2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, redskinss said:

Enough with the giant pity party for Christ's sake.

We haven't even played one pre season game and 3 quarters of this board is acting like we've been eliminated from the playoffs because that's what they're predicting is going to happen.

It's almost as if they're trying to will it into existence so they can say, see I told ya so.

There are very legitimate concerns with the offensive line and quarterback and yes even the coach but for crying out loud could we please give them a chance to prove us wrong before we go judge jury and executioner. 

This place really is the mob sometimes and when one person lights a torch, like a moth to a flame the torches all start coming out. 

 

No pity party I think for most if not all of us with Dan out the door.

 

I don't think anyone here roots against this team.  Or cares that much about being "right" when the bullets are flying.  That is, during the games.   I've looked really smart as to predicting certain things and I've looked like an absolute fool on other items.  And i am sure it will happen again.  If anyone posts enough and takes enough takes it will happen both ways.  

 

We've all endured a crappy era to say the least and are still standing on this board, all of us.  So I think we can all say we root for good things.   I think everyone has a different angle for different reasons as for their takes on this roster. 

 

Speaking for myself, my edginess about what I don't like about this roster is actually driven by positivity.  I love so much of this roster.  I've touted it on different threads.  Guys like me and @Koolblue13 were pushing this roster probably harder than anyone leading into the off season. But both of us now are bit salty about how in our minds they didn't finish it.   And for me I think they likely blew a unique opportunity with the fan base being jacked up -- because wow if they had a playoff season, the timing would be perfect.  But I don't think Ron finished the roster so I think at some point this season Josh will have to work to regain fan momentum that gets lost.  But I hope I am wrong and big time I hope am wrong.

 

I spent a ton of money to fly up just to watch one practice because I wanted to see firsthand the fan buzz vibe about the season.   I am beyond jazzed about getting the fan base back.   And I got a lot of faith in Josh Harris.  I've been pushing him for months before he was even secured as our owner.  I am practically a positive propaganda machine for him on various threads and how everything is going to change for the better.

 

But tough for me to Larry Michael spin everything.  I do it probably too much as is as to the roster.  And I think it would be boring if we all just put positive spin on everything.  I've been down on Bruce and Dan and big time so but mostly positive on the roster over the years.

 

But in short, I am likely flying up for two home games at home and two on the road this season.  And when I am watching the games with my kids, I'll guarantee you if the O line blows up and they lose the game accordingly -- there will be no smile on my face where lets say I tell my son, yeah we travelled all the way to Denver, and they lost, but look I blasted S. Charles on a thread months back and he was a seive today so i can't wait to post about that. 😎   And I don't think i am that different than anyone else here.  But who knows?

Edited August 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RabidFan]

16 hours ago, Conn said:

Don’t hold back man, you might leave some people unsure of where you stand if you can’t be more clear 

Well with a name like Oraphus, the bad just drips out of him in all areas.

[redskinss]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

No pity party I think for most if not all of us with Dan out the door.

 

I don't think anyone here roots against this team.  Or cares that much about being "right" when the bullets or flying.  That is, during the games.   I've looked really smart as to predicting certain things and I've looked like an absolute fool on other items.  And i am sure it will happen again.  If anyone posts enough and takes enough takes it will happen both ways.  

 

We've all endured a crappy era to say the least and are still standing on this board, all of us.  So I think we can all say we root for good things.   I think everyone has a different angle for different reasons as for their takes on this roster. 

 

Speaking for myself, my edginess about what I don't like about this roster is actually driven by positivity.  I love so much of this roster.  I've touted it on different threads.  Guys like me and @Koolblue13 were pushing this roster probably harder than anyone leading into the off season. But both now are bit salty about how in our minds they didn't finish it.   And for me I think they likely blew a unique opportunity with the fan base being jacked up -- because wow if they had a playoff season, the timing would be perfect.  But I don't think Ron finished the roster so I think at some point this season Josh will have to work to regain fan momentum that gets lost.  But I hope I am wrong and big time I hope am wrong.

 

I spent a ton of money to fly up just to watch one practice because I wanted to see firsthand the fan buzz vibe about the season.   I am beyond jazzed about getting the fan base back.   And I get a lot of faith in Josh Harris.  I've been pushing him for months before he was even secured as our owner.  I am practically a positive propaganda machine for him on various threads and how everything is going to change for the better.

