The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Renegade7]

28 minutes ago, GoDeep81 said:

Whoever it is, they better not be a primarily mobile QB. Cause this organization will cut their throat forcing them to be a pocket passer, before they adjust their game plan.. 

 

Ya know, Cam was never the same after 2015, likely because the offense they built around his skillset wore him down.  Think our coaching staff is shell-shocked on that? Wouldn't shock me.

[markmills67]

A question about Brandon Sherff, is it possible for us to pick up say 50% of what is left of his franchise Tag, and trade him for a 3rd/4th round pick. Which leaves the other team only paying 50% themselves? 

 

Sorry put this in wrong thread. 

Edited November 1, 2021 by markmills67

[GoDeep81]

33 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

My guess is you're referring to both Griffin and Heineke.

 

Griffin wanted to be "Peyton Manning" and didn't want to be a runner anymore.  After he was cut from here, he had a few opportunities to be a mobile QB elsewhere and stunk there too.

 

Heineke - I kind of wish Turner would just dial up roll out after roll out to just shush the folks up that think Heineke's being held back by the playcalling.

Just referring to Heini. I just wish they'd roll him out once or twice. Hard to deny he has the most success when on the move. 

19 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Ya know, Cam was never the same after 2015, likely because the offense they built around his skillset wore him down.  Think our coaching staff is shell-shocked on that? Wouldn't shock me.

Like I said, better not get a primary mobile guy with this staff. They're either too gun shy or old/outdated to adjust to anything. 

[method man]

15 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

A question about Brandon Sherff, is it possible for us to pick up say 50% of what is left of his franchise Tag, and trade him for a 3rd/4th round pick. Which leaves the other team only paying 50% themselves? 

 

Sorry put this in wrong thread. 

 

This is a great question, because, if this is not possible, he is untradeable. It is going to be tough to trade anyone with a contract of any scale given how much teams had to cram this offseason to get under the cap.

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, GoDeep81 said:

 

Like I said, better not get a primary mobile guy with this staff. They're either too gun shy or old/outdated to adjust to anything. 

 

I wouldn't want a primary mobile QB anyway, think you mean a pocket QB that can run?

[DWinzit]

2 minutes ago, method man said:

 

This is a great question, because, if this is not possible, he is untradeable. It is going to be tough to trade anyone with a contract of any scale given how much teams had to cram this offseason to get under the cap.

Yes, but if it is possible wave fire sale sign high. Bring in a few picks for next year to add building blocks, lordy knows we need them

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Yeah I get Rivera's logic even though I would have made the move myself for a QB and said so in the off season.  The logic was the roster wasn't there yet to give up a lot of picks.  Build the roster and then do it next year.  Keim talked about this a lot in his predraft podcasts.  He suggested if a QB fell in their lap in the draft or close enough to that they'd pounce but he didn't think they'd trade the store for one so he expected the aggressiveness to happen in alll likelihood next year.  

 

So I get Rivera's defiance to an extent.  They had a plan and they are sticking with it.    And that plan included if they didn't get the guy this year, they'd move heaven on earth to get it next year.

 

Where the plan went awry was clearly this

 

A.  The defense which was supposed to take a step up, took a step back.

 

B.  Their FA upgrades didn't work out.  Mostly because of bad luck:  Fitzpatrick-Samuel.  Jackson right now looks like a downgrade from Darby.

 

I think they thought hey if we go 10-7 or even 9-8 with Fitzpatrick and a killer defense and a better supporting cast thanks in part to Samuel, we could talk Wilson or Rodgers into coming here.  I think that gamble backfired in a big way.   So I think now they are stuck with the draft.

 

You got now the backdrop of distaste about this organization because of Dan, that hasn't gone away.  A team that is drawing embarassing home crowds and local TV ratings.  The pickle he's in now is that backdrop around this decision is really intense.  In other words,  i can't recall a juncture in this franchise where there was this level of desperation for this off season and almost all of it is centered on can they get this spot right.

