The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[theTruthTeller]

I'm not sure how Heinicke gets the blame for this season, as if we were all counting on him to take the team to the next level.  He gets paid about half of what the punter makes.  He plays his heart out on every down.  To be honest, we're lucky to have him. 

[NewCliche21]

27 minutes ago, theTruthTeller said:

I'm not sure how Heinicke gets the blame for this season, as if we were all counting on him to take the team to the next level.  He gets paid about half of what the punter makes.  He plays his heart out on every down.  To be honest, we're lucky to have him. 

 

You know April Fool's is APRIL 1st, not NOVEMBER 1st, right?

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Didn't he jus have an offensive coach in Jay and make that decision for him with Haskins?

Dan drafted Haskins.

 

If we are drafting a qb in 23; Dan may want an offensive coach to develop the kid and not Ron and Norv’s stupid son.

[Renegade7]

4 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

Dan drafted Haskins.

 

If we are drafting a qb in 23; Dan may want an offensive coach to develop the kid and not Ron and Norv’s stupid son.

Exactly my point, he didn't let his offensive coach pick his QB, he picked him for him.

 

We don't know know what Dan wants anymore. Sure, that might make sense, but I'm not buying hes going to do anything other then what beats off his ego the most.

 

All I know for certain is the pendulum of him being involved is going to swing to other extreme if he fires Rivera.  He'll be able to say he gave someone full control and it didn't work.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Ya know, Cam was never the same after 2015, likely because the offense they built around his skillset wore him down.  Think our coaching staff is shell-shocked on that? Wouldn't shock me.

 

I wonder considering when Ron has talked about how hard it is to defend mobile QBs, he comes off wistful as if man I'd love to have that again. 

[JSSkinz]

Damn it you should have listened to me Ron! 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

I This is how New England is doing it this year; sound defense with a run first offense. Eventually Mac Jones will get more and more support and he'll start to take over. Belicheck sprinkles in his share of trick plays too to protect his QB from dropping back time and time again while keeping defenses guessing. We do nothing creative to protect TH. 

For QB I continue to turn over every stone possible. I see if Trubisky has learned anything in Buffalo in one of the best offenses in the league. He's on my short list. Other names will pop up but we have to focus on areas where good players are available and strengthening these areas until we find the franchise type QB. 

That Haskins pick has come back to really haunt us....what a shame. 

 

Mac I think is their answer.   Almost 70% completion rate.  90 plus QB rating. 

 

Trubisky isn't on my short list.  But I really don't care much which veteran they sign as long as they draft a Qb high. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

58 minutes ago, theTruthTeller said:

I'm not sure how Heinicke gets the blame for this season, as if we were all counting on him to take the team to the next level.  He gets paid about half of what the punter makes.  He plays his heart out on every down.  To be honest, we're lucky to have him. 

You must not read all the threads here.

 

Blame knows no bounds and stretches far and wide.

 

That said, I think he’s luckier to have us than we are him.

 

 

[Renegade7]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I wonder considering when Ron has talked about how hard it is to defend mobile QBs, he comes off wistful as if man I'd love to have that again. 

 

I'm sure he knows the difference between a run first QB like Cam and a "i can run, too" QB like Mahomes, and after his experience he like many would prefer the later.

[tmandoug1]

We can't fix this......as soon as we get the shot at a franchise QB she will pull an Eli....just sayin.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

All I know for certain is the pendulum of him being involved is going to swing to other extreme if he fires Rivera.  He'll be able to say he gave someone full control and it didn't work.

 

Yep it will be a sequel to hey you wanted a defacto GM I gave the fans one in the mighty Bruce Allen and you fans still weren't happy.

 

And you fans are right, every good coach in a rebuild has no valleys in the process or even if they do fans just like me have no patience for it -- so i hear you and I am emotionally with you 100% of the way on this.  You'all want me to get rid of Ron, so I gave you what you wanted.    Wait until you see what I got next!

 

This isn't sarcasm but according to reports Dan does actually think in this style.  Heck his minions including his wife have said not that long ago Dan will be more involved in the team not less and things went awry as to the culture because he was too removed.

 

Any big change means the fans trust Dan to do the right thing whatever that is.  My prediction here that would mean finding his next Bruce-Vinny stooge to run FO in tandem with him and name that retread coach who can't find a job right now to be the next coach (no one in demand will want to come here).  Guys like Herm Edwards, Adam Gase, someone like that.  And Dan will feel empowered to make moves in the FO in a bigger way.

