2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[actorguy1]

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I've been listening to the Logan Paulsen "take command" podcast, and he actually said the words "offensive line" and "good" in the same sentence.  

 

He said he's been watching them come together and get better at passing off defenders, and said he sees improvement every day, and if it continues the OL could be "good."

 

He also said he sees some space opening in the run game, which he didn't see last year.  

 

I toss this out because it seems to be the first time I've heard ANYBODY say anything other than the OL is going to be complete crap all season, so maybe there is a glimmer of hope.

 

Though, I always like to caveat everything with "pay attention to the source."  He is an employee of the team.  So, is he blowing sunshine up our asses?  Maybe.  

 

Time will tell.  

52 minutes ago, Conn said:

EB had a preexisting relationship with Charles, I believe. Plus the roster seniority I guess. It was his last chance to develop into relevance so I don’t regret that he got it, in the end. 

He did?  From where?  Charles went to LSU and then was drafted here.  I'm not questioning you, but I hadn't heard that before.  

 

I guess my position is if a guy is essentially a bust for 3 years and not very available, I don't think the fact he hasn't gotten cut "earns" him the right to have the first shot at the job. Everybody should have a shot to win a job.  But I just feel he hasn't done anything to earn being first in line.  And after he got planted like a sunflower in a pot a few times early in practice, it was time to start splitting reps evenly to give Paul a chance.

 

One of my biggest issues with Rivera has always been they just get fixated on a guy and try to make it work for MUCH MUCH longer than they should.  Give him a shot, he didn't excel, on to the next guy.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I've been listening to the Logan Paulsen "take command" podcast, and he actually said the words "offensive line" and "good" in the same sentence.  

 

He said he's been watching them come together and get better at passing off defenders, and said he sees improvement every day, and if it continues the OL could be "good."

 

He also said he sees some space opening in the run game, which he didn't see last year.  

 

I toss this out because it seems to be the first time I've heard ANYBODY say anything other than the OL is going to be complete crap all season, so maybe there is a glimmer of hope.

 

Though, I always like to caveat everything with "pay attention to the source."  He is an employee of the team.  So, is he blowing sunshine up our asses?  Maybe.  

 

Time will tell.  

 

I haven't listened to his last podcast but will.

 

For him to think its good, that would be a new development.  Heck I recall last week your favorite radio personality, Chris Russell, 😎 said on air that this O line will be better than people expect.  Then he had Paulsen come on the next segment.  Paulsen goes Russell's producer cued him up to the O line love -- and Paulsen basically laughed and said:  really Chris, the O line?

 

He's been a bit all over place tough on segments ripping Charles and Wylie on some segments but then praising them in others.

 

But of course i am hoping for good things.  As I am typing this I am listening to Ross Tucker rip this O line's lineup on 106.7.  Hopefully he's wrong.

 

Keim said the run game looking better than the pass game so I presume the O line has much to do with it.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

We could clearly see that Paul had potential from the Dallas game, but looked as if he needed an offseason of work to make a leap to become solid. Hopefully this has happened.

 

From the sounds of training camp that the OL is actually doing some damage in the run game, maybe Paul has improved a bit.

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I haven't listened to his last podcast but will.

 

For him to think its good, that would be a new development.

It's today's podcast, and it's right at the beginning.  They started talking about QB, and Paulsen immediately transitioned to OL.  

 

I haven't gotten all the way through it, just the first 10 minutes, but he was more positive on the OL than anything I have heard.  Didn't say it was going to be a strength, but did say that if they continue to improve, they might be ok.  

 

Shrug.  Who knows.  He might be right, he might be wrong. He might just be going against the grain to go against the grain.  

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

It's today's podcast, and it's right at the beginning.  They started talking about QB, and Paulsen immediately transitioned to OL.  

 

I haven't gotten all the way through it, just the first 10 minutes, but he was more positive on the OL than anything I have heard.  Didn't say it was going to be a strength, but did say that if they continue to improve, they might be ok.  

 

Shrug.  Who knows.  He might be right, he might be wrong. He might just be going against the grain to go against the grain.  

 

As down as I am on the off season attempts to address the position, I do think its possible that everything breaks right.  I wouldn't bet on it but anything's possible.  I laid it out in a post weeks ago.  In short, it would be driven by Paul developing, Cosmi staying healthy.  Leno not dropping off, he will be 32 during the season, and he faded down the stretch last season.  Wyiie being charged by his SB apperance and plays OK.  I am not as hung up on Gates because I like the depth under him.

 

Tucker summarized it well for me just now on 106.7, there are too many ifs for him to be comfortable with this unit.

