The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[Riggo-toni]

1 hour ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Didn't we pay big money to Cornelius Griffin during Gibbs2?

Yeah, and he was a great signing - arguably our best defensive player in 04 and 05. It was during the Spurrier era Vinny Bugeyes was starting DTs off the streets.

[MrJL]

41 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Also, Ridgeway tore his pec the last game of the year against Dallas. 

damn, I never heard that.

[Conn]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

What’s the current consensus relating to Washington being cash strapped this off season? 

Then we learned escrow doesn’t count until the following year, is Washington all clear there now? 

 

I own it doesn’t appear they are operating any differently than in years past, just curious if some continue to feel this way or those concerns have subsided?
 

 

I mean, we continue to be a team that basically never takes advantage of the tools most teams use—mostly converting salary into bonuses in order to create cap space and make more signings, despite this being a full do-or-die season for Rivera who has “full control”. Which doesn’t exactly track if he wants to keep his job. So I take that as them having a current year cash budget or directive from ownership not to use those tools, yes. So I’d still say it’s a problem even though I was pleasantly surprised to see us sign Payne. Likely due to the rule you mention that we recently learned about, the escrow money not being deposited until next year. Whereas converting salary to bonus requires cash paid out NOW.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Conn

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, Conn said:

I mean, we continue to be a team that basically never takes advantage of the tools most teams use—mostly converting salary into bonuses in order to create cap space and make more signings, despite this being a full do-or-die season for Rivera who has “full control”. So I take that as them having a current year cash budget or directive from ownership not to use those tools, yes. So I’d still say it’s a problem even though I was pleasantly surprised to see us sign Payne. Likely due to the rule you mention that we recently learned about, the escrow money not being deposited until next year. Whereas converting salary to bonus requires cash paid out NOW.

Agree with that, i will stick by my earlier comment that in conjunction with everything else we still appear very conservative to me. I’m not clamouring for us to throw a 4 year 70mil deal at a LB for example, but we aren’t really up against the cap.
 

We’re hesitant to converse a salary to bonus, it would only take one. I’d argue we are keeping hold of players that we will later release. I get that they love Roullier, but however you slice that up he’s not worth his contract. Neither is Logan Thomas. Neither is Norwell. Other teams would have cut those adrift or restructured by now. We don’t actually need more cash, we just need to take action and recycle it elsewhere.

 

Thats said, FA has gone ‘fine’ so far. I just find the ‘abundance of caution’ outdated....

[Die Hard]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

I mean, we continue to be a team that basically never takes advantage of the tools most teams use—mostly converting salary into bonuses in order to create cap space and make more signings, despite this being a full do-or-die season for Rivera who has “full control”. Which doesn’t exactly track if he wants to keep his job. So I take that as them having a current year cash budget or directive from ownership not to use those tools, yes. So I’d still say it’s a problem even though I was pleasantly surprised to see us sign Payne. Likely due to the rule you mention that we recently learned about, the escrow money not being deposited until next year. Whereas converting salary to bonus requires cash paid out NOW.

I’d argue that this is now 2 off seasons where Rivera is on the hot seat - the only reason why we wasn’t canned this off-season is because of ownership circumstances - and there’s a lack of urgency again.

 

Doesnt seem to be all in. 
 

In a division with 3 pretty strong teams. 

 

Another lame duck season.
 

 

[Chump Bailey]

2 hours ago, srtman04 said:

 

The Bengals O-Line sucks donkey balls.   Why would we want that here?  

 

A change of scenery while playing alongside better players might be fruitful for both. He was selected 11th overall in 2019 for a reason.  

[wit33]

2 hours ago, Conn said:

I mean, we continue to be a team that basically never takes advantage of the tools most teams use—mostly converting salary into bonuses in order to create cap space and make more signings, despite this being a full do-or-die season for Rivera who has “full control”. Which doesn’t exactly track if he wants to keep his job. So I take that as them having a current year cash budget or directive from ownership not to use those tools, yes. So I’d still say it’s a problem even though I was pleasantly surprised to see us sign Payne. Likely due to the rule you mention that we recently learned about, the escrow money not being deposited until next year. Whereas converting salary to bonus requires cash paid out NOW.

Do we want to be the team that consistently converts money?
 

On the surface I like the idea of keeping the books clean as possible, but admit I don’t have the spectrum of knowledge in this area to compare team’s use of converting money versus others who are more conservative and how that translates to consistent success. Setting the  precedent of not converting money seems like good business, would be lying to say I truly know. 
 

