Is the Wentz trade the 2nd worst trade in franchise history?

[Searchingforaqb]

On 2/28/2023 at 7:07 AM, woodpecker said:

3rd for TJ Duckett and he didn’t play

trent Williams for a bag of chips

Alex Smith

McRibb

champ + a 2 for Portis 

brandon Lloyd

 

not top 2 but wentz is on the list somewhere

Trent Williams mess absolutely deserves a top ranking, rumours they were offered a 1sr and declined? Only to eventually let him walk for a 3rd and 5th

 

both the Smith and Wentz trades were awful. In both cases the qbs had been let go by superior organisations with superior rosters (Eageks for Wentz and SF+Chiefs for Smith) yet somehow Washington's genius front offices thought the QB's would flourish here

 

The RG3 trade was crazy as he'd never played in the nfl. 
 

All 4 trades terrible for different reasons. 

[tomwvr]

22 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

It ended up being 2 3rd round picks. 
 

if that’s even in your top 5 of worst trades, you’ve done REALLY well trading.  
 

It’s gotta be down the list. 
 

The Portis, Taylor, McNabb, Alex Smith, Ducket and Trent Williams trades were all worse.  And all worse by miles.  

No reason to throw in a 2nd.  Portis for Champ straight up would have been ok.  

I didnt get the 2nd, but at that time rbs were more important that cbs

[Dark Acre]

No way RGIII is even top 5.  It set us back because he got hurt and then mismanaged, but 2012 is one of only 3 enjoyable years since Gibbs left:  1999, 2005, and 2012.  All because of RGIII.  Frankly, with this team's track record, we'd've stunk anyway and not have the beautiful mirage of 2012.  I watched the Thanksgiving Dallas game on a big screen in a sports bar in Munich, Germany.  The Redskins were back!  It felt soooo good to watch a team that I not only liked, but that was good and capable of beating good teams.  The the playoffs ended were tragic, but a slow, 6th round rookie hanging 200 ground yards on Dallas in the regular season finale is something I'm glad I can watch over and over.  And opening day's 40-32.  Yeah.

[Conn]

20 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

It isn't always as simple as "our choice" when it comes to changing how much a player is making.  See Landon Collins.

 

Way I'm reading this...Allen's cap hit goes from around $10 million in 2022 to a little over $20 million per year in 2023 as part of the contract extension he just signed:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-commanders/jonathan-allen-21758/#:~:text=Contract Notes%3A,1M%2C 16 LTBE in 2023)

 

Coming after that this year when he finally starts getting his due would be disrespectful AF as far as he would see it, expect a hard "no" without blinking if we asked.

 

If we agree there wasn't enough cap space to sign another starter on the oline after losing two prior to the start of the 2022 season, I'm not feeling the notion that all we had to do was restructure some contracts but just chose not to. 

 

If our cap situation was straight in the first place we wouldn't of even needed to have to do that in order to get oline help we needed, that's the point.

Don’t really care about the rest of the conversation but just for the record, many many contract restructures do not result in the player taking home less money. That’s a pay cut. A restructure usually involves playing cap games by turning salary into guarantees, etc. Most players are open to having their contracts restructured when it’s beneficial. A player’s “cap hit” is not how much money they’re taking home, it’s accounting for the way the contract is structured. 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Conn

[Zim489]

9 hours ago, Dark Acre said:

No way RGIII is even top 5.  It set us back because he got hurt and then mismanaged, but 2012 is one of only 3 enjoyable years since Gibbs left:  1999, 2005, and 2012.  All because of RGIII.  Frankly, with this team's track record, we'd've stunk anyway and not have the beautiful mirage of 2012.  I watched the Thanksgiving Dallas game on a big screen in a sports bar in Munich, Germany.  The Redskins were back!  It felt soooo good to watch a team that I not only liked, but that was good and capable of beating good teams.  The the playoffs ended were tragic, but a slow, 6th round rookie hanging 200 ground yards on Dallas in the regular season finale is something I'm glad I can watch over and over.  And opening day's 40-32.  Yeah.