 

But I do think there is a small chance that all the ifs and buts turns to candy and nuts.  i hope so.  

 

My thesis remains the O line isn't a train wreck, it's sort of a D plus unit but can have a C ceiling when they play "meh" D lines like Arizona.  I think the angst occurs when they play really good D lines like the teams in our division.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Washington Commanders’ training camp practices don’t end with the last whistle and final huddle. For roughly 30 minutes after the team’s on-field workout, many skill players head to the end zone to catch footballs and tennis balls.

 

 

Post-practice reps on the JUGS machines are hardly new, but the addition of tennis ball machines are courtesy of new offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy.

 

“It’s [about] hand-eye coordination,” he said with a grin after Wednesday’s practice. “Wait until we put dots on them and they have to call out the colors.”

After a stint playing for Andy Reid in Philadelphia and 10 years coaching with him in Kansas City, Bieniemy has become well-versed in the habits of Super Bowl-winning teams. That he would bring many of those habits (and even some players) to Washington was almost a certainty.

 

Since Bieniemy arrived, Washington has signed four players who were with him in Kansas City: tackle Andrew Wylie, wide receivers Marcus Kemp and Byron Pringle and running back Derrick Gore. And the Commanders’ similarities to the Chiefs spill over to structure and the finer details of practices.

 

 

“It’s the same structure,” Pringle said.

Added running back Jaret Patterson: “You look at the Chiefs, they must have been doing something right, so I’m glad we’re doing that type of practice style.”

Washington’s practices are built around movement and teaching. The typically two-hour sessions are designed to keep players working at all times — no standing around — and the intensity high, just like in games.

In 2020, Reid said the Chiefs don’t do any conditioning after practice for a reason. “We’re not lining up and running sprints,” he said. “Condition during practice, we’ll keep you watered down — we’re not doing the no-water game. But we know that in games you have to be ready.”

 

Reid, like Bieniemy, stays focused on the little things, too.

 

If quarterback Sam Howell is too lackadaisical in gathering the huddle after a play, he will hear about it — just as he did Wednesday.

 

...On Wednesday, the Commanders practiced a bit longer and added two more action periods to focus on specific situations. After individual work, which included running back routes, the team stretched and then moved into red-zone work, a focus of the day.

 

When it transitioned to 11-on-11 team drills, it applied aspects of the individual drills. Running back Brian Robinson Jr. was the first target for Howell and, along with the other backs, was used regularly in space.

“One thing Eric is doing is he is throwing a lot at the guys and is forcing them to study,” Rivera said. “He’s forcing them to do the extra things to get up to speed as quickly as he wants them. And … we’re not game-planning out here. … You’re taking the volume of 300, 350 plays and narrowing that scope for the game plan. So these guys have to learn a lot, retain a lot and then take it and put it on the field.”

To do all that, the Commanders spread out to both practice fields to work on specific situations.

 

On the field farthest from the bleachers of fans, the tight ends and backs worked on blitz pickups and routes against the linebackers. The near field was split, with offensive and defensive linemen going one-on-one on the left and wide receivers and defensive backs going one-on-one (and sometimes two-on-two and three-on-three) on the right.

The Commanders had two goal-line sessions later in practice, another red-zone period and more drills of a specific focus as positional groups spread across both fields.

“To be in shape — to be in great shape — you got to have more volume,” tight end Logan Thomas said. “… It’s been good for us, and it’s going to be good for us come the actual football season because when we get in the fourth quarter, we’re not going to be sucking air.”

[Skinsinparadise]

I would say as for hype machines.  Hyatt is the next Tyreek Hill and Waller is the best TE in the league, judging by NY reporters. 

 

I hate that team.  But I confess that I am jealous about that FO.  Schoen was considered an up and comer in Buffalo and he took as his #2, one of Roseman's top guys.  And this year they added Cowden to that office who has some hype as a sharp personnel guy.

 

At least according to their reporters, Giants will not have issues with the passing game weapons this year -- their weakness will transform to a strength.  I hope they are wrong.  Otherwise maybe @Koolblue13's prediction of them winning the division isn't crazy. 😢

 

My gut though is 10-7 is their ceiling.  Even if I bought into their weapons -- and I am sort in the middle on that -- camp with every team is typically hyperbolic -- I think Daniel Jones puts a ceiling on that offense.  

 

I hate though to see Chad Johnson jump on the hype.  He's been so much about being a Dotson and Terry guy. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

It seemed like many argued that CB was a position of need before the draft. 

 

I called bunk personally - I thought our DBs did fine last season and regardless if I am wrong spending so much draft capital on the DL should make it easy to get by with average DBs.

