The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Well, first of all we have an owner who won't be here much longer, so I'm sure we're in super frugal mode.

 

Second, two 1st round picks + what will likely be a fully guaranteed $250+ million contract for a running QB who's only a so-so passer and who is still recovering from a knee injury is ridiculous IMO. It would also be a little different if Jackson had been consistently great. Instead he had one elite year and then has more or less steadily declined since then.

 

Also, which QBs were we willing to give up that amount of compensation for? If I'm giving up two 1sts and $250+ million guaranteed that dude better be at least a top 5 QB (especially passer) in the NFL. Most rank Jackson as fringe top 10 these days. Some have him more in the teens.

Hey yeh, it does look extremely unlikely. It’s just a shame cause if this was last year we’d be all in. 
 

As I said two first round picks isn’t the deterrent here, especially if one of those is #16. $250m fully guaranteed is the mammoth risk, some will be for and some will be against and I understand both sides, personally I’d risk it, we’ve not had a top QB in so long it sure would be nice to have a QB that can take over games and win them rather than having to cover all of their deficiencies.

 

The eyes don’t lie the guy is elite, plus he’d have the best set of weapons he’s ever had.

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

Hey yeh, it does look extremely unlikely. It’s just a shame cause if this was last year we’d be all in. 
 

As I said two first round picks isn’t the deterrent here, especially if one of those is #16. $250m fully guaranteed is the mammoth risk, some will be for and some will be against and I understand both sides, personally I’d risk it, we’ve not had a top QB in so long it sure would be nice to have a QB that can take over games and win them rather than having to cover all of their deficiencies.

 

The eyes don’t lie the guy is elite, plus he’d have the best set of weapons he’s ever had.

 

Most sports analysts and writers don't agree with you that he's elite anymore; he's most often ranked as a fringe top 10 guy, sometimes lower. Definitely not a top 5 or 3 QB. His legs are his main weapon and not only is he coming off of a pretty serious knee injury, but running QBs haven't ever really shown themselves to have very long shelf lives. Or at the very least they tend to only have one or maybe two elite years in them (Cam for example).

 

Sure, he can make electric plays, can be really fun to watch, and can be an elite runner. But that's not going to last him for very long IMO. If he were an elite passer on top of it (ala Mahomes, Allen, or (in his prime) Wilson, for example) then absolutely he'd be worth it, because then once he loses a couple steps and his running isn't the weapon it once was, he can still kill teams as a pocket passer. As it is, he's not an elite pocket passer, so once his legs aren't that much of a threat, he's not really going to scare many people from the pocket.

 

 

[El Mexican]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

They were always off the table. They are going to go with Howell and a journeyman backup. Maybe it's the guy from last year. Maybe it's Shane Buchele. Maybe it's Minshew.

 

We are on a budget.

 

Though, I could see a world where Snyder gets off his yacht, walks into the office, demands we pay Lamar... and then if we do well after he leaves (I don't think Lamar fixes us) he can brag for the rest of his life that we all need to thank him.

 

Keep your gifts, sir. Just go. 

 

I'm big on Howell. He showed some great flashes in the season finale vs. the Cowboys.

RR made the right choice by naming him the starter before the FA season and draft craziness.

 

I really don't see our decision makers taking yet another QB in the higher part of the draft. There are other key positions to fill.

 

That was the rationale behind my question on the FA QBs.

 

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by El Mexican
Clarity

[slinky]

25 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

RR made the right choice by naming him the starter before the FA season and draft craziness.

Didn't they backtrack on this and said he is only QB1 and not the starter and needs to earn the starter position.

[Est.1974]

Bears to trade out of the first pick in the draft for a haul of picks. Then they trade Fields

Then they acquire Jackson using up some of that 100mil in cap space they have. Ravens won’t be able to match the deal on offer. 
 

Maybe.

 

[FootballZombie]

Giants did what they needed to do.

 

With or without void years, Jones cap hit wont get crazy this year or next. In 2 years they will be able to play with the contract even further if they desire or need to.

Its fun to poke at the Giants for paying Jones big money but peeps are way to wrapped up in AAV. It does not matter at all.

 

Dak signed a 4 year 160 Mil deal 2 years ago. His Cap hits have been 17 and 19 mil. He is set for a whopping 50 Mil hit this year, but I think its more likely than not he restructures.

 

Saquan was a good move too.

Tagging RBs is cheap so they will get to ride out Barkleys limited RB window without overly committing and making the same mistake as Dallas w/ Zeke.

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Smart move. They're gonna get a draft haul for him and someone else can pick up the fully guaranteed $250 million deal for a running QB coming off of a leg injury. 

 

Two firsts for Jackson is cheap. They probably went this route to have someone else hammer out what he’s prepared to sign for and then they can decide if they want to match. Have someone else do the heavy lifting on the negotiations - always the risk that someone else structures a deal that’s ridiculous, but in that case they just take the two first round picks and move on.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[method man]

Galdi had Heinicke's college coach Bobby Wilder on his pod today. A lot of interesting nuggets to come out of it.

