Sam's Club: The Legend of Samuel Howell Thread

[Dan T.]

On 1/8/2023 at 9:06 PM, Redd said:

Allen is a big guy. Howell is not.

 

On 1/9/2023 at 12:26 AM, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Let’s relax there. Josh Allen is a tank. Sam is slightly bigger than Heinicke 

 

Josh Allen is 6' 5" vs. Sam Howell at 6' 1".  But Sam is thicc. 220 pounds.  He's built like R2D2.

 

~~~

 

On 1/9/2023 at 2:10 AM, Destino said:

The real temptation with Sam as QB1 is freeing up a ton of salary by starting a rookie contract at QB.  

Then again if a new owner comes in there’s no telling what they’d do.  

 

That's a huge advantage, not sinking $18 to $30 million into one position.  You can sign or retain lots of parts with that saved money

 

~~~

On 1/9/2023 at 10:01 AM, Califan007 The Constipated said:

"Sam's Club"?...

 

 

 

Isn't that like Costco? lol....He deserves better.

 

Costco is like DisneyWorld for consumers.  A destination with lots of surprises around every corner.

[veteranskinsfan]

On 1/9/2023 at 10:45 PM, Wyvern said:

This is not about any value judgement of the merits of Sam Howell.

 

Rather I was wondering whether Sam was able to retrieve the ball he threw to McLaurin for the TD during the Washington's first possession of the 1st quarter of the Washington-Dallas game.  As I recall, it looked like Terry tossed that ball off into the stands, as part of his own TD celebration.

 

I ask, because it seems like that ball would have some sentimental value to Howell because:

1.  That was Howell's first pass in his first NFL start

2.  It was also his first completed pass.

3.  It was also his first TD pass.

 

I hope they were able to retrieve the ball -- because all three of those things don't happen on the same ball for a rookie QB. So I was really surprised when McLaurin tossed the ball up into the stands.  I hope they can somehow get THAT ball back to Howell.

 

Likewise, a QB's first rushing TD is often given back to the player for his memento cabinet.  Not sure what happened there.

 

Maybe Terry knew Howell doesn't collect those kind of "momento footballs" to commemorate his achievements.   If that's the case then McLaurin gave some random fan got a very nice souvenir that could appreciate in value should Howell become a significant starting QB for Washington.

I read in one of the newspapers that they were able to get the ball back for Howell.

[Wyndorf25]

Ok. I do not want to sound like I'm caught up in the moment, but hear me out...

 

I'm on board with the plan of making Howell the QB1 or at least giving him an honest shot to compete with an experienced journeyman like Brissett or even a mid-round rookie QB next year. The main reason is if they go with this plan, it will preclude them from throwing all of their assets and draft capital at the QB position and allow for the team to bolster other areas of the team--like the O-line and the LB position, primarily.

 

I'm working under the assumption guys like Aaron Rogers and Tom Brady are not realistically attainable. So why not imitate the Eagles' plan with Hurts? Look, I'm not saying Howell is even close to the talent of Hurts. However, if he is surrounded with decent playmakers (and he would be) and a fortified O-line and a nasty defense (this plan may even allow for Payne to come back), I believe he could succeed and the team would be in a good spot to compete for a number of years. I also think moving forward with a competent QB on a rookie deal for the next few years is the sound financial move as opposed to "swinging for the fences" and overpaying for a guy like Carr.

 

Look, I don't want to see this team to spin its wheels chasing the QB position any longer. All it has done is produce never-ending mediocrity. Id rather ride or die with a promising young QB that if he pans out--this is a 10-win playoff team. And if not, risk the bottom out year and go find a QB in 2024. Playing Howell in 2023 is the only real way to find out though and it would give him the best opportunity to succeed. 

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, Wyndorf25 said:

Ok. I do not want to sound like I'm caught up in the moment, but hear me out...