 

Maybe it was the injuries but here's the bad news. DBs get injured. Its a very tough position players aren't very big and often its friendly fire coming in late. Every damn year there are off the street DBs getting playing time late in the season.

On the other hand, having an improved secondary also helps the dline get home… look at Sweat’s pressures to sacks ratio for example.  Last year, they tried out Holmes, Wildgoose and Castro-Fields before settling on DJ (along with McCain rolling down into the slot), who played fairly well.  Now, they’ve built in another layer of depth so that DJ might not be next man up, but instead next, next man up.  

And then of course, there’s also everything Martin says below…

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

DB was a need - if only because Fuller is on the last year if his deal and we needed to think about his replacement. Plus St Juste has had trouble staying on the field. 
 

A lot if us projected that a DB might well end up being the first round pick when you factored in who might still be on the board when we picked. It was not a surprise the top OT were off the board by our pick.

I would add that upgrading from McCain (in terms of slot corner especially) is helpful as well.  I think it’s going to be interesting seeing what they decide to do with St Juste - start him over Forbes, start him over Quan, or have him serve as more of a depth role for both spots (though probably still coming in in certain packages).

[redskinss]

I like the dimes dak was throwing in practice better.

[Captain Wiggles]

Quote

114 hrs community service, another driving course, essay on reckless driving

 

That'll learn him. 🤣

 

[HigSkin]

14 minutes ago, redskinss said:

I like the dimes dak was throwing in practice better.

 

Like these...LOL

 

 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I saw Daniel Jones play his entire college career. If he ever wins a playoff game let alone an NFC title, I will eat a bowl of quinoa. And I hate ****ing quinoa.

 

The guy folds and sucks and fumbles when it counts. 

[redskinss]

21 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Like these...LOL

 

 

Yes exactly like those.

Lol

[mh86]

19 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I saw Daniel Jones play his entire college career. If he ever wins a playoff game let alone an NFC title, I will eat a bowl of quinoa. And I hate ****ing quinoa.

 

The guy folds and sucks and fumbles when it counts. 

Well to be fair, they won a playoff game last year. I’m with you though, he’s about as good as quinoa.

[Conn]

25 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I saw Daniel Jones play his entire college career. If he ever wins a playoff game let alone an NFC title, I will eat a bowl of quinoa. And I hate ****ing quinoa.

 

The guy folds and sucks and fumbles when it counts. 

I’ll fetch the Quinoa then, I guess 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Conn

[FootballZombie]

44 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I saw Daniel Jones play his entire college career. If he ever wins a playoff game let alone an NFC title, I will eat a bowl of quinoa. And I hate ****ing quinoa.

 

The guy folds and sucks and fumbles when it counts. 

 

"D Jones will never do that thing he's already done"

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I've been listening to the Logan Paulsen "take command" podcast, and he actually said the words "offensive line" and "good" in the same sentence.  

 

He said he's been watching them come together and get better at passing off defenders, and said he sees improvement every day, and if it continues the OL could be "good."

 

Its not a Washington offseason without Paulsen having an oddly outrageously positive take on a position group (even if this one aint even that positive) compared to nearly everyone else and me annually pointing out said take contains so much fluff that it can only be measured in baby seals.

 

 

Ahh... that feels normal...

Edited August 3, 2023 by FootballZombie

[Conn]

Gibson hates “gibby” and so do I. Seems really annoyed about it, actually lol

[Skinsinparadise]

Training camp notebook, Day 8 | Fuller has seen steady improvement from Forbes

Wednesday's practice was one of the most intense the Washington Commanders experienced up to this point in training camp. The players were on the field for well over two hours in the heat, and as has been the case this year, Eric Bieniemy and the rest of the coaches demanded a lot from them.

So, the players were rewarded with a much lighter, and shorter, practice on Thursday.

"We had a really good week last week, then coming into this week, three hard days in a row, and we thought we'd back it off a little bit today in terms of the tempo," head coach Ron Rivera told reporters.

Thursday's practice was much more relaxed compared to previous days. The starting offense rarely competed against each other, and special teams was more of a priority. As a result, the players were able to focus more on fine tuning their technique and execution on certain plays.

But with pads coming back on tomorrow, Rivera wants them to be fresh and ready to go.

 

-- Since the intensity at practice was toned down, evaluating competition can be difficult. With that said, there were still some standout moments, one of the biggest being how crisp Sam Howell looked all morning. His first three passes were completed to Brian Robinson, Jahan Dotson and Dyami Brown with the latter bringing in receptions deep downfield. The defense didn't battle much for the ball, but Howell did have good placement on the passes.