 

The other problem if he does it IMO is even though it will give some red meat satisfaction to some.  Plenty know the game and what it means.  So those 50,000 runs of fans likely ends up 35,000 or so when Gase or Edwards takes over with Dan's new stooge in the FO.    I think it hastens the death knell for this organization.  I think those who expect Dan to produce an "exciting" rabbit out of his hat as the next coach will likely be very disappointed. 

13 hours ago, theTruthTeller said:

I'm not sure how Heinicke gets the blame for this season, as if we were all counting on him to take the team to the next level.  He gets paid about half of what the punter makes.  He plays his heart out on every down.  To be honest, we're lucky to have him. 

 

I don't think people are blaming him for the season.  He's doing the best he can.  He's not a franchise QB and the lack of one is the main reason wht this team hasn't won for years.  That's not on his shoulders.  I think he's a decent backup.  But they got to find that guy. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

One of the reasons I like to go after lower round QB picks is because of weeks like this past one where you see guys like Mike White and Cooper Rush come in as backups and show potential. For the rest of the season I'll probably be spending my time looking at guys like this to see if I like any of them enough to be a potential guy to bring in and compete. The thing about these backups is that you can actually get more than college tape where they're going against inferior competition. You do have a problem where its still a small amount of video so for guys like Kyle Allen or Heinicke, maybe defenses will figure them our or I remember the guy in GB who threw for 6TDs or something, went to Seattle and was a bust (luckily for them they got RW). But at the same time, we saw that teams like GB would routinely do this, develop QBs behind Favre and trade them for a second or third. 

 

The news coming out of NY is that Wilson will be the starter when he gets back and I doubt they'd want to trade Mike White. That said though, he is a free agent (restricted) this coming spring, so maybe they can go after him. He's 26 now so he doesn't have much more time to develop but its an interesting angle. He's had good yards per attempt and QBR, but he's not a runner and he's thrown a lot of ints (2 per game). 

 

Just food for thought. 

[RandyHolt]

How RR will address the missing link hmmm.

 

He will stick to the plan.  Keep blindly drafting DL/F7 and Laron Profit. Don't risk any picks on a QB; all the draft picks we spent on linemen - they will sandbag it for RR and parlay us into a glorious draft position. So that we can draft another lineman.

 

Game is won in the trenches. John Madden knew. Knew before it became a passing league favoring the top QBs.

Edited November 2, 2021 by RandyHolt

[KDawg]

58 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

One of the reasons I like to go after lower round QB picks is because of weeks like this past one where you see guys like Mike White and Cooper Rush come in as backups and show potential. For the rest of the season I'll probably be spending my time looking at guys like this to see if I like any of them enough to be a potential guy to bring in and compete. The thing about these backups is that you can actually get more than college tape where they're going against inferior competition. You do have a problem where its still a small amount of video so for guys like Kyle Allen or Heinicke, maybe defenses will figure them our or I remember the guy in GB who threw for 6TDs or something, went to Seattle and was a bust (luckily for them they got RW). But at the same time, we saw that teams like GB would routinely do this, develop QBs behind Favre and trade them for a second or third. 

 

The news coming out of NY is that Wilson will be the starter when he gets back and I doubt they'd want to trade Mike White. That said though, he is a free agent (restricted) this coming spring, so maybe they can go after him. He's 26 now so he doesn't have much more time to develop but its an interesting angle. He's had good yards per attempt and QBR, but he's not a runner and he's thrown a lot of ints (2 per game). 

 

Just food for thought. 

 

These guys are all backups for a reason. That doesn't mean it's impossible for a few of them to blossom. But it's rare.

 

Heinicke looked like a world beater in relief last year. Now he looks like a quality backup.

 

Once film gets out on these guys things change. If we want a backup type on the roster we have one: Heinicke.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

One of the reasons I like to go after lower round QB picks is because of weeks like this past one where you see guys like Mike White and Cooper Rush come in as backups and show potential. For the rest of the season I'll probably be spending my time looking at guys like this to see if I like any of them enough to be a potential guy to bring in and compete. The thing about these backups is that you can actually get more than college tape where they're going against inferior competition. You do have a problem where its still a small amount of video so for guys like Kyle Allen or Heinicke, maybe defenses will figure them our or I remember the guy in GB who threw for 6TDs or something, went to Seattle and was a bust (luckily for them they got RW). But at the same time, we saw that teams like GB would routinely do this, develop QBs behind Favre and trade them for a second or third. 