Yes, I follow closely enough to know about Saints, Rams, Cowboys, or even Washington back in the day employ this strategy, not convinced it’s a “truth” in the least. Not envious of their spending or cap situations. Washington books from my 7min of research on Spottrac compared to other teams looks solid. 
 

Keep the roster churning. With that said, winning must take place, so in now way saying either way is right or wrong. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by wit33

[Est.1974]

First up I like Brissett and what he’s going to add. Slight issue for me is that we say we are rolling with Howell, then use considerable cap space, in context, on another QB for competition. Now 8mil or whatever isn’t much. But it has emptied the can.
 

So if that results in us being ‘up against the cap’ it doesn’t make sense as a move. You sign Brissett, say right we’re strong enough at QB, make some other contract adjustments or roster moves and attack FA more. Not wildly. But more.
 

That’s how it stands for me now. Started well, we’ve hit the wall. Hopefully we can resurrect some more life into FA which in turn makes the draft less cluttered.

 

I’ll only stop complaining if Risner or Hardman, or ideally both, get brought in 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Est.1974

[philibusters]

4 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Do we want to be the team that consistently converts money?
 

On the surface I like the idea of keeping the books clean as possible, but admit I don’t have the spectrum of knowledge in this area to compare team’s use of converting money versus others who are more conservative and how that translates to consistent success. Setting the  precedent of not converting money seems like good business, would be lying to say I truly know. 
 

Yes, I follow closely enough to know about Saints, Rams, Cowboys, or even Washington back in the day employ this strategy, not convinced it’s a “truth” in the least. I’m not envious of their spending or cap situations in the least. Washington books from my 7min of research on Spottrac compared to other teams looks solid. 
 

Keep the roster churning. With that said, winning must take place, so in now way saying either way is right or wrong. 

 

To me if you have a 2 or 3 year window where you are a legit contender you should be as aggressive as possible in regards to the cap.  If you are not in window like that, I prefer our current somewhat conservative strategy.   

[Command The 414]

8 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

First up I like Brissett and what he’s going to add. Slight issue for me is that we say we are rolling with Howell, then use considerable cap space, in context, on another QB for competition. Now 8mil or whatever isn’t much. But it has emptied the can.
 

So if that results in us being ‘up against the cap’ it doesn’t make sense as a move. You sign Brissett, say right we’re strong enough at QB, make some other contract adjustments or roster moves and attack FA more. Not wildly. But more.
 

That’s how it stands for me now. Started well, we’ve hit the wall. Hopefully we can resurrect some more life into FA which in turn makes the draft less cluttered.

 

I’ll only stop complaining if Risner or Hardman, or ideally both, get brought in 

I've been with you on the Risner front from the beginning, as you stated brings some toughness and hard nosed fire that I think a OL should bring and unless he goes somewhere else I'll continue to want him here,  but I'm not liking the Brissett move 1 bit, to me with the amount we gave him he's here for the starting gig and I'm sorry stats and eye ball test I just think he's no more then servicable but he isn't going to carry a team regardless of the talent around him to the playoffs, he's no more then a high caliber back up...just my opinion, I would have rather had Dalton who actually was cheaper but yet got a extra yr which would have been fine too imho, shoot I think as bad as he is I would have taken Mariota over Brissett.

[CommDownMan]

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

Big nickel and the evolution of the off the ball linebacker is a thing league wide.

An off ball linebacker isn't a defensive lineman, so I don't follow what this statement has to do with mine. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by CommDownMan

[lovemaskins]

49 minutes ago, Die Hard said:

I’d argue that this is now 2 off seasons where Rivera is on the hot seat - the only reason why we wasn’t canned this off-season is because of ownership circumstances - and there’s a lack of urgency again.

 

Doesnt seem to be all in. 
 

In a division with 3 pretty strong teams. 

 

Another lame duck season.
 

 

May be on the hot seat, but not because he's been a poor coach.  

 

Cusp of playoffs each year, good roster, good player development, much improved culture, with poor facilities, no quarterback, and the troll upstairs.  Not sure anyone could've done better...

[Skinsinparadise]

I got the impression listening to Keim that a LB is still likely in FA. I think they are done on the O line in FA but still plan to be aggressive in the draft 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

33 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

To me if you have a 2 or 3 year window where you are a legit contender you should be as aggressive as possible in regards to the cap.  If you are not in window like that, I prefer our current somewhat conservative strategy.   

On the surface this makes sense and I once accepted this as truth, but not sure if I ever want Washington to go all out at the cost of long term success. Have the Patriots, Steelers, Packers, Ravens, or Chiefs employed this strategy over last 20 or so years (I really don’t know)? These are the teams that come to mind that have sustained success and what I’d want Washington to achieve. Less inclined to follow the Saints, Bucs, or Rams model. 
 

