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2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

Conn

By Conn
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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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11 hours ago, KDawg said:

It's not hard to figure out what the OL is supposed to be doing if you have a bit of football background. It's not out of the realm of reality to criticize the group for their lack of play based on their play in camp.

 

To me, the only real domino that has to fall before we get a more "solid" verdict is matching up against other teams. There is a distinct possibility that they are getting their asses handed to them because our DL is absolutely dominant in the League and not just against our guys.

 

But, of course, there is likely the possibility that they just aren't good.

 

My guess is that it's more of B than A, but a bit of both of them combined.

 

But we'll see.

 

But I wouldn't bury my head in the sand and say "NOPE! I CAN'T HEAR YOU! THIS OL IS NOT BAD! GO AWAY BAD VOICES!" and dismiss the whole thing as cluelessness. 

 

Good post.

 

I am critical but I actually believe its more likely more B over A, too.  My point is yeah I'd bet much of this is about facing THIS D line. The problem though for this team is they got a tough schedule at least in theory where half the season will be against teams that were top half in the league in sacks.

 

And this division has some stacked D lines.  Jonathan Allen is tough but arguably Dexter Lawrence is even tougher.  Leonard Williams, Micah Parsons, Fletcher Cox, Jordan Davis, Reddick, Brandon Graham, Nolan Smith, etc are no jokes.  Charles Leno is a solid tackle but Thibodeaux was too much for him last year.

 

Brandon Thon, O line guy that the mock drafters love quoting said it well for me -- O line isn't much different than other spots in that good players tend to beat average to below average players.  So I think this O line will be fine against pedestrian to lesser D lines this season.  But for example if our left side is overwhelned by Jonathan Allen, they also likely will be overwhelmed by Dexter Lawrence.

 

If Wylie is struggiling with Sweat as Bram said.  The odds are good he will struggle even more with Parsons.  If Leno couldn't handle Thibodeaux last year, not sure if it gets better for him being 32 this season and Thibodeaux touting taking his game up a notch etc.  This average at best unit (I suspect below average) are going to have to take on really good D lines who are more talented than them.

 

Dallas and the Eagles have above average O lines that are better equipped to deal with good D lines.  Giants are a tougher call, their unit is young, good run blockers but bad pass blockers.  If Evan Neal who supposedly is in better shape develops and JMS plays well they might evolve -- unlike this team they have dedicated serious draft capital to the spot.

 

Greg Cosell, who likes a lot of players on this roster, is no hater, when asked to stack this team versus the Eagles and he summed up the argument by just stacking this O line to the Eagles D line and suggested this team is no threat to the Eagles.   

 

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DWinzit

DWinzit

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7 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Joe Tippmann raised eyebrows by killing it in the HoF game.  He's currently third on the Jets' depth chart at C behind McGovern and Schweitzer.  If he plays like this through the rest of the Preseason, he won't stay third string.

 

I bet we could trade for McGovern.

I was under the impression McGovern was a straight C only. I am taking it he play G also based on your suggestion. I so, giving a solid experienced G/C would mean he could take Schweitzer (of all peoples) spot.  Not a shocker that Tippman is moving up, pretty certain he is expected to start as the year progresses. 

Would possibly allow for Larsen to be released and Daniels to hold a roster spot. 

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Seemed clear watching Tippman predraft that he might be an even better guard, he has a guard's physique and mentality.

 

Rivera said publicly and beat guys have heard privately they like Gates as a center not so much as a guard.  They clearly targeted Gates in FA.  They signed him quickly and paid him more than twice what the Jets paid for McGovern even though McGovern argubaly is the better pedigreed center.

I was under the impression the only reason TIppman at C was a question was his height at 6'6". Worries were guys getting under him and moving him. He has the tools and smarts to be a long term C in the league especially with other quality OL around him which the Jets have. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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7 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

 

I was under the impression the only reason TIppman at C was a question was his height at 6'6". Worries were guys getting under him and moving him. He has the tools and smarts to be a long term C in the league especially with other quality OL around him which the Jets have. 

 

I would comment on Tippman versus Avila on the draft thread saying Avila looks to me more of a natural center and Tippman a guard.  He started his career at RG.  He has the height and weight that suits the guard spot.  He was in Feldman's freak's list -- big time strong.  Skills IMO that you can capitalize more or just as much at guard.  He was one of my favorite players in that draft.    

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DWinzit

DWinzit

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9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I would comment on Tippman versus Avila on the draft thread saying Avila looks to me more of a natural center and Tippman a guard.  He started his career at RG.  He has the height and weight that suits the guard spot.  He was in Feldman's freak's list -- big time strong.  Skills IMO that you can capitalize more or just as much at guard.  He was one of my favorite players in that draft.    

I can see him at C or G. Most had him ranked as a first year starter loaded with talent. Avila seemed to definitely a better C, decent G. I am glad we didn't move up for him, I didn't think would have been prudent. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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38 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Its a shame Ron is trying to develop a QB but seems to have not addressed the OL first. Negativity aside, Andy Reid via EB creativity should help mitigate that but for some reason likely PTSD from Turner watching Wentz get sacked 9 times I see Ron trying to make Howell a classic immobile drop back passer. 

 

Based on what I saw that one day in camp and what's been described by others, they will keep Howell moving in the pocket and he will actually run plenty.

 

If I had to pick one thing I liked the most about watching Howell in that one practice he rolls in the pocket really fluidly to the right or left.

