Was Replacing Kevin O'Connell with Scott Turner at OC a Mistake???

[Califan007 The Constipated]

We’re people here impressed with McConnell before going to the Rams? I can’t remember.

[VirginiaVibes]

6 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

We’re people here impressed with McConnell before going to the Rams? I can’t remember.

 

I was one of the ones really hoping he would stay. Now it was basically just because of these two games:

 

 

But I saw a lot of potential in the offense when he started calling plays 

[method man]

34 minutes ago, VirginiaVibes said:

 

KOC was not the head coach of the Rams. 

Many FOs listen to position coaches and the Rams are such an organization

[JSSkinz]

O'Connell got a head coaching position and he doesn't even call the plays as a coordinator, seems crazy.

Edited February 19, 2022 by JSSkinz

[SoCalSkins]

1 hour ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

We’re people here impressed with McConnell before going to the Rams? I can’t remember.

Yes. So many people here love KOC. Now that he’s bigger and more prominent they love him more. 

[Jericho]

My short answer here is I don't care.

 

Longer answer is that I have no idea if Kevin O'Connell is even a good coach. Although I think he did fine here, it's not like he came across as some prodigy. I'm also not entirely clear how much Kevin O'Connell wanted to be here when Rivera took over. Which certainly has to be a factor for Rivera and may make some of the argument of "letting him go" moot. And now with McVay, O'Connell wasn't even calling plays despite nominally being named an offensive coordinator. He mostly seems to be getting some of the reflected glory of McVay. Which isn't unusual in the NFL. How many Bill Belichick assistants got head jobs hoping they were even a fraction of Belichick? Did any of them work out? But regardless if O'Connell if some prodigy, keeping him over Turner wasn't going to prevent anyone from hiring him as a head coach anyway. So I don't think it matters. O'Connell was going to leave one way or another.

[skinfan2k]

Look at the trash Turner has.  Any OC will look good when you have a top 15 qb, aka Kirk or Stafford. 

[Riggo-toni]

I was not particularly impressed with KOC, and didn't get the outcry when he left.  If he turns out to be a competent HC, I think it will have more to do with the time he spent under McVay than anything he learned here, so I don't see him being a world beater if he had remained here, whereas I was very high on McVay and upset he left.

Bienemy is passed over for coaching because Reid calls the plays, but KOC gets swooped up because McVay calls the plays, but ...

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

I was not particularly impressed with KOC, and didn't get the outcry when he left.  If he turns out to be a competent HC, I think it will have more to do with the time he spent under McVay than anything he learned here, so I don't see him being a world beater if he had remained here, whereas I was very high on McVay and upset he left.

Bienemy is passed over for coaching because Reid calls the plays, but KOC gets swooped up because McVay calls the plays, but ...

I know next to nothing about this, but I’d have to guess it’s more about O’Connell’s vision, and selling that vision (or maybe just selling himself) with fairly impressive communication and charisma.

[SoCalSkins]

16 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I know next to nothing about this, but I’d have to guess it’s more about O’Connell’s vision, and selling that vision (or maybe just selling himself) with fairly impressive communication and charisma.

He sold himself so well he beat out Harbaugh. Pretty impressive.
 

If coaching doesn’t work out he can always oversee number retirement ceremonies and crest updates for the Commanders. 

[Darth Tater]

4 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

Look at the trash Turner has.  Any OC will look good when you have a top 15 qb, aka Kirk or Stafford. 

Thing is, it is highly likely that Turner will not be here after 2023. On the positive side, if the team does enough to save Ron's job, Turner will probably be a HC candidate. On the negative side, we don't do at least the minimums and Ron is not here (new coach will probably bring in a his OC) or Ron lets go Turner as a scapegoat. If we get a new owner, good chance that unless Ron has a very good year (which means that Turner will likely have HC options anyway), we see a new coaching staff.

[NickyJ]

1 hour ago, Darth Tater said:

Thing is, it is highly likely that Turner will not be here after 2023. On the positive side, if the team does enough to save Ron's job, Turner will probably be a HC candidate. On the negative side, we don't do at least the minimums and Ron is not here (new coach will probably bring in a his OC) or Ron lets go Turner as a scapegoat. If we get a new owner, good chance that unless Ron has a very good year (which means that Turner will likely have HC options anyway), we see a new coaching staff.

If you think that the staff is going to get fired anyway, would the team really be better off with O'Connell being swept out with Ron instead of Turner being swept out with Ron?

[zCommander]

On 2/18/2022 at 6:39 AM, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

If what your ultimately getting at is about Heinicke.  I do not think KOC would have made Heinicke play better than Turner did. 

 

Actually if KOC was here then no one would have known the name Taylor Heinicke. Turner brought him in to be the emergency QB since he worked with him in Carolina. Therefore, your point is actually moot.

 

As for the topic of the thread- is KOC better than Turner is debatable as well. We know that McVey was calling all the plays anyway. Maybe the Vikings saw something else with KOC as well. 

 

Just a sidebar- Now that KOC is going to be coaching Cousins again we will have to see how it will go. KOC has to take the Vikings to the playoffs and beyond. His first year coaching as the HC is going to be very stressful with that expectation alone. 

[Koolblue13]

Eventually Turner will leave and go on to be a successful HC somewhere and all the people who were ****ing and moaning about how bad he sucked, will suddenly say that we were idiots for letting him walk.

