Is the Wentz trade the 2nd worst trade in franchise history?

[Est.1974]

6 hours ago, Dark Acre said:

Joe Gibbs picked Carlos Rogers over Aaron Rodgers.

Yep and also made this trade in the process...

 

Campbell was drafted as the 25th pick in the 2005 NFL Draft by the Washington Redskins under General Manager Vinny Cerrato. The Redskins traded up in the draft to get Campbell, surrendering a third round pick in the 2005 NFL draft, along with first and fourth round picks in 2006. He was the third quarterback selected in that draft class, after Alex Smith (1st overall pick) and Aaron Rodgers (24th overall, the pick before Campbell).

[DJHJR86]

Yes it is the worst trade in Commanders history.

[Koolblue13]

56 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Yes it is the worst trade in Commanders history.

Was it a Commie flop or a WTF flop? Commie, right? 

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

Yep and also made this trade in the process...

 

Campbell was drafted as the 25th pick in the 2005 NFL Draft by the Washington Redskins under General Manager Vinny Cerrato. The Redskins traded up in the draft to get Campbell, surrendering a third round pick in the 2005 NFL draft, along with first and fourth round picks in 2006. He was the third quarterback selected in that draft class, after Alex Smith (1st overall pick) and Aaron Rodgers (24th overall, the pick before Campbell).

Unreal. 

[Est.1974]

29 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

Unreal. 

Even better was we did it before the draft and everyone knew what our intentions were.

[tshile]

On 3/1/2023 at 8:20 AM, RandyHolt said:

Watching Portis truck blitzing linebackers for all those years was worth a 3rd or 4th rounder alone in terms of fan entertainment value. SE Jerome etc was worth a 7th.

Yeah I don’t get the Portis trade hate. 
 

bailey had to leave. He couldn’t stay. So the fact we lost him is irrelevant, we were going to lose him one way or another. 
 

we got back portis and for me he was a great player and what we always need are players like him that put it all out there every single play and just love to hit people 

[Wildbunny]

These threads doesn't have any purpose than going back all those years to list all of our bad trades we had, and that's a long list.

 

Then we debate on which one is the worst, second worst, and so on...

 

Just to end up thinking that all, in all, they're all tied at first...

 

Because we've been that bad at trading.

[Spaceman Spiff]

There are so many lenses to look at these bad trades through, it's hard to pick one as the worst. 

 

But I don't think Wentz is really up there, as pointed out he was a 1 year flier.  Statistically, he put up good enough numbers in Indy to make people think there might be something left in the tank.  And if you weren't excited about him after the Jacksonville game this year, you're lying to yourself.   He wasn't perfect in that game, but he caught fire when it counted, threw for 4 tuddies (yes, I'm aware he threw for two picks, too) and made throws that Heinicke sure couldn't.  

 

So it didn't work out for him here but we're not hurting because of it.

 

I also don't get the Portis trade hate, either.  As @tshilementioned, Champ was going one way or another and it's not like Portis didn't produce while he was here.  

 

In my mind, the McNabb one was pretty ****ing awful.  Could hear Andy Reid laughing from Philadelphia on that one.  Jason Taylor, as mentioned, was pretty bad.  Went right back to Miami and played at a high level.  Duckett was terrible.  I guess you could consider RG3 the worst trade ever, but I don't believe that was all his doing...if Shanahan didn't keep him in the Seattle game, it might have been a different story.  No one in 2012 was saying the trade was a bust until he got hurt.

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

No one in 2012 was saying the trade was a bust until he got hurt.

Although there were people saying it’s not smart to give that much up to draft anyone.
 

I was one of them.
 

im against mortgaging the future like that…

 

but as the season went on I was as excited as anyone watching him play.  

[TheDoyler23]

5 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Yep and also made this trade in the process...

 

Campbell was drafted as the 25th pick in the 2005 NFL Draft by the Washington Redskins under General Manager Vinny Cerrato. The Redskins traded up in the draft to get Campbell, surrendering a third round pick in the 2005 NFL draft, along with first and fourth round picks in 2006. He was the third quarterback selected in that draft class, after Alex Smith (1st overall pick) and Aaron Rodgers (24th overall, the pick before Campbell).

