As usual) 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Llevron

[Hooper]

Ron would absolutely be gone had Harris got the team earlier. 

[Skinsinparadise]

51 minutes ago, MartinC said:

John Keim said that didn’t happen - it was on one of his fan Q&A sessions. He said the Commanders were not the team that reached out to Payton. 

 

Interesting.  Part of me is glad because I wouldn't want to give up a high pick for him.   If it were multiple prospective owners as Payton said reaching out to him then it would have had to be Steven A. and Fertitta.  That's a bit odd especially considering Steven A wasn't plugged into football.

 

I love Keim but I wonder if the Harris group lied to him because it would have been a disaster for that to get out.  If they told Keim yeah it was us, it would make the season uber strange with Rivera.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RVAskins]

We don't know which potential owner spoke to Payton but in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with doing your due diligence. They were going to spend a lot of money so you look at everything before pulling the trigger.

Edited August 4, 2023 by RVAskins