 

Just like the last 4.

[PlayAction]

Many coaches have come here, failed, and had success elsewhere.  We know that coaching quality hasn't been the issue.  Ownership and the front office have been the limiting factors.  I'm fine with Turner.  

[Warhead36]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Eventually Turner will leave and go on to be a successful HC somewhere and all the people who were ****ing and moaning about how bad he sucked, will suddenly say that we were idiots for letting him walk.

 

Just like the last 4.

This is honestly more likely than any other scenario. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 2/18/2022 at 9:01 PM, JSSkinz said:

O'Connell got a head coaching position and he doesn't even call the plays as a coordinator, seems crazy.

Reid was the same I think. I think Reid was actually the Packers QB coach under Holmgrem when he was hired by the eagles.  I could be wrong about that… but I seem to recall it. 

3 hours ago, PlayAction said:

Many coaches have come here, failed, and had success elsewhere.  We know that coaching quality hasn't been the issue.  Ownership and the front office have been the limiting factors.  I'm fine with Turner.  

Some coaches have stunk though.  Spurrier, Zorn and Jay were not good coaches. And none have even gotten an opportunity after they left here which is telling.

[NickyJ]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Some coaches have stunk though.  Spurrier, Zorn and Jay were not good coaches. And none have even gotten an opportunity after they left here which is telling.

To be fair, Jay did get another opportunity with the Jaguars. It was so bad that they fired Doug Marrone for hiring Jay to be an OC. Doug got kicked down the chain so hard, he's coaching O-Line just so he can't pick his own assistant.

[gooseneck]

yes

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Reid was the same I think. I think Reid was actually the Packers QB coach under Holmgrem when he was hired by the eagles.  I could be wrong about that… but I seem to recall it. 

Some coaches have stunk though.  Spurrier, Zorn and Jay were not good coaches. And none have even gotten an opportunity after they left here which is telling.

Well, nfl but Spurrier did go back to college coaching.

[Renegade7]

16 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Eventually Turner will leave and go on to be a successful HC somewhere and all the people who were ****ing and moaning about how bad he sucked, will suddenly say that we were idiots for letting him walk.

 

Just like the last 4.

 

I wouldn't hold by breath on Turner ever leaving to become a HC elsewhere and don't believe that anyone felt this way about Lafeur when he left. 

[NickyJ]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I wouldn't hold by breath on Turner ever leaving to become a HC elsewhere and don't believe that anyone felt this way about Lafeur when he left. 

I wouldn't have felt that way about Kevin O'Connell either, but here we are. Seems like all someone has to do is slap "was an OC at Washington for 5 minutes" on a resume and it makes them an instant head coach candidate.

[Renegade7]

4 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I wouldn't have felt that way about Kevin O'Connell either, but here we are. Seems like all someone has to do is slap "was an OC at Washington for 5 minutes" on a resume and it makes them an instant head coach candidate.

 

I know you are being sarcastic, so I'll counter that it's more like "Coming from McVay's coaching tree" or "being the son of a HOF coach". 

 

Kevin and Matt shot off after being OCs for McVay, I'm convinced Kyle would've gotten a HC gig with or without ever coming to Washington. 

 

All being at Washington at some point is a common denominator, as is all four (except Scott) now being HC, but I don't believe one caused the other.  

 

I know a lot of people (not you specificly) are laughing at this thread as simply revisionist history, hindsight, or jus looking for something else to complain about.  I've even seen comments about parts of the fan base having no ability to judge talent at all. 

 

I'm glad we all had this discussion, regardless of how it turned out.  Looking at the poll and the thread, the people have spoken.

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 hours ago, NickyJ said:

To be fair, Jay did get another opportunity with the Jaguars. It was so bad that they fired Doug Marrone for hiring Jay to be an OC. Doug got kicked down the chain so hard, he's coaching O-Line just so he can't pick his own assistant.

This is true, however, he was out of the league last year, and then interviewed for Carolina this year, and didn't make it.  On his last appearance on Sheehan's podcast, he seemed pretty bitter about it, actually.  Said the opportunities were all going to the younger guys.

 

I really think his best bet is to go to college and coach there as a HC.  I'm pretty sure he could get a gig somewhere, maybe not at one of the big-boys in the power 5 conferences.  It's shocking, maybe time heals wounds, but I am kindof softening on Jay.  I do hope he gets another opportunity to coach again somewhere.  I don't think he is a good NFL head coach, but he might be a good college HC.  It might be more his thing....

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Well, nfl but Spurrier did go back to college coaching.

Yeah, I was talking NFL.  

 

Also to be fair, Zorn got an opportunity as a QB coach again, I think with the Ravens?  I'm not going to look that up, but I think that's right.  But I don't think it lasted long.  

 

As far as Spurrier goes, I think Spurrier thought he was SO good, he would be able to waltz into the NFL, wave his magic Gator wand, bring in his "cheap and available" ex-gators, and revolutionize the NFL without really having to work at it.  

 

And after Osaka, he REALLY thought he was going to be bigger than Bill Walsh.  Then the season started and things started crashing down around him.  I think the biggest slap to the head was when they got blown out by the 49ers in the regular season, and he said something like, "well, it worked in Osaaka, I didn't think it wouldn't work now."  And that's when he realized this whole NFL thing just wasn't for him.