 

Man, I really thought they were trading up to get Rodgers and was like "well, the Packers have Favre so they can't be picking him here." 

 

UGH. 

[Wyvern]

The worst part was Washington picked Carlos Rogers with the 9th overall pick, a mediocre CB.with "stone hands"" that couldn't hang onto potential interceptions.

 

Trust this franchise to draft the wrong "Rodgers", and then double down on that mistake by expending draft picks to get a chance to pick Jason Campbell.

[Spaceman Spiff]

47 minutes ago, tshile said:

Although there were people saying it’s not smart to give that much up to draft anyone.
 

I was one of them.
 

im against mortgaging the future like that…

 

but as the season went on I was as excited as anyone watching him play.  

 

I remember thinking the price was steep but also realizing we needed a franchise guy and RG3 represented that.  And yeah, at the season went on I don't think I ever once thought of the draft picks we gave up for him.  

 

 

[tomwvr]

On 2/27/2023 at 11:00 PM, SkinsFTW said:

It's bad but probably not the worst.

 

If it was for a first then maybe.

 

 

 

Trading away a Hof cb for Portis and also giving up a 2nd, or even the Duckett trade was as bad or worse. trading all those picks for Rg Knee was definitely worse.

Oh and McNuggett.

Thar hof cb was going to leave town or his wife was going to leave him.

[RandyHolt]

9 hours ago, tshile said:

Yeah I don’t get the Portis trade hate. 
 

bailey had to leave. He couldn’t stay. So the fact we lost him is irrelevant, we were going to lose him one way or another. 
 

we got back portis and for me he was a great player and what we always need are players like him that put it all out there every single play and just love to hit people 

Only problem with Portis was at the very end when he couldn't finish long runs out properly... awkward and tough to watch him kind of give himself up with more yards to be had.  Portis was a badass who bulked up from 205 to 225 to be a modern day Riggins for Joe Gibbs II.

[Voice_of_Reason]

It ended up being 2 3rd round picks. 
 

if that’s even in your top 5 of worst trades, you’ve done REALLY well trading.  
 

It’s gotta be down the list. 
 

The Portis, Taylor, McNabb, Alex Smith, Ducket and Trent Williams trades were all worse.  And all worse by miles.  

1 hour ago, tomwvr said:

Thar hof cb was going to leave town or his wife was going to leave him.

No reason to throw in a 2nd.  Portis for Champ straight up would have been ok.  

[tshile]

19 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Only problem with Portis was at the very end when he couldn't finish long runs out properly... awkward and tough to watch him kind of give himself up with more yards to be had.  Portis was a badass who bulked up from 205 to 225 to be a modern day Riggins for Joe Gibbs II.

I’m willing to accept that this was the final result of giving it everything you got every play through your career. 
 

im ok with it. 

[tshile]

Honestly portis may be my favorite running back ever. 
 

the star running backs break tackles and get through holes they probably shouldn’t. And he did so that. 
 

but few of them will blow up a stud linebacker the way portis did. And he was willing to do it every ****ing time. 
 

I seem to recall him throwing an amazing downfield block for someone else running the ball. Maybe betts?

 

every time that dude punished a linebacker I cheered. It was great fun to watch. 

yeah this type of stuff

 

how the hell can you not love that out of your star RB. 

Idk how you can be a true football fan and not have the upmost appreciation for the way that dude played. 

[tshile]

This is now a Clinton portis appreciation thread

 

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by tshile

[Dark Acre]

Back in The Day when Riggo told George Allen to put a 60 number on his uniform since he was being used as a blocker, he would utterly hurt people.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibbRcuVhf4o  And that's a clean hit.  I loved watching Portis truck people, but Gibbs really F'd up trying to turn him into Riggins.  He was a stronger version of Joe Washington.

 

[Zim489]

On 3/1/2023 at 9:40 AM, Renegade7 said:

I wouldn't trade Wentz getting a "you're fired" via text message for anything...no way to get fair value back...

 

I agree with a lot of takes here, plenty that've been worse.

 

Trading for what QBs were instead of what QBs are is typically going to backfire.  

 

The thing that drives me mad about the trade is the plan being to trade for a veteran QB and realizing our cap situation wasn't set up to handle one of that size, or really one at all for a decent starter.