 

I agree with you, RR thought his defense was on the verge of being outstanding and that the additions of Jackson and Davis would help out big time. So why not add Fitz, keep Heinicke and see where they can take you with a dominant defense? He thought Samuel would be a great addition, Logan Thomas will play a bigger role and Gibson will be even better in year 2. On paper this had to be a much improved team.......

Everything has blown up in his face. 

Now, RR has to figure out who to move forward with and who to dump. Scherff, Collins, Bostic and others will surely be gone...The only good news I can think of is that we still have our 1st round picks and we should have a ton of cap space to play with. Who on the defense do we pay moving forward? 

If I'm RR I go the route of Carolina and take an entire draft to address the defense. Without a franchise QB I focus on building the defense as best I can and try and focus on being good at running the football. This is how New England is doing it this year; sound defense with a run first offense. Eventually Mac Jones will get more and more support and he'll start to take over. Belicheck sprinkles in his share of trick plays too to protect his QB from dropping back time and time again while keeping defenses guessing. We do nothing creative to protect TH. 

For QB I continue to turn over every stone possible. I see if Trubisky has learned anything in Buffalo in one of the best offenses in the league. He's on my short list. Other names will pop up but we have to focus on areas where good players are available and strengthening these areas until we find the franchise type QB. 

That Haskins pick has come back to really haunt us....what a shame. 

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, GoDeep81 said:

Just referring to Heini. I just wish they'd roll him out once or twice. Hard to deny he has the most success when on the move. 

Like I said, better not get a primary mobile guy with this staff. They're either too gun shy or old/outdated to adjust to anything. 

They were doing this the first few weeks, but teams realized that if he doesn't have a solid second to plant and throw, the ball will not go 10 yards accurately or with any zip, so you only have to contain him and whoever is running a few yards in front of him downfield.  

[drowland]

34 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

A question about Brandon Sherff, is it possible for us to pick up say 50% of what is left of his franchise Tag, and trade him for a 3rd/4th round pick. Which leaves the other team only paying 50% themselves? 

 

Sorry put this in wrong thread. 

 

We're halfway through the season so I assume we've already paid him half his franchise tag salary for the year.  Wouldn't trade him for anything less then a 3rd since we can get a 3rd rd comp pick for letting him leave in FA.  

[markmills67]

35 minutes ago, drowland said:

 

We're halfway through the season so I assume we've already paid him half his franchise tag salary for the year.  Wouldn't trade him for anything less then a 3rd since we can get a 3rd rd comp pick for letting him leave in FA.  

We only get a 3rd if we don't sign a free agent ourselves to a similar contract that Sherff will get. I would take a 4th now instead of a possible 3rd in 2022

[kingdaddy]

10 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

We only get a 3rd if we don't sign a free agent ourselves to a similar contract that Sherff will get. I would take a 4th now instead of a possible 3rd in 2022

If I'm the Steelers and Scherff is healthy enough to play soon I'm doing that deal. 4th round for Scherff and get him to sign long term. Take one more shot with Ben by adding a pro bowl lineman at the deadline. 

[justice98]

2 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said:

In today’s nfl; QB us the first thing you gave to address. If you draft a QB, he may end up being a bust but you have to address the most important position.

 

 

Ron has to find at least mid term QB solution next year, if he can’t find the long term solution. He has to be competitive, going 8-8/9-8 or he’s done here after 22.

 

I think he was behind the 8 ball having to inherit Haskins.  So then he has to spend the first year punting on QB.  It's hard to find a QB, so you cant spend any years just simply not looking that hard.

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

I agree with you, RR thought his defense was on the verge of being outstanding and that the additions of Jackson and Davis would help out big time. So why not add Fitz, keep Heinicke and see where they can take you with a dominant defense? He thought Samuel would be a great addition, Logan Thomas will play a bigger role and Gibson will be even better in year 2. On paper this had to be a much improved team.......

Everything has blown up in his face. 

Now, RR has to figure out who to move forward with and who to dump. Scherff, Collins, Bostic and others will surely be gone...The only good news I can think of is that we still have our 1st round picks and we should have a ton of cap space to play with. Who on the defense do we pay moving forward? 