Im still working this through a bit and haven’t reached any sort of philosophical conclusion. 

[Wyvern]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I got the impression listening to Keim that a LB is still likely in FA. I think they are done on the O line in FA but still plan to be aggressive in the draft 

I hope so, but the pickings are very slim now.  And looking at the Seattle games, they were pulling Barton out on 3rd downs and passing downs.  He looks like a 2-down LB.

 

Too bad Washington didn't try to sign Chargers FA LB Drue Tranquill. (He was about the best of the remaining LB'ers left now,  because Wagner will be too expensive and Browns' LB Walker may not be the same after his injury.)

 

 

[MrJL]

3 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

I hope so, but the pickings are very slim now.  And looking at the Seattle games, they were pulling Barton out on 3rd downs and passing downs.  He looks like a 2-down LB.

 

Too bad Washington didn't try to sign Chargers FA LB Drue Tranquill. (He was about the best of the remaining LB'ers left now,  because Wagner will be too expensive and Browns' LB Walker may not be the same after his injury.)

 

 

from what I'd heard that was what they used to do, but that changed this year

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

A change of scenery while playing alongside better players might be fruitful for both. He was selected 11th overall in 2019 for a reason.  

 

He was one of the examples of "could work out at OT, but could be even better at Guard". But he doesn't want to be a Guard, or a RT. Just a LT. And he's been generally average, except for last year where he got lit up in pass pro.

 

I think he's in for a rude awakening about his value and where he should be playing.

[Wyvern]

1 hour ago, MrJL said:

from what I'd heard that was what they used to do, but that changed this year

Sorry, I was looking at Seattle vs. 49ers replay (full game) that took place right near the end of the 2022-2023 season.  I was surprised to see Barton was not on the field regularly on 3rd down, especially if it was a passing situation

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Wyvern said:

I hope so, but the pickings are very slim now.  And looking at the Seattle games, they were pulling Barton out on 3rd downs and passing downs.  He looks like a 2-down LB.

 

Too bad Washington didn't try to sign Chargers FA LB Drue Tranquill. (He was about the best of the remaining LB'ers left now,  because Wagner will be too expensive and Browns' LB Walker may not be the same after his injury.)

 

 

I haven’t studied Barton yet aside from one college game but as a former safety  with a decent PFF score for coverage and with his size and athleticism, I’d think he can be more than a 2 down LB but will see.

 

I liked that he said in his interview with our media that he accedes he was up and down when he started last season but in the 2nd half the light came on for him and the game slowed down, 

 

That thought matches Logan Paulsen’s take after studying him and also matched his PFF scores which went noticeably up in the 2nd half of the season. 

 

I mentioned yesterday Keim said they were interested in Tranquill. An article came out today that there were 5 teams chasing him but he elected to go to KC, I suspect we were one of those teams 

 

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, CommDownMan said:

An off ball linebacker isn't a defensive lineman, so I don't follow what this statement has to do with mine. 

When we go with 5 defensive lineman the 5th lineman often replaces an off ball linebacker. Teams are replacing off ball linebackers with safeties who walk down or sometimes with an extra D’line depending on matchups and down and distance. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Koolblue13]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I was definitely a Cole supporter, but I'm glad he is gone. As long as it's addressed and Barton doesn't.

[tmandoug1]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I was definitely a Cole supporter, but I'm glad he is gone. As long as it's addressed and Barton doesn't.

I don't understand this statement......you liked him but your glad he is gone? He was our best LB right? Don't get the logic..but I'm still learning.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

I don't understand this statement......you liked him but your glad he is gone? He was our best LB right? Don't get the logic..but I'm still learning.

He was a flawed try hard with limited skill and played beyond his ability and a crowd favorite, but I want a legit bad ass next to Davis, who has turned into a legit bad ass.

 

The 49ers defense is a great example. They have probably the best ILB right now and Greenlaw next to him. We have the Greenlaw in Davis, but Holcomb was no Fred Warner.

[Conn]

12 minutes ago, tmandoug1 said:

I don't understand this statement......you liked him but your glad he is gone? He was our best LB right? Don't get the logic..but I'm still learning.

Nah, by the end of the season Davis was definitely our best LB and imo it wasn’t close. Holcomb was replacement level which on the surface seems fine, but given the way LB’s can be exploited in today’s game, I think being average as an off ball LB gives much less return on value than an average player at most other positions, if that makes sense.