And the trade hurt because of the ridiculous cap penalty. 

[Renegade7]

27 minutes ago, Conn said:

Don’t really care about the rest of the conversation but just for the record, many many contract restructures do not result in the player taking home less money. That’s a pay cut. A restructure usually involves playing cap games by turning salary into guarantees, etc. Most players are open to having their contracts restructured when it’s beneficial. A player’s “cap hit” is not how much money they’re taking home, it’s accounting for the way the contract is structured. 

 

Most restructures I've seen, even when converting parts of what would be paid in a certain year, involve less overall money to a player in the season the team is needing the money for as part of getting the money later.  I've seen parts of the cap hit converted into money to the player that doesn't impact the cap the same way.

 

You're right the cap hit isn't the complete indicator of how much cash per season a player is getting overall, but contract sites (like the one I linked to) tend to track and help clarify that.

 

To come after Allen's contract the second he's supposed to get the bump he deserved and earned is a bad idea, not that you are specificly saying that we should or could do that, but someone else did and it should be off-limits, imo.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Most restructures I've seen, even when converting parts of what would be paid in a certain year, involve less overall money to a player in the season the team is needing the money for as part of getting the money later.  I've seen parts of the cap hit converted into money to the player that doesn't impact the cap the same way.

 

You're right the cap hit isn't the complete indicator of how much cash per season a player is getting overall, but contract sites (like the one I linked to) tend to track and help clarify that.

 

To come after Allen's contract the second he's supposed to get the bump he deserved and earned is a bad idea, not that you are specificly saying that we should or could do that, but someone else did and it should be off-limits, imo.

Sorry, this just isn’t correct. Restructures don’t result in less money going in the player’s pocket unless it’s specifically for the purpose of taking a pay cut. Not sure where you got that, restructures almost always lead to more money getting into a player’s pockets faster, if anything. When salary is converted to a signing bonus for the purposes of spreading out the cap hit for the team, the player gets that money in a lump sum immediately while the team gets a smaller current year cap number in exchange, with cap charges spread over future years. Not sure where your understanding of it came from. 
 

The reason some players, with some contracts, refuse to restructure is to wield the power given to them by their contract and force the team to cut them and their prohibitively high cap number—usually because their agent believes there is more guaranteed money and larger signing bonuses to be found in FA than from the team offering the restructure. That’s a simplification, but it’s one reason not every player is eager to restructure—when their contract has large cap number years built into future years, it can lead to leverage that may allow them to secure an even better contract in FA if they’re released. 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Conn

[WilberMarshall]

On 3/2/2023 at 12:10 PM, tshile said:

Although there were people saying it’s not smart to give that much up to draft anyone.
 

I was one of them.
 

im against mortgaging the future like that…

 

but as the season went on I was as excited as anyone watching him play.  

So what exactly did the Rams do with the picks they got?

 

Robert was ORTY and helped us win the NFC East. What did the Rams get with their player haul? 

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

19 hours ago, WilberMarshall said:

So what exactly did the Rams do with the picks they got?

 

Robert was ORTY and helped us win the NFC East. What did the Rams get with their player haul? 

 

Jeff Fisher's Rams got 7-9 decent players...

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen

[Wyvern]

I appreciate those who felt the one year thrill of RG3-driven, playoff season was worth giving up so many high draft picks.  That were definitely some highlights we can relive time and time again on You Tube.

 

But the reality was Washington mortgaged its future for one OROTY season followed by many disappointing seasons from Griffin, who was not durable enough for the playing style that best featured his skill-set.  And as we saw even in 2012 Griffin still had unresolved technical issues that limited his effectiveness as a passing QB which became even more concerning when his mobility was compromised.  If Washington had gotten 3 good seasons out of Griffin, perhaps this trade might have seemed better and not get included by those NFL analysts who like to compile lists of the worst trades in the NFL history.