If I'm RR I go the route of Carolina and take an entire draft to address the defense. Without a franchise QB I focus on building the defense as best I can and try and focus on being good at running the football. This is how New England is doing it this year; sound defense with a run first offense. Eventually Mac Jones will get more and more support and he'll start to take over. Belicheck sprinkles in his share of trick plays too to protect his QB from dropping back time and time again while keeping defenses guessing. We do nothing creative to protect TH. 

For QB I continue to turn over every stone possible. I see if Trubisky has learned anything in Buffalo in one of the best offenses in the league. He's on my short list. Other names will pop up but we have to focus on areas where good players are available and strengthening these areas until we find the franchise type QB. 

That Haskins pick has come back to really haunt us....what a shame. 

Thing is, Ron will have to win 8-9 games with whatever QB he gets in 22. He doesn't have to make the playoffs in 22 but you have to feel they team Wil breakout in 23. If he goes 7-10 or worse in 22; the Ron era is over. The next coach would b e revamping the roster to his style and he the one to find that long term qb.

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, justice98 said:

 

I think he was behind the 8 ball having to inherit Haskins.  So then he has to spend the first year punting on QB.  It's hard to find a QB, so you cant spend any years just simply not looking that hard.

Big mistake. What Ron should've told Dan; he will give Haskins a shot but he would bring someone in to compete with Haskins for the job. If Dan didn't agree, then he wouldn't take the job.

 

Ron has made missteps from day one and that is why, odds are strong he gets fired after 22.

[kingdaddy]

21 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Thing is, Ron will have to win 8-9 games with whatever QB he gets in 22. He doesn't have to make the playoffs in 22 but you have to feel they team Wil breakout in 23. If he goes 7-10 or worse in 22; the Ron era is over. The next coach would b e revamping the roster to his style and he the one to find that long term qb.

I disagree; I think RR's purpose in the organization is greater than winning football games and that he's gonna have a very long rope. Dan/Tanya can't play musical coaches given all the dysfunction already surrounding the organization. Ron is one of the few beams of light the organization has. I don't know how long his deal is but if it's 5 years he's gonna get 5 years to right this ship. Just my opinion, you may be right but I'd be very surprised if RR is sent packing after 2022. I can see him retiring before being fired in the short term. 

[GoDeep81]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

They were doing this the first few weeks, but teams realized that if he doesn't have a solid second to plant and throw, the ball will not go 10 yards accurately or with any zip, so you only have to contain him and whoever is running a few yards in front of him downfield.  

Teams figured out that our ****ty screen pass years ago and they still try it every series though? lol 

Edited November 1, 2021 by GoDeep81

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

13 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I disagree; I think RR's purpose in the organization is greater than winning football games and that he's gonna have a very long rope. Dan/Tanya can't play musical coaches given all the dysfunction already surrounding the organization. Ron is one of the few beams of light the organization has. I don't know how long his deal is but if it's 5 years he's gonna get 5 years to right this ship. Just my opinion, you may be right but I'd be very surprised if RR is sent packing after 2022. I can see him retiring before being fired in the short term. 

Agreed 100%.

 

We stink, and fans want blood - but Ron is here to stay for more reasons than just coaching football.  He's going to get his shot at drafting a QB and we'll see what happens.

[Koolblue13]

9 minutes ago, GoDeep81 said:

Teams figured out that our ****ty screen pass years ago and they still try it every series though? lol 

Yes, because we are the only team to run a screen pass. It's just an outdated play that only Scott Turner calls.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yes, because we are the only team to run a screen pass. It's just an outdated play that only Scott Turner calls.

Folks act like there is anyone else on earth currently more aware of Heineke's strengths and limitations.  As if we fans know more about how to best use this dude than he does.  Like he's just sitting around dialing up dinks and dunks, and screens, because he just prefers to run those types of plays.

Edited November 1, 2021 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Folks act like there is anyone else on earth currently more aware of Heineke's strengths and limitations.  As if we fans know more about how to best use this dude than he does.  Like he's just sitting around dialing up dinks and dunks, and screens, because he just prefers to run those types of plays.