 

I'm on board with the plan of making Howell the QB1 or at least giving him an honest shot to compete with an experienced journeyman like Brissett or even a mid-round rookie QB next year. The main reason is if they go with this plan, it will preclude them from throwing all of their assets and draft capital at the QB position and allow for the team to bolster other areas of the team--like the O-line and the LB position, primarily.

 

I'm working under the assumption guys like Aaron Rogers and Tom Brady are not realistically attainable. So why not imitate the Eagles' plan with Hurts? Look, I'm not saying Howell is even close to the talent of Hurts. However, if he is surrounded with decent playmakers (and he would be) and a fortified O-line and a nasty defense (this plan may even allow for Payne to come back), I believe he could succeed and the team would be in a good spot to compete for a number of years. I also think moving forward with a competent QB on a rookie deal for the next few years is the sound financial move as opposed to "swinging for the fences" and overpaying for a guy like Carr.

 

Look, I don't want to see this team to spin its wheels chasing the QB position any longer. All it has done is produce never-ending mediocrity. Id rather ride or die with a promising young QB that if he pans out--this is a 10-win playoff team. And if not, risk the bottom out year and go find a QB in 2024. Playing Howell in 2023 is the only real way to find out though and it would give him the best opportunity to succeed. 

That would be the smart move for this off season. Roll with Howell and invest your resources to building up the team around him.

 

But Rivera knows he's in a must win situation with a new owner coming in. Is he going to bank on a 5th rounder with only one game of experience?

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

That would be the smart move for this off season. Roll with Howell and invest your resources to building up the team around him.

 

But Rivera knows he's in a must win situation with a new owner coming in. Is he going to bank on a 5th rounder with only one game of experience?

You’re right that this is the quandary for Ron.

 

My hope is that a Howell-Brissett QB room would provide a high enough floor for them to feel comfortable getting to at least 10 wins, especially considering the cap space that could be allocated elsewhere (Payne and Curl extensions for example).

[Wyndorf25]

12 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

That would be the smart move for this off season. Roll with Howell and invest your resources to building up the team around him.

 

But Rivera knows he's in a must win situation with a new owner coming in. Is he going to bank on a 5th rounder with only one game of experience?

 

That's a solid point from Rivera's position, but my point is that the alternative isn't very appealing either and wouldn't likely result in any progress.

[KDawg]

The focus on where Howell was drafted is the biggest mistake anyone can make.

[Warhead36]

My hope is that if we do roll with Howell, we commit to him right away. If I'm Rivera I come out at the official start of the off season and tell the world: "Sam Howell is our starting QB for 2023." Get him prepped and ready from the get go. None of this "we're gonna have a competition in camp" non sense or anything like that. Then start building up the team around him. Give him a real shot to show his stuff.

[bearrock]

I would be fine with putting the resources in the OL and the rest of the team and then riding with Howell for 2023 (short of an instant top tier QB walking in the door).  We'll see what we have in Howell and if he sucks, we'll have a high pick in 2024 draft.  That seems better than the perpetual mediocrity of mid teens pick.

[srtman04]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The focus on where Howell was drafted is the biggest mistake anyone can make.

 

Right....*cough* Tom Brady anyone????  

[Thirtyfive2seven]

On 1/8/2023 at 11:39 PM, skins4ever28 said:

Wentz probably looks great in practice. Look how he did

I actually remember reading all kinds of reports about how Awful Wentz looked in practice.  He was inaccurate and threw picks if I remember correctly.  It's almost as if, oh I don't know, the coaching staff KNEW Wentz sucked but had to trot his ass out there because of the draft picks and salary they gave up in order to get him....

[Thirtyfive2seven]

19 minutes ago, bearrock said:

I would be fine with putting the resources in the OL and the rest of the team and then riding with Howell for 2023 (short of an instant top tier QB walking in the door).  We'll see what we have in Howell and if he sucks, we'll have a high pick in 2024 draft.  That seems better than the perpetual mediocrity of mid teens pick.

I am 100% about this, but I don't think the coaching staff has that luxury if the team is sold because the new owners may want to go all Dan Snyder and fire the staff.  It would be smart for the coaching staff to use this approach and it would also be smart for new ownership to give the staff time before cleaning house but who knows.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

46 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The focus on where Howell was drafted is the biggest mistake anyone can make.