 

I think we should note that however St. Louis managed to squander their windfall of picks, it doesn't really figure into how one evaluates the trade -- from Washington's perspective. 

 

The real issue is what Washington could have done by using or leveraging those high picks in rebuilding their team (especially with the #2 overall position in the 2014 draft.).  I keep thinking in the 2014 draft how Washington would have been able to pick someone like Khalil Mack for the roster, or Aaron Donald ... Instead Washington's "first" pick in 2014 was Trent Murphy, who, while decent, was not really at the same caliber of the players available to Washington if they'd been able to fully leverage their #2 position in the few rounds of that 2014 draft where they still had draft picks.

 

Enough time has passed that this doesn't matter as much now -- but on the whole, the RG3 trade really hamstrung the rebuilding opportunities for Washington in the years afterwards. And I remember that, especially whenever I reflect on what came out of 2014.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Wyvern

[Warhead36]

It isn't even the worst QB-related trade in the last 5 years. The Alex Smith trade was actually much worse because it cost us a draft pick AND Kendall Fuller AND we were stuck with his contract for multiple years.

[xxprodigyxx]

i admire alex smith for what he overcame while with us and his career overall...but that was a worse trade than wentz's trade in my book. primarily because i felt like we downgraded at qb (should've extended cousins before it got to that point) and we gave a contract extension. i didn't like wentz but i generally understood the thought process and we could cut him with no issues after the first year if he didn't pan out.

 

on a side note, the worst non-moves by the team imo are letting antonio pierce and ryan clark walk. i am still pissed about that.

Edited March 14, 2023 by xxprodigyxx

[skinsfan66]

WR Calvin Mohamet? from Raiders. think 2nd rd. pick Betherd trade. Was in to reading books and not playing football. 

[Dan T.]

On 2/28/2023 at 3:10 AM, Dark Acre said:

No.  The second worst was the 1978 trade of WR Frank Grant for Benny Malone w

 

People said Benny Malone wore number 25 to match his 2.5 yards per carry.

[Dark Acre]

The Trent Murphy pick was terrible.

[Captain Wiggles]

7 minutes ago, Dark Acre said:

The Trent Murphy pick was terrible.

 

Not only was he terrible but the drunk asshole what consulted on drafting him was then hired as the GM. He liked drafting "football players" tho. 🤣

Edited March 15, 2023 by Captain Wiggles

[method man]

26 minutes ago, Dark Acre said:

The Trent Murphy pick was terrible.

 

I disagree. Trent didn't necessarily live up to the expectations you'd have of a 2nd round pick but he wasn't a flat out bust either. He had a 9 sack season in 2016 before getting hurt for all of 2017 and he parlayed that into a multiyear deal with Buffalo.

[Dark Acre]

2 hours ago, method man said:

 

I disagree. Trent didn't necessarily live up to the expectations you'd have of a 2nd round pick but he wasn't a flat out bust either. He had a 9 sack season in 2016 before getting hurt for all of 2017 and he parlayed that into a multiyear deal with Buffalo.

I live in the Stanford media area and when I saw the pick, I was dumbfounded.  He was a clear reach.  BTW, we traded down from 34 for the picks that became Murphy and OL stud Spencer Long (who was injured at the time?).  Dallas, our trade partner, took Demarcus Lawrence....  We also passed on Joel Bitonio, Davante Adams, and Allen Robinson.

[thebluefood]

I forgot Paul Krause was drafted by Washington. Otto Graham was a great QB but he was...really not the best HC/GM

[veteranskinsfan]

There have been so many bad trades and bad draft picks over the years that I really try to block them out of my brain.  A lot of ex-Redskins ended up doing better once traded away.

[KWilliamsAWinfield]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:52 AM, veteranskinsfan said:

There have been so many bad trades and bad draft picks over the years that I really try to block them out of my brain.  A lot of ex-Redskins ended up doing better once traded away.

 

And that is the part that really really sucks and is disappointing