 

But tough for me to Larry Michael spin everything.  I do it probably too much as is as to the roster.  And I think it would be boring if we all just put positive spin on everything.  I've been down on Bruce and Dan and big time so but mostly positive on the roster over the years.

 

But in short, I am likely flying up for two home games at home and two on the road this season.  And when I am watching the games with my kids, I'll guarantee you if the O line blows up and they lose the game accordingly -- there will be no smile on my face where lets say I tell me son, yeah we travelled all the way to Denver, and they lost, but look I blasted S. Charles on a thread months back and he was a seive today so i can't wait to post about that. 😎   And I don't think i am that different than anyone else here.  But who knows?

Trust me sip it's not you I get frustrated by, and I agree it would be boring and also naive to just be positive about everything, I too have many reservations about this season.

There's just certain times and certain topics where it goes from pessimism to unwarranted and exaggerated negativity and then the mob takes over.

But it's part of being a diverse fanbase and I'll cope but I'll also say my piece when I think the doom and gloom is getting out of hand.

Edited August 3, 2023 by redskinss

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

Trust me sip it's not you I get frustrated by, and I agree it would be boring and also naive to just be positive about everything, I too have many reservations about this season.

There's just certain times and certain topics where it goes from pessimism to unwarranted and exaggerated negativity and then the mob takes over.

But it's part of being a diverse fanbase and I'll cope but I'll also say my peace when I think the doom and gloom is getting out of hand.

As a fan base we have been in an abusive relationship for years and we now just have trouble trusting. 
 

I’m pretty sure I heard that on one of the crappy ‘Housewives of …’ shows my wife insists on watching that apparently I get information from by osmosis. 
 

From these shows I also understand that the solution to these deep emotional problems is being bought a new Bentley, lots of diamonds and plastic surgery. 

[Conn]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

I am very happy Paul is getting more looks. I'd be happier if it was because he has outplayed Charles over Charles was injured. I healthy Charles is still going to be an asset to our team whether starter or backup.

If it makes you feel better Paul had already started earning some 1st team snaps before the injury 

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Trust me sip it's not you I get frustrated by, and I agree it would be boring and also naive to just be positive about everything, I too have many reservations about this season.

There's just certain times and certain topics where it goes from pessimism to unwarranted and exaggerated negativity and then the mob takes over.

But it's part of being a diverse fanbase and I'll cope but I'll also say my peace when I think the doom and gloom is getting out of hand.

 

Thanks.  Agree you should be able to say your peace about anything of course.

 

Speaking for myself, I am giddy on the aggregate.  I've hated Dan and what he's done to this team as much as anyone here.  Speaking of positivity, I recall me, @Conn and @BatteredFanSyndrome among others would get ridiculed by some in the FO thread last summer because we would say its indeed possible for Dan to be out the door.  That day could be coming.  And we wanted the pressure to ramp up.

 

On that thread, we were accused to being naive, pollyanas and some were outright edgy with us in that discussion.   Multiple people on that thread took the point further and also said its bad for this team whenever Dan would get trashed by the media considering we are stuck with him anyway so it serves no purpose.  And we should root for the bad PR to stop.  And we are a bit naive to not follow that point because of some fantasy that wasn't based on any realism.

 

So I do appreciate being positive in a storm of negativity especially thinking about it in that context.  I am usually in the crowd of why not playoffs?  Tough for me to do it this year.  But If I felt fired up or more positive about it, I'd push back like you are doing.  So i get it.  And I get the point about piling on.

 

But knowing at least some of the posting history of some of the people not high on Ron right now, they are positive about all that's happened big picture for this year.  To me the most important narrative by a mile is Dan being gone and the Josh Haris era is beginning. Heck one of the dudes pushing back at me on the O line who is more positive on it and more positive on Rivera -- comes off a bit negative about Harris.  And I've debated him on that.  So, I consider myself more positive than them about this team considering I don't see the future is Ron.  The future is clearly Harris.

 

But bringing this back to Ron.  Great dude.  Great job dealing with the crap storm under Dan.  But IMHO he let this new ownership down by not capitalizing on the amazing (even more than I expected) outpouring of love for this team with Dan leaving.  My angst started with Ron praising Dan and then the coupling that with a lack of urgency building the roster. 