 

The news coming out of NY is that Wilson will be the starter when he gets back and I doubt they'd want to trade Mike White. That said though, he is a free agent (restricted) this coming spring, so maybe they can go after him. He's 26 now so he doesn't have much more time to develop but its an interesting angle. He's had good yards per attempt and QBR, but he's not a runner and he's thrown a lot of ints (2 per game). 

 

Just food for thought. 

 

 

Matt Flynn set records in his first start.  Gus looked like a franchise QB early on.  Remember the big Matt Cassel season?  Scott Mitchell.    Case Keenum.   Heck Colt McCoy.

 

You were touting Nick Mullens for awhile.  Now he is a scrub who was lucky to get a job.   Heck some thought maybe Josh Johsnon could be the answer after the game against Jacksonville.

 

My point is beware of short samples.  Same debate we all had early in the season. 

 

There was a dude on that Heinicke thread who trashes everyone who he thinks got it wrong in the past on QB predictions, yet he is telling us he believes that Heinicke is the next Mark Rypien after his hot start.  

 

There are so many teases throughout time in the NFL. 

45 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

How RR will address the missing link hmmm.

 

He will stick to the plan.  Keep blindly drafting DL/F7 and Laron Profit. Don't risk any picks on a QB; all the draft picks we spent on linemen - they will sandbag it for RR and parlay us into a glorious draft position. So that we can draft another lineman.

 

Game is won in the trenches. John Madden knew. Knew before it became a passing league favoring the top QBs.

 

I gather from this post you think Rivera is BSing about knowing the need for a QB and that its something they are scoping out hard but will instead draft a D lineman?  Or is this sarcasm?

 

If its sarcasm, OK.   But if you are serious, I'd put money they are are going hot and heavy for a QB regardless of the one D lineman they drafted high in the last 2 years.  

Edited November 2, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

These guys are all backups for a reason. That doesn't mean it's impossible for a few of them to blossom. But it's rare.

 

Heinicke looked like a world beater in relief last year. Now he looks like a quality backup.

 

Once film gets out on these guys things change. If we want a backup type on the roster we have one: Heinicke.

Yep, I get this. But Just like we found heinicke and Allen from being backups on other teams, we could find a better backup or short term starter this way. Maybe he'd be a long term starter. Probably not. But if this year's draft class isn't good, why not explore all possibilities? Especially if (like Seattle in 2012) we're not going to get a top prospect. 

 

That said, I'm not really camp White. He didn't really throw any passes over 15 yards and had a player really make him look good. But its worth having the conversation about guys who could be options next year. 

[KDawg]

Just now, Thinking Skins said:

Yep, I get this. But Just like we found heinicke and Allen from being backups on other teams, we could find a better backup or short term starter this way. Maybe he'd be a long term starter. Probably not. But if this year's draft class isn't good, why not explore all possibilities? Especially if (like Seattle in 2012) we're not going to get a top prospect. 

 

That said, I'm not really camp White. He didn't really throw any passes over 15 yards and had a player really make him look good. But its worth having the conversation about guys who could be options next year. 

 

The answer is to find a starting quarterback to be the starter.

 

Not a backup to be the starter.

[Thinking Skins]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Matt Flynn set records in his first start.  Gus looked like a franchise QB early on.  Remember the big Matt Cassel season?  Scott Mitchell.    Case Keenum.   Heck Colt McCoy.

 

You were touting Nick Mullens for awhile.  Now he is a scrub who was lucky to get a job.   Heck some thought maybe Josh Johsnon could be the answer after the game against Jacksonville.

 

My point is beware of short samples.  Same debate we all had early in the season. 

 

There was a dude on that Heinicke thread who trashes everyone who he thinks got it wrong in the past on QB predictions, yet he is telling us he believes that Heinicke is the next Mark Rypien after his hot start.  

 

There are so many teases throughout time in the NFL. 

Exactly. Its not a perfect science. There are also guys who made the jump (Hasselbeck, Fitzpatrick, Brunell, Aaron something who went to NO, dude from Atlanta). Not saying White is the answer, just including him in the conversation. 