 

If the O line crashes too much like it did for Howell at North Carolina during his last season, I wonder if he runs too much.  Howell is a baller and will do whatever it takes.

 

Of course, there is no way to know yet if he's the answer, but I think its a given that he's a tough, do whatever it takes baller type -- so I am expecting plenty of running.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Seemed clear watching Tippman predraft that he might be an even better guard, he has a guard's physique and mentality.

 

Rivera said publicly and beat guys have heard privately they like Gates as a center not so much as a guard.  They clearly targeted Gates in FA.  They signed him quickly and paid him more than twice what the Jets paid for McGovern even though McGovern argubaly is the better pedigreed center.

 

They must think Gates is too slow to play guard well in their system then.  They've put our most athletic OLs at the guard spots, and I bet it's because of the run game.  Those guards have to combo off the IDLs and reach the linebackers/alley defenders, or else be able to reach block the edges I bet.  They're going to get almost all of the really hard blocks, and you have to be able to flip your runs either direction.  It's good to have symmetrical skill sets from the guards.

 

I don't mind Gates at C if the reasoning behind that is his more limited range.  It can be nice to have a big brawler at C for a change, so that you can single block IDLs in pass protection and anchor effectively.  I'm doubtful he has much talent for climbing up to those ILBs though.

 

Comparing him to McGovern, it seems clear we wanted more size at C then.  Gates is tackle sized, and came into the league as a tackle.  The Giants only moved him to C belatedly, and probably for the same reason we are playing him there: to solidify the pass protection in the middle of the pocket.  It's interesting to have a player who is basically a C/OT in your system, but our guard depth feels like the thinnest part of our line.  Unless we trade to bring in another athlete, I think there is a good chance that Stromberg or Daniels get onto the field this year at guard.  Wylie could, but since we need him starting at tackle, it feels like Cosmi, Paul, and Charles are our only OLs fast enough to play guard in our intended system.

 

Wish we had Dawand Jones.  Then Wylie and Cosmi could have started at guard and we would have a lot of redundancy built up for when they miss time.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

They must think Gates is too slow to play guard well in their system then.  They've put our most athletic OLs at the guard spots, and I bet it's because of the run game. 

 

Probably so.  Gates ran a 5.46.

 

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 but our guard depth feels like the thinnest part of our line. 

 

Agree.  And my concern is Cosmi's history of missing time.  Charles tends to miss a lot of time, too. 

 

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

Unless we trade to bring in another athlete, I think there is a good chance that Stromberg or Daniels get onto the field this year at guard. 

 

Agree.  Or Larsen if he makes the team.

 

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Wish we had Dawand Jones.  Then Wylie and Cosmi could have started at guard and we would have a lot of redundancy built up for when they miss time.

 

Assuming Jones holds up, it would have been a game changer. IMHO Wylie is better as a guard.  Getting a stalwart RT seemed to be the obvious perfect domino as most of us talked about on the draft thread and assumed it would go down.

 

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I would comment on Tippman versus Avila on the draft thread saying Avila looks to me more of a natural center and Tippman a guard.  He started his career at RG.  He has the height and weight that suits the guard spot.  He was in Feldman's freak's list -- big time strong.  Skills IMO that you can capitalize more or just as much at guard.  He was one of my favorite players in that draft.    

 

Tippmann is too high of a draft pick and too high ceiling of a player to languish on the bench this year.  They probably don't want a rookie snapping for Aaron Rodgers in a SB run season, so he'll get on the field at guard.  But long term, I think the Jets will play him at center.  He goes from being a pretty good guard to a super rare center with that athletic profile of a 10 yard split in the 1.6s and crazy bench numbers.  IMO he is a way more impressive prospect than Avila.

 

Avila was a nice player, but I never really saw much of a ceiling there.  He's going to end up at guard this year too, but seems like an average player at that position.  The Rams overdrafted him IMO, and I remember feeling relieved when he got taken before 47.  He is a powerful player, but he's slow.  I'd much rather have Quan Martin than him.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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20 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Tippmann is too high of a draft pick and too high ceiling of a player to languish on the bench this year.  They probably don't want a rookie snapping for Aaron Rodgers in a SB run season, so he'll get on the field at guard.  But long term, I think the Jets will play him at center.  He goes from being a pretty good guard to a super rare center with that athletic profile of a 10 yard split in the 1.6s and crazy bench numbers.  IMO he is a way more impressive prospect than Avila.

 

Avila was a nice player, but I never really saw much of a ceiling there.  He's going to end up at guard this year too, but seems like an average player at that position.  The Rams overdrafted him IMO, and I remember feeling relieved when he got taken before 47.  He is a powerful player, but he's slow.  I'd much rather have Quan Martin than him.

 

IMO Tippman can play either spot.  As far as Avila didn't love him or even like him watching him at guard but did like him but didn't love him at center.

 

Apparently though this team loved Avila.  Don't recall any hype about them digging Tippman but if I recall they interviewed him.  According to two reporters they really really really wanted Avilia but were thwarted in an attempt to trade up for him.

3 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

 

Feels like Josh Johnson will bounce around the league into his 40s at this rate and will play for every team

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

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Great news on Forbes. 
 

I think the OL will be an issue for us this year (who doesn’t 😆). But I think the apocalyptic takes are overblown. They will coach/scheme as much as they can to mitigate these issues. They should also improve with increased reps/chemistry. 
 

Let’s all pray for Sam Howell. 🤣

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