 

As I mentoned before it feels like we are in the middle of the Karate Kid movie.  Johnny Lawrence and Kreese are now out of the way.  Daniel wins the tournament and has a clear shot to get Ally.  And instead he praises Kreese and doesn't chase Ally and the movie ends.   But getting past that, I think this team is in great hands so we are in good shape.  And I love that the fan base is back.  Fingers crossed that the season unfolds in a way to hold that momentum.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Thanks.  Agree you should be able to say your peace about anything of course.

 

Speaking for myself, I am giddy on the aggregate.  I've hated Dan and what he's done to this team as much as anyone here.  Speaking of positivity, I recall me, @Conn and @BatteredFanSyndrome among others would get ridiculed by some in the FO thread last summer because we would say its indeed possible for Dan to be out the door.  That day could be coming.  And we wanted the pressure to ramp up.

 

On that thread, we were accused to being naive, pollyanas and some were outright edgy with us in that discussion.   Multiple people on that thread took the point further and also said its bad for this team whenever Dan would get trashed by the media considering we are stuck with him anyway so it serves no purpose.  And we should root for the bad PR to stop.  And we are a bit naive to not follow that point because of some fantasy that wasn't based on any realism.

 

So I do appreciate being positive in a storm of negativity especially thinking about it in that context.  I am usually in the crowd of why not playoffs?  Tough for me to do it this year.  But If I felt fired up or more positive about it, I'd push back like you are doing.  So i get it.  And I get the point about piling on.

 

But knowing at least some of the posting history of some of the people not high on Ron right now, they are positive about all that's happened big picture for this year.  To me the most important narrative by a mile is Dan being gone and the Josh Haris era is beginning. Heck one of the dudes pushing back at me on the O line who is more positive on it and more positive on Rivera -- comes off a bit negative about Harris.  And I've debated him on that.  So, I consider myself more positive than them about this team considering I don't see the future is Ron.  The future is clearly Harris.

 

But bringing this back to Ron.  Great dude.  Great job dealing with the crap storm under Dan.  But IMHO he let this new ownership down by not capitalizing on the amazing (even more than I expected) outpouring of love for this team with Dan leaving.  My angst started with Ron praising Dan and then the coupling that with a lack of urgency building the roster. 

 

As I mentoned before it feels like we are in the middle of the Karate Kid movie.  Johnny Lawrence and Kreese are now out of the way.  Daniel wins the tournament and has a clear shot to get Ally.  And instead he praises Kreese and doesn't chase Ally and the movie ends.   But getting past that, I think this team is in great hands so we are in good shape.  And I love that the fan base is back.  Fingers crossed that the season unfolds in a way to hold that momentum.

 

 

We will certainly see how things play out.

 

I think we have a strong enough roster to do better than projected. I think EB was such a significant upgrade that it absolutely does take precedent over some of the poor OL moves. But the OL is the question mark. There are a bunch of guys that can pan out. Odds aren't on their side but let's see how it plays out.

 

It's tough to get a great read on anything from training camp. We have young guys all over the place and our offense is going against, what is supposed to be, an incredible defense. So I fully expected this group to struggle. 

 

I see a lot of reasons to be optimistic about Howell, Robinson, McLaurin, Dotson, Brown, Samuel and Gibson. I see a world where the OL can succeed but admit that the odds aren't stacked in favor of that. 

 

But other teams have issues, too. We exist in a vacuum here but listening to the media on how good some teams are and how awful others are is really interesting. We don't know a thing until we line up. So until then I'm going to keep it medium. 

 

Strategically I didn't think we had a great off-season... but maybe the talent we did acquire/keep will overcome that perceived strategic error.

 

I am not as high on the overall roster as you guys have been, so that's true. But I do see talent across the board in most positions. I see two positions where I am very concerned and I see a few positions where I feel we have a ton of solid talent stacked up.

 

We'll see. 

 

We'll also see if I can say we'll see any more times in a single post. 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

We will certainly see how things play out.

 

I think we have a strong enough roster to do better than projected. I think EB was such a significant upgrade that it absolutely does take precedent over some of the poor OL moves. But the OL is the question mark. There are a bunch of guys that can pan out. Odds aren't on their side but let's see how it plays out.

 

It's tough to get a great read on anything from training camp. We have young guys all over the place and our offense is going against, what is supposed to be, an incredible defense. So I fully expected this group to struggle. 

 

I see a lot of reasons to be optimistic about Howell, Robinson, McLaurin, Dotson, Brown, Samuel and Gibson. I see a world where the OL can succeed but admit that the odds aren't stacked in favor of that. 