 

As has been hinted by folks with sources on this board, it's doubtful he comes back here. Wilder made it clear that Scott Turner is the guy that Heinicke is loyal too and the relationship with Ron soured with the benching. Wilder also admitted that Heinicke smartly begged out of the Cowboys game due to not having guaranteed money going into FA. He reaffirmed that Heinicke thinks the world of Howell. An interesting nugget is that Howell is a guy who knows how to work a locker room - what's been reported on Howell is that he is a quiet guy so this is a major plus in his favor

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Two firsts for Jackson is cheap. They probably went this route to have someone else hammer out what he’s prepared to sign for and then they can decide if they want to match. Have someone else do the heavy lifting on the negotiations - always the risk that someone else structures a deal that’s ridiculous, but in that case they just take the two first round picks and move on.

 

I agree that it does make sense to let other teams do the heavy lifting. 

 

That being said, I wouldn't be positive that two 1sts for Jackson is cheap. It all depends on whether he ever gets back to his 2019 form. If he does, and can stay at or near that level, it's absolutely worth it.

 

But that was 4 seasons ago and he hasn't reached that level since. His play over the last couple of years has mostly been middle of the pack. If it stays that way, and especially if his knee injury continues to nag him, then no way would it be worth it. Especially considering the enormous fully guaranteed contract he's also apparently looking for.

 

Whoever pulls the trigger on him is taking a pretty huge gamble. Could pay off big time, could completely bite them in the ass and hamstring them for years to come.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, method man said:

 

 

As has been hinted by folks with sources on this board, it's doubtful he comes back here. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[MartinC]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I agree that it does make sense to let other teams do the heavy lifting. 

 

That being said, I wouldn't be positive that two 1sts for Jackson is cheap. It all depends on whether he ever gets back to his 2019 form. If he does, and can stay at or near that level, it's absolutely worth it.

 

But that was 4 seasons ago and he hasn't reached that level since. His play over the last couple of years has mostly been middle of the pack. If it stays that way, and especially if his knee injury continues to nag him, then no way would it be worth it. Especially considering the enormous fully guaranteed contract he's also apparently looking for.

 

Whoever pulls the trigger on him is taking a pretty huge gamble. Could pay off big time, could completely bite them in the ass and hamstring them for years to come.

 

It’s for sure a gamble - but teams have seen Jackson play at an All Pro level and he’s 26. The gamble with Jackson is the contract not the picks IMO.

[CapsSkins]

Sounds like Heinicke likely to be Raiders backup with Scott there?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[No Nonsense]

Ask this question. Does Lamar make Washington a legitimate threat to win the NFC? If the answer is yes, then how can pursuing Lamar be a hard "NO?"

[NewCliche21]

Just now, No Nonsense said:

Ask this question. Does Lamar make Washington a legitimate threat to win the NFC? If the answer is yes, then how can pursuing Lamar be a hard "NO?"

 

If you could spend $100 to achieve a goal, then why wouldn't you?

Because I would rather spend $20 then $15 then $30 then $35 to make us a legitimate threat and not have my eggs all in one basket. And still have $10.

[Jumbo]

30 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Sounds like Heinicke likely to be Raiders backup with Scott there?

 

 

It's quite possible TH will need to go to a park bench as a backup to sis's couch.

 

 

oooooooooooooo badbadbadjumbo 😁😈

[No Nonsense]

4 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

If you could spend $100 to achieve a goal, then why wouldn't you?

Because I would rather spend $20 then $15 then $30 then $35 to make us a legitimate threat and not have my eggs all in one basket. And still have $10.

How bad do you want to win? It's been proven, it's almost impossible to win it all without an elite QB. 

[samy316]

6 minutes ago, No Nonsense said:

How bad do you want to win? It's been proven, it's almost impossible to win it all without an elite QB. 

 

This.  I'd rather get the sure thing with Jackson, then wait around on the "what if" with Howell.  Jackson is still 26 years old.  If he were to sign a 4 year deal, he'll be 30 by the time that deal is up.  The NFC is wide open for the taking.  A QB like Lamar would push us into contenders in the NFC landscape.  He might be the best QB in the NFC, wherever he goes.  2 1st Rd. Picks might be worth it.

 

Think about it, we have the weapons that Lamar could only dream of (after what he played with in Baltimore), and we have a pretty damn good defense.  We would need to upgrade our O-Line obviously, but Jackson to Washington would be a great fit.  If Dan weren't selling the team, I think this would almost be a no brainer.  Jackson would definitely be in Burgundy & Gold by the start of FA.  Because we're on a budget, we probably won't make that move.

Edited March 7, 2023 by samy316

[NewCliche21]

1 minute ago, No Nonsense said:

How bad do you want to win? It's been proven, it's almost impossible to win it all without an elite QB. 