-- There were some rare moments when the tone sped up a bit more, and that was the case in red zone drills. The clear catch of the day came from Marcus Kemp, who made a grab in the corner of the end zone from Jacoby Brissett.

 

 

...Camp stars show up every year, and it looks like Mason Brooks, an undrafted free agent out of Ole Miss, has become this for the Commanders' offensive line. He's had a solid week of practice so far, including a couple of reps where he shut down Phidarian Mathis in 1-on-1 pass protection drills. Rivera thinks Brooks is a "solid" player who might get overlooked because he only spent one season in the SEC, but he has looked better with more opportunities.

-- On that note, Rivera discussed how undrafted free agents can stand out in camp. In a word: consistency.

"If he gets your attention, he's gotta do it from that point on," Rivera said. "It's the same thing at any position. Is he consistent? When he gets his opportunity to play, how does he play? And is he ready to play?"

 

- Here's a couple injury updates: Saahdiq Charles is dealing with a calf injury and is considered day-to-day. David Bada tore his tricep and is being evaluated today.

-- Bieniemy has pushed the players constantly for the first couple weeks of camp, but players like Samuel have come to appreciate his style.

"You want someone that's gonna be hard on you, because you understand it's coming from a good place," Samuel said. "Sometimes, players need someone who's gonna push them to the next level."

-- Finally, Fuller has been impressed with rookie Emmanuel Forbes, saying that his fellow cornerback is starting to play faster.

"When you first get in there trying to learn the defense, sometimes you allow your mental process to slow you down," Fuller said. "He's been coming out here, mentally starting to pick it up faster, so you see him reacting faster to certain things and routes and things like that. He's definitely improving each and every day."

 

https://www.commanders.com/news/training-camp-notebook-day-8-fuller-has-seen-steady-improvement-from-forbes

 

[Skinsfan1311]

8 hours ago, redskinss said:

Trust me sip it's not you I get frustrated by, and I agree it would be boring and also naive to just be positive about everything, I too have many reservations about this season.

There's just certain times and certain topics where it goes from pessimism to unwarranted and exaggerated negativity and then the mob takes over.

But it's part of being a diverse fanbase and I'll cope but I'll also say my piece when I think the doom and gloom is getting out of hand.

It's ES.

It's what we do.

[HTTSkins]

14 hours ago, MartinC said:

There is talent on this roster. In some ways under Ron’s watch we have done a pretty good job building the roster into one that’s massively underrated nationally - and to some extent by us!

 

There has been a lot of draft capital put into the D and we have one of the better defensive lines and now possibly secondaries in the league. Linebacker is still an area of concern but it’s also an area you can scheme around to some extent. The D is one of the better units in the league.

 

On offense we have excellent skill position players. As a three our receivers are a very very strong position group. Running back is solid but lacks a real top tier talent, I would say the same for TE, though the team seem high on the group. 
 

O’line and QB are the huge question marks that will define the season. If you added a stud LT and legit top tier starting QB to this exact roster it’s playoff caliber. Obviously finding a legit top tier QB is easier said than done - we’ve been looking for about 30 years and counting. 

I think Ron’s build of the roster mirrors his personality and that being solid if not spectacular 

[Skinsinparadise]

Rank was negative before last season too but he’s acting like he was vindicated when he wasn’t. They were mediocre and not awful like the predicted then

 

 

[zCommander]

@Skinsinparadise So Adam Rank was off by 5 wins last year so if we add 5 to his prediction for this year means we will have 10 wins.  

 

What I find totally hilarious is that Adam is looking at Sam Howell only and not even considering that our top 5 defense this year will win us some games too. 

[kingdaddy]

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He did?  From where?  Charles went to LSU and then was drafted here.  I'm not questioning you, but I hadn't heard that before.  

 

I remember the EB introductory presser and all of the players who came out to support him. Charles and EB hugged like they knew each other from before and it really stood out. Most other players just shook EB's hand. I believe it if someone says they knew each other from before. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I remember the EB introductory presser and all of the players who came out to support him. Charles and EB hugged like they knew each other from before and it really stood out. Most other players just shook EB's hand. I believe it if someone says they knew each other from before. 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not disputing it.  I’m just curious where they would have run into each other.  

4 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

Its not a Washington offseason without Paulsen having an oddly outrageously positive take on a position group (even if this one aint even that positive) compared to nearly everyone else and me annually pointing out said take contains so much fluff that it can only be measured in baby seals.

What’s odd is he has been fairly down on the OL until today. 
 

as I said. It could just be smoke.  But I thought it was notable given he hadn’t been very positive on the group before.