 

But other teams have issues, too. We exist in a vacuum here but listening to the media on how good some teams are and how awful others are is really interesting. We don't know a thing until we line up. So until then I'm going to keep it medium. 

 

Strategically I didn't think we had a great off-season... but maybe the talent we did acquire/keep will overcome that perceived strategic error.

 

I am not as high on the overall roster as you guys have been, so that's true. But I do see talent across the board in most positions. I see two positions where I am very concerned and I see a few positions where I feel we have a ton of solid talent stacked up.

 

We'll see. 

 

We'll also see if I can say we'll see any more times in a single post. 

 

 

We had the same takeaways during the draft.  We didn't have issues for the most part about who they took in a vaccum.  Our beef was with how it unfolded on the aggregate.  We said it immediately among other people.  I believe @Koolblue13 too and I think am forgetting some others.    But we were salty.  And we didn't start salty.  And both of us have been pretty nice to Rivera over the years so it certainly wasn't anything personal or about any predisposition.  

 

In short, if they are going to use the draft as a need based approach with 1-2 specific positions targeted in each round.  Keim spelled it out exactly before each round and they followed that script -- then they need to map out the full chess board and in our opinions they didn't do that well.   And that means everything.  FA.  And in the draft which positions are deeper where you can get away with waiting a bit easier.  And what would be the consequences of ignoring some spots, etc. 

 

In my defense, my angst was actually set up by Ron ironically.  The smoke signals were about code red for the O line spot.  Ron flat out said so multiple times.  Beat reporters mostly said they were hearing the same.  We had conversations on the draft thread about maybe they take an O lineman with BOTH their first and 2nd round picks. 

 

Not only don't they take one in either round, they don't take a single O lineman that is slated to start, heck not even to be their first line backup.  And for those who are defending Ron's approach on this, I'd put money if we raced back in time to a few months ago and said look what do you think about this -- we won't take an O lineman in the draft until the end of the third round.  And we won't take a single O lineman as a starter or front line backup for this season -- I bet no one would say heck yes, no problem, we got Wylie, we got Gates everything else is unneeded gravy for this season -- lets groom guys for 2024.

 

As for the roster, I've never been very high on it.  But I thought they had a good shot at the wildcard in recent seasons.  And also I was very forgiving for Ron not finishing the roster because you can't build Rome in a day.  But that leeway from me doesn't extend to season 4. 

 

I do agree its possible that it comes together.  I do think if everything breaks right the O line might be fine.  I just can't recall a season when everything has broken right so its made me a bit more cynical about that than I used to be. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[oraphus]

1 hour ago, RabidFan said:

Well with a name like Oraphus, the bad just drips out of him in all areas.

If you stand in front of me at waist level.. you'll get some good drips out of me. 

[redskinss]

 losing Obada for the year went kind of unnoticed.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, redskinss said:

 losing Obada for the year went kind of unnoticed.

Yeah, that really sucks. I liked him.

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

We had the same takeaways during the draft.  We didn't have issues for the most part about who they took in a vaccum.  Our beef was with how it unfolded on the aggregate.  We said it immediately among other people.  I believe @Koolblue13 too and I think am forgetting some others.    But we were salty.  And we didn't start salty.  And both of us have been pretty nice to Rivera over the years so it certainly wasn't anything personal or about any predisposition.  

 

In short, if they are going to use the draft as a need based approach with 1-2 specific positions targeted in each round.  Keim spelled it out exactly before each round and they followed that script -- then they need to map out the full chess board and in our opinions they didn't do that well.   And that means everything.  FA.  And in the draft which positions are deeper where you can get away with waiting a bit easier.  And what would be the consequences of ignoring some spots, etc. 

 

In my defense, my angst was actually set up by Ron ironically.  The smoke signals were about code red for the O line spot.  Ron flat out said so multiple times.  Beat reporters mostly said they were hearing the same.  We had conversations on the draft thread about maybe they take an O lineman with BOTH their first and 2nd round picks. 

 

Not only don't they take one in either round, they don't take a single O lineman that is slated to start, heck not even to be their first line backup.  And for those who are defending Ron's approach on this, I'd put money if we raced back in time to a few months ago and said look what do you think about this -- we won't take an O lineman in the draft until the end of the third round.  And we won't take a single O lineman as a starter or front line backup for this season -- I bet no one would say heck yes, no problem, we got Wylie, we got Gates everything else is unneeded gravy for this season -- lets groom guys for 2024.