 

So we immediatly started coming after the oline, which cost us at least one or two games alone last year (Lions game comes to mind).

 

It was the cacade effect of making that trade that makes it so bad to me, with a cherry on top him throwing up on his last chance to show people he was worth it against SF. 

 

I don't like doing 180 on a player over one game, but I was done after that.  Made me look stupid defending him up to that point.

The cap was fine and we had more space available and could have made more moves if need be. The problem was the lack of understanding of your position in the league and that no veteran QB worth their salt was ever going to come here. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Not the worst IMO mainly because they recouped the picks and the cap hit was only for one year.

 

The trade that irritated me the most of all time is the Duckett deal.  A 3rd and 4th for a backup RB just because Portis gets dinged up in camp and the fear that the Eagles may trade for Duckett.  Ridiculous and showed a total disregard for the draft. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Renegade7]

53 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

The cap was fine and we had more space available and could have made more moves if need be. The problem was the lack of understanding of your position in the league and that no veteran QB worth their salt was ever going to come here. 

 

I don't agree our cap was fine at all.  

 

Any money we had leftover from the Wentz trade was being puppy guarded to extend Terry and sign our draft picks.

 

We spent most of last year hovering around $10 million in cap space, that's bare mininum for a respectable starter on the oline, which means signing just one to replace the two we lost would've left us broke or over the cap at some point in the season.

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I don't agree our cap was fine at all.  

 

Any money we had leftover from the Wentz trade was being puppy guarded to extend Terry and sign our draft picks.

 

We spent most of last year hovering around $10 million in cap space, that's bare mininum for a respectable starter on the oline, which means signing just one to replace the two we lost would've left us broke or over the cap at some point in the season.

That was because we chose to leave the remaining contracts as they were. It was only later in the season we restructured Roullier to create space.
 

No different to this year, we could restructure Allen, Samuel, Fuller etc and add another 15-20mil in 2023 cap space without even blinking. 

[Renegade7]

30 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

That was because we chose to leave the remaining contracts as they were. It was only later in the season we restructured Roullier to create space.
 

No different to this year, we could restructure Allen, Samuel, Fuller etc and add another 15-20mil in 2023 cap space without even blinking. 

 

It isn't always as simple as "our choice" when it comes to changing how much a player is making.  See Landon Collins.

 

Way I'm reading this...Allen's cap hit goes from around $10 million in 2022 to a little over $20 million per year in 2023 as part of the contract extension he just signed:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-commanders/jonathan-allen-21758/#:~:text=Contract Notes%3A,1M%2C 16 LTBE in 2023)

 

Coming after that this year when he finally starts getting his due would be disrespectful AF as far as he would see it, expect a hard "no" without blinking if we asked.

 

If we agree there wasn't enough cap space to sign another starter on the oline after losing two prior to the start of the 2022 season, I'm not feeling the notion that all we had to do was restructure some contracts but just chose not to. 

 

If our cap situation was straight in the first place we wouldn't of even needed to have to do that in order to get oline help we needed, that's the point.

[Est.1974]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

If our cap situation was straight in the first place we wouldn't of even needed to have to do that in order to get oline help we needed, that's the point.

Teams are 50,60,70 mil over the cap just prior to free agency and make it work. In almost all instance ‘salary cap hell’ is a load of BS, in my opinion. Rare cases, yes. But we are a million miles off that and have been for several years, again in my opinion.

[Renegade7]

17 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Teams are 50,60,70 mil over the cap just prior to free agency and make it work. In almost all instance ‘salary cap hell’ is a load of BS, in my opinion. Rare cases, yes. But we are a million miles off that and have been for several years, again in my opinion.

 

That sounds like a lot, but I hear you, it does happen. And to be clear, I'm not saying we put ourselves in cap hell.

 

I don't consider what the Pakcers went through last year following the loss of Adams as "making it work", because it didn't, their offense was a shell of itself and they missed the playoffs.

 

We backed ourselves into a corner that there wasn't an easy way out of (limited cap space to replace two lost starters on the oline) and picked up some folks Ron and Scott worked with before to make it work.

 

That didn't work either.