 

Yeah, but he's not two firsts and a quarter-billion level elite. I'll take my resources and spend it differently.  I'd argue that there's Mahomes, then a notch down Burrow/Allen, then a half notch down Herbert/Jackson.  I'm not paying that for anyone that isn't Mahomes.

Expensive doesn't mean elite.

1 minute ago, samy316 said:

 

This.  I'd rather get the sure thing with Jackson, then wait around on the "what if" with Howell.  Jackson is still 26 years old.  If he were to sign a 4 year deal, he'll be 30 by the time that deal is up.  The NFC is wide open for the taking.  A QB like Lamar would push us into contenders in the NFC landscape.  He might be the best QB in the NFC, wherever he goes.  2 1st Rd. Picks might be worth it.

 

Not aimed at you, but I'm having flashbacks to whats-his-name, the Denver quarterback who had two Pro Bowls by 25 and people were advocating the exact same thing except not $250M.

This was like -- CUTLER!  That was his name.  Same damn argument 15 years later.

 

Where are people getting this idea that Jackson is other-worldy? He's a running QB who is still recovering form a hurt knee who hasn't won a playoff game with one of the better teams in the league.

[samy316]

9 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Yeah, but he's not two firsts and a quarter-billion level elite. I'll take my resources and spend it differently.  I'd argue that there's Mahomes, then a notch down Burrow/Allen, then a half notch down Herbert/Jackson.  I'm not paying that for anyone that isn't Mahomes.

Expensive doesn't mean elite.

 

Not aimed at you, but I'm having flashbacks to whats-his-name, the Denver quarterback who had two Pro Bowls by 25 and people were advocating the exact same thing except not $250M.

This was like -- CUTLER!  That was his name.  Same damn argument 15 years later.

 

Where are people getting this idea that Jackson is other-worldy? He's a running QB who is still recovering form a hurt knee who hasn't won a playoff game with one of the better teams in the league.

 

Define "better".  Have you seen what he's had to throw to the last 4 years?  Other than Mark Andrews, who on that Ravens team would even be a #2 or #3 receiver on other teams?  Sure, Greg Roman designed a pretty good running attack for Baltimore, but they were easy to contain if you shut down the run.  Ask Ravens fans how "good" the Ravens have been with an offense that is one-dimensional.  Their defense has also fallen off since Lamar's rookie season.  They're not what they once were.   For Lamar to be elite, you need to give him at least one deep threat.  On the Commanders, McLaurin & Dotson would match that need in spades.  Lamar with receivers would definitely be a Top 5 QB.

 

I would also add that we have an adequate running attack as well.  Gibson & B-Rob would work great with Lamar as a running threat.  Our offense would definitely take off if he were the QB here.  The only thing I worry about is how Lamar would function behind our O-Line.  Our Line is worse than Baltimore's line, so we would have to upgrade heavily.

Edited March 7, 2023 by samy316

[Conn]

2 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:

I expect Dan to break the qb market as an fu to the other owners and sign him to a guaranteed 6 year deal which the ravens will have to match. 

lol

 

you “expect” this to happen? You mean you read the same pontificating that we all read from someone who isn’t plugged in, and decided you liked it? 
 

ok

[KDawg]

37 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

This.  I'd rather get the sure thing with Jackson, then wait around on the "what if" with Howell.  Jackson is still 26 years old.  If he were to sign a 4 year deal, he'll be 30 by the time that deal is up.  The NFC is wide open for the taking.  A QB like Lamar would push us into contenders in the NFC landscape.  He might be the best QB in the NFC, wherever he goes.  2 1st Rd. Picks might be worth it.

 

Think about it, we have the weapons that Lamar could only dream of (after what he played with in Baltimore), and we have a pretty damn good defense.  We would need to upgrade our O-Line obviously, but Jackson to Washington would be a great fit.  If Dan weren't selling the team, I think this would almost be a no brainer.  Jackson would definitely be in Burgundy & Gold by the start of FA.  Because we're on a budget, we probably won't make that move.

I don't think Jackson is a sure thing. I especially don't think Jackson is a sure thing without two first rounders in the next two years. 

 

 

Notice he has yet to play a full season in the NFL. 

 

And he wants $250M guaranteed.

 

I'm not sure people grasp what a $250M guaranteed contract + 2 firsts actually makes the team look like for the next 5 years. 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

 

Two firsts for Jackson is cheap. They probably went this route to have someone else hammer out what he’s prepared to sign for and then they can decide if they want to match. Have someone else do the heavy lifting on the negotiations - always the risk that someone else structures a deal that’s ridiculous, but in that case they just take the two first round picks and move on.

I think it’s very possible that most NFL owners have a pretty strong agreement that they will not be setting the expectation that fully guaranteeing huge QB contracts is the future of the league. And the only way for the Ravens to show Lamar Jackson that is to let him explore the market and find out for himself.