 

As for the roster, I've never been very high on it.  But I thought they had a good shot at the wildcard in recent seasons.  And also I was very forgiving for Ron not finishing the roster because you can't build Rome in a day.  But that leeway from me doesn't extend to season 4. 

 

I do agree its possible that it comes together.  I do think if everything breaks right the O line might be fine.  I just can't recall a season when everything has broken right so its made me a bit more cynical about that than I used to be. 

 

I think this is a fine stance. Not overly negative on anything, understanding it can all pan out but also fully aware that we didn't address the major issues on the team in an adequate way.

[RandyHolt]

Its ironic seeing the players in the safer soft shell helmets only to put on the rock hard Riddell that absorb none of the hit, once the hitting starts in earnest.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

The logjam at corner is a very good reason to move one for draft assets. We won't. But we should be exploring it... even if we don't pull the trigger. 

If trade St. Juste for a guard tomorrow if they could figure it out.  
 

They won’t.  But they should. 
 

And I like St. Juste.  

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 losing Obada for the year went kind of unnoticed.

 

I think its a different player, David Bada versus Obada

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I think this is a fine stance. Not overly negative on anything, understanding it can all pan out but also fully aware that we didn't address the major issues on the team in an adequate way.

 

The big wildcard for me is do they make other signings.  If a Lenon type signing still happens that will change my mood.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RandyHolt]

It seemed like many argued that CB was a position of need before the draft. 

 

I called bunk personally - I thought our DBs did fine last season and regardless if I am wrong spending so much draft capital on the DL should make it easy to get by with average DBs.

 

Maybe it was the injuries but here's the bad news. DBs get injured. Its a very tough position players aren't very big and often its friendly fire coming in late. Every damn year there are off the street DBs getting playing time late in the season.

[HigSkin]

Now the defense is doing the tennis ball thing....

 

 

[redskinss]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think its a different player, David Bada versus Obada

For some reason my brain read Obada.

Thx for the clarification. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by redskinss

[HigSkin]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

24 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

I don't understand why Paul wasn't given the first shot at the LG spot.

 

There are times when I think Ron and company are just pig headed about wanting to get a guy in a spot.  

 

Charles just hasn't earned it yet.  Maybe he will.

 

Regardless, I think Paul is going to start the majority of games at LG this season either because he beats Charles out or because Charles gets hurt.  Or, most likely, both.

[MartinC]

55 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

It seemed like many argued that CB was a position of need before the draft. 

 

I called bunk personally - I thought our DBs did fine last season and regardless if I am wrong spending so much draft capital on the DL should make it easy to get by with average DBs.

 

Maybe it was the injuries but here's the bad news. DBs get injured. Its a very tough position players aren't very big and often its friendly fire coming in late. Every damn year there are off the street DBs getting playing time late in the season.

DB was a need - if only because Fuller is on the last year if his deal and we needed to think about his replacement. Plus St Juste has had trouble staying on the field. 
 

A lot if us projected that a DB might well end up being the first round pick when you factored in who might still be on the board when we picked. It was not a surprise the top OT where off the board by our pick.

[Conn]

16 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't understand why Paul wasn't given the first shot at the LG spot.

 

There are times when I think Ron and company are just pig headed about wanting to get a guy in a spot.  

 

Charles just hasn't earned it yet.  Maybe he will.

 

Regardless, I think Paul is going to start the majority of games at LG this season either because he beats Charles out or because Charles gets hurt.  Or, most likely, both.

EB had a preexisting relationship with Charles, I believe. Plus the roster seniority I guess. It was his last chance to develop into relevance so I don’t regret that he got it, in the end. 

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

If it makes you feel better Paul had already started earning some 1st team snaps before the injury 

It does. There are lot of us here that going to have to ride on the hope Paul can reach his high potential early this year.

2 minutes ago, Conn said:

EB had a preexisting relationship with Charles, I believe. Plus the roster seniority I guess. It was his last chance to develop into relevance so I don’t regret that he got it, in the end. 

Yes, wasn't Charles even at his side with Logan Thomas for his opening presser/announcement?

They look at his as still really young and full of untapped potential.

I think that's a great stance but in the end, he is failing yet again to impress when given the opportunity.

And then there's that whole staying healthy thing with him.

Paul was Plan B. Looks like a week in and we will need to move to Plan B

[zCommander]

Just a heads up. There is a Hall of Fame game tonight. This is the thread to post into. 🙂

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by zCommander