 

While I agree for the most part, does that also go hand-in-hand with putting the focus on where a QB will be drafted? Because we put a ****-ton of focus on that as fans.

 

"We have to draft a QB in the top 10" before the draft, turns into "Where the QB was drafted doesn't matter" after it lol...

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

While I agree for the most part, does that also go hand-in-hand with putting the focus on where a QB will be drafted? Because we put a ****-ton of focus on that as fans.

 

"We have to draft a QB in the top 10" before the draft, turns into "Where the QB was drafted doesn't matter" after it lol...

Sometimes. 
 

There is nuance, Howell isn’t a typical fifth rounder and had no business going that late. So continually calling him one is misrepresenting the reality in who he is as a player even if his actual draft shot was in the 5th.

[srtman04]

7 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

 

While I agree for the most part, does that also go hand-in-hand with putting the focus on where a QB will be drafted? Because we put a ****-ton of focus on that as fans.

 

"We have to draft a QB in the top 10" before the draft, turns into "Where the QB was drafted doesn't matter" after it lol...

 

We got EXTREMELY LUCKY drafting him in the 5th round.   I absolutely we believe we have a GEM in the making here,  he just needs the opportunity.   His first NFL game was a convincing WIN over our most hated divisional rival, who actually had something to play for.  You can't sweep that under the rug and pretend it didn't happen.....

[Thirtyfive2seven]

5 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

 

  You can't sweep that under the rug and pretend it didn't happen.....

100% true. Look at how TH played against Dallas over the past couple of seasons.  Or even Wentz.  No one could accomplish much against them.  Their defense is pretty dang good.  Howell played very well.  Obviously it isn't a big enough sample but it was promising and that's a lot considering what we have had to go with recently.  I just worry that Ron won't hire an OC who will play to the teams strengths.  Why the hell did he say he wants a Run heavy offense? It sounds like he's channeling joe Gibbs from 1982

[skinsfan4128]

27 minutes ago, Thirtyfive2seven said:

100% true. Look at how TH played against Dallas over the past couple of seasons.  Or even Wentz.  No one could accomplish much against them.  Their defense is pretty dang good.  Howell played very well.  Obviously it isn't a big enough sample but it was promising and that's a lot considering what we have had to go with recently.  I just worry that Ron won't hire an OC who will play to the teams strengths.  Why the hell did he say he wants a Run heavy offense? It sounds like he's channeling joe Gibbs from 1982

Like many in here have astutely pointed out, Ron is in a precarious position as to what he needs to do.

 

Does he do what's best for the team? Or does he do what's best for him (and his coaching staff)? 

 

And just for the record, I don't condemn him for having that conundrum on his hands. Very few HC positions in the NFL.  And although I do think he's a good person, everyone practices CYA. It's human nature.

 

Hopefully there is a neutral spot he can find. But I doubt it.

 

HTTR!

[CommanderInTheRye]

Tired of all this sass talk on my boy big boss man Sam!

 

Hey, don't none of you fools forget that Sammy is the polar opposite of "Wince" when it comes to having grit in the face of the enemy.

 

That boy packing some serious nuts...

 

 

Sam Howell and his nuts head to morning practice during training camp. 

 

 

Now put that in your tea bag and suck it you degenerate nasty talking ingrates!

[CapsSkins]

I’m going to temper some of the enthusiasm for Howell and point out that according to Logan Paulsen, Turner put on training wheels for Sam such that he didn’t have to read the defense against Dallas. Many of the plays were Sam looking at one route/option and making the decision.

 

Now, that doesn’t mean he can’t read a defense (now or in the future). It doesn’t take away from what he did show: arm strength, touch, mobility, quick release, short memory, etc.

 

But it does underscore that there’s still significant uncertainty with Sam, especially as teams get more tape on him.