Turner dialing up a 40 yard hail mary with 20 yards to go was his biggest gaffe. 

[Daniel.redskins]

43 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Big mistake. What Ron should've told Dan; he will give Haskins a shot but he would bring someone in to compete with Haskins for the job. If Dan didn't agree, then he wouldn't take the job.

Yep!  Ron put himself in a position to fail.  Should have never taken the job if he didn't like Haskins.  Should have told Dan if you want me then we are trading Haskins for a second and drafted Herbert.  Having the #2 pick is just too valuable to pass on a top QB.  

[kingdaddy]

Just now, Daniel.redskins said:

Yep!  Ron put himself in a position to fail.  Should have never taken the job if he didn't like Haskins.  Should have told Dan if you want me then we are trading Haskins for a second and drafted Herbert.  Having the #2 pick is just too valuable to pass on a top QB.  

Depends on what RR knew and thought about Haskins at the time he was offered the job. He is on record as saying he regrets not having a competition at the QB position last year so that kind of tells us that he was honoring Dan's request to give DH a chance....I guess? 

Maybe we should've drafted this White kid who led the Jets comeback yesterday?????

Who knows with these QB prospects? It's almost a crapshoot.

[88Comrade2000]

30 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I disagree; I think RR's purpose in the organization is greater than winning football games and that he's gonna have a very long rope. Dan/Tanya can't play musical coaches given all the dysfunction already surrounding the organization. Ron is one of the few beams of light the organization has. I don't know how long his deal is but if it's 5 years he's gonna get 5 years to right this ship. Just my opinion, you may be right but I'd be very surprised if RR is sent packing after 2022. I can see him retiring before being fired in the short term. 

Winning is the only thing. Ron can’t survive another real bad season. We have another season with double digit losses; Dan will conclude he needs to change coaches. Especially, if we need to draft a 

qb in 23. Will Dan really want Rivera making that choice or Will he want decide; he wants an offensive coach making that choice.

[Renegade7]

49 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Winning is the only thing. Ron can’t survive another real bad season. We have another season with double digit losses; Dan will conclude he needs to change coaches. Especially, if we need to draft a 

qb in 23. Will Dan really want Rivera making that choice or Will he want decide; he wants an offensive coach making that choice.

 

Didn't he jus have an offensive coach in Jay and make that decision for him with Haskins?

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Agreed 100%.

 

We stink, and fans want blood - but Ron is here to stay for more reasons than just coaching football.  He's going to get his shot at drafting a QB and we'll see what happens.

 

Yep and I want him to get that shot.  Fans do want blood.  Some in the media, too.  Ron has gone from hero to some to villain.  IMO people need to chill.  Let him try to fix this in the off season.  I notice the same thing going on in Miami, Brian Flores has gone from a franchise changer, culture builder to in one fell swoop being the Village Idiot who is dragging down the franchise.   Finlay had a good point on the radio today which was in his Friday question session, almost half of Ron's questions was about off field crap and when you are dealing with this organization you got to deal with a lot of crap on your plate. 

 

Sometimes some adversity in Chapter 2 so to speak is a learning experience to build from. Personally I think Ron is too smart to be lost about the 101 stuff that some say he's in a fog about.   Dan is almost for sure going to give him this off season and next season to steer this right.  If he's failing after that, then I get the panic. 

 

But I do think some, not all, miss that this isn't old school Dan who can attract a Shanny or even a Rivera type again -- we likely are headed for a retread who is out of the NFL or a coordinator that no one else wants to hire.  I doubt Rivera would be replaced by a sexy hire.  And I think it would empower Dan to get his hands even more involved with personnel so count me out among the group that can't wait to see Rivera gone.

6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Turner dialing up a 40 yard hail mary with 20 yards to go was his biggest gaffe. 

 

You got to remember that everything Heinicke does he's coached up to do in particular the bad stuff.  So I bet Turner told him to throw it out of bounds.  😀

Edited November 1, 2021 by Skinsinparadise