 

All that said, I still believe he ought to be the starter next year so we can figure out whether he can be the guy. But I disagree with anointing him QB1 in the offseason. Let him compete with a Brissett/Mariota-type and start the guy who gives the team the best shot to win. The other players in the locker room will know who that is, btw. They always know.

[Est.1974]

Takes a bit longer to type but maybe we should say that Howell was drafted with the first pick after the fourth round.

 

Lets drop all reference to the fifth.

[mistertim]

A situation like Howell doesn't happen very often. He was widely regarded as being a likely top 10 or top 5 pick after his 2020 season at UNC. But then he basically lost every offensive weapon he had and his OL completely broke down, so he had to end up putting the team on his back by using his legs a ton in 2021, which led to his passing stats dropping some (though they were still pretty decent). Even with that it's still absolutely wild IMO that he fell as far as he did. I didn't think he'd make it past the 2nd round. He's a 1st round talent who, by a combination of rando factors, fell all the way to the 5th.

[Bifflog]

1 hour ago, skinsfan4128 said:

Like many in here have astutely pointed out, Ron is in a precarious position as to what he needs to do.

 

Does he do what's best for the team? Or does he do what's best for him (and his coaching staff)?

 

I actually think they are one in the same this time around.

 

The best case in the world Ron can make for himself is to go be a playoff team with a QB on a rookie deal.  Ownership changing is happening, and the result of that is that spending will be minimal.  Every dollar that can be spent should be done so with the idea that Howell is Ron's ticket to have a chance to stay.  Good for Ron, good for us because we don't want a lame duck regime spending money on a free agent QB.

 

I don't think there's any QB move that Ron would be allowed to make that has a chance of saving him besides going all in on Sam and hoping for the best.

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, Bifflog said:

 

I actually think they are one in the same this time around.

 

The best case in the world Ron can make for himself is to go be a playoff team with a QB on a rookie deal.  Ownership changing is happening, and the result of that is that spending will be minimal.  Every dollar that can be spent should be done so with the idea that Howell is Ron's ticket to have a chance to stay.  Good for Ron, good for us because we don't want a lame duck regime spending money on a free agent QB.

 

I don't think there's any QB move that Ron would be allowed to make that has a chance of saving him besides going all in on Sam and hoping for the best.

 

If Brady were willing to come here, that would be Ron’s best move/chance. But I think the chances are less than 50%.

 

Most likely, Howell + a Brissett-type will be the best option. Carr is not coming here, Lamar will be too expensive, and the other guys are JAGs.

[Bifflog]

3 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

If Brady were willing to come here, that would be Ron’s best move/chance. But I think the chances are less than 50%.

 

 

I don't think we're in play for this type of move right now.  But we will be once the new ownership is in place, especially if it's of the celebrity variety.  People better get used to the lights being on, I have a feeling this next era will not be about hiding-while-trying-to-be-sneaky-good that a lot of people have come to expect as the only route to success for this franchise.  It's gonna get loud.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Bifflog

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, Bifflog said:

 

I don't think we're in play for this type of move right now.  But we will be once the new ownership is in place, especially if it's of the celebrity variety.  People better get used to the lights being on, I have a feeling this next era will not be about hiding-while-trying-to-be-sneaky-good that a lot of people have come to expect as the only route to success for this franchise.  It's gonna get loud.

 

Depending on where the deal is, Bezos/Jay Z could easily be back-channeling with Brady (and communicating with Ron).

 

I have no idea. But the timing is tight enough that it could go either way.

 

For Tom, we have great pass-catchers, good backs, a great defense, in a weak conference, and are almost assuredly going to revamp the O Line. OC vacancy means he can be consulted on who he wants to work with. With proper assurances on new ownership, it’s as good a situation for Tom to “win now” as any. Especially since he won’t cost $40M and will leave enough room to sign Payne.

 

Not that it matters, but I believe I was the first to float Brady potentially coming here with new ownership months ago and took some ridicule for the suggestion. I continue to believe it’s more likely than most people think, though I’m not ready to say it’s probable.