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

The answer is to find a starting quarterback to be the starter.

 

Not a backup to be the starter.

Well that may be your goal. My goal is to try to improve the team. Right now we see where we are with Taylor. My question is will a QB from the draft or a backup on another roster get us closer next year. Hopefully we can get a young guy who can grow as a starter and become a legit threat to lead the team. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

Exactly. Its not a perfect science. There are also guys who made the jump (Hasselbeck, Fitzpatrick, Brunell, Aaron something who went to NO, dude from Atlanta). Not saying White is the answer, just including him in the conversation. 

 

I am ok with drafting a Qb in the mid rounds in addition to a first rounder like in 2012.   But I want them to shoot high.  If they miss, they miss.  I don't want to dive deeper in the lottery for a bigger shot in the dark.  The hit rate is dicey enough in the first round.  You get past the first round the statistics take one heck of a dive in terms of a hit rate.   

 

They can't afford IMO to go against the odds at this juncture and hope to get lucky.  IMO they want to jack up the odds as much as possible. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am ok with drafting a Qb in the mid rounds in addition to a first rounder like in 2012.   But I want them to shoot high.  If they miss, they miss.  I don't want to dive deeper in the lottery for a bigger shot in the dark.  The hit rate is dicey enough in the first round.  You get past the first round the statistics take one heck of a dive in terms of a hit rate.   

 

They can't afford IMO to go against the odds at this juncture and hope to get lucky.  IMO they want to jack up the odds as much as possible. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm probably team Corral or Willis. That said I do think about the possibility of them coming in and looking like Lance or Wilson or Fields or Mills - ala not great. Given they're just rookies but if they're not ready yet who can lead the offense while they hold the clipboard? Maybe Mike White is no more than a Flacco right now but if that is a better team than right now then he may be a good option going into next year. 

 

That said, I didn't think I would get this much traction. I just wanted to point out that there were a few backups who came in and looked good this week so lets not exclude that option. 

[kingdaddy]

Per Chris Trapasso of CBS Sports: The WFT and Buffalo Bills are working on a deal to send Mitchell Trubisky to Washington.

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm probably team Corral or Willis. That said I do think about the possibility of them coming in and looking like Lance or Wilson or Fields or Mills - ala not great. Given they're just rookies but if they're not ready yet who can lead the offense while they hold the clipboard? Maybe Mike White is no more than a Flacco right now but if that is a better team than right now then he may be a good option going into next year. 

 

That said, I didn't think I would get this much traction. I just wanted to point out that there were a few backups who came in and looked good this week so lets not exclude that option. 

 

Curious.... why do you think Lawrence has looked better than Fields?

 

Most of the rookie QBs are struggling to gain footing right now.

 

The only one who has been consistently good this season is Mac Jones.

 

But they are rookies. There is a patience curve.

[Thinking Skins]

Just some more info

 

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/lists/new-york-jets-comparing-mike-white-zach-wilson-bengals/

 

Thats a comparison between the two. 

Robert Saleh implored Wilson to check the ball down instead of airing it out earlier this season. He called it “boring football.” Wilson did it at times, but White thrived playing this way. None of White’s 45 attempts traveled more than 15 air yards and he finished with the second-most yards on short passing attempts (throws fewer than nine air yards) in a game since 2016 with 263 yards, according to NextGen Stats. His 3.733 air yards per attempt was the second-fewest in a 400-yard performance since Philip Rivers’ 3.732 in 2015, per The AP’s Josh Dubow.

 

Wilson, meanwhile, loves the long ball. He ranks 10th in intended air yards per passing attempt and sixth in completed air yards per attempt this season. That didn’t translate into wins or good performances, though. Wilson has yet to throw for 300 yards or complete more than 62 percent of his attempts in a game and he led the NFL in interceptions heading into Week 8.

[Cooleyfan1993]

11 hours ago, tmandoug1 said:

We can't fix this......as soon as we get the shot at a franchise QB she will pull an Eli....just sayin.

She? We’re going to have a woman QB?

 

well, the men haven’t done too well, so i guess It couldn’t hurt 

[KDawg]

Just now, kingdaddy said:

Per Chris Trapasso of CBS Sports: The WFT and Buffalo Bills are working on a deal to send Mitchell Trubisky to Washington.

 

Depends what it's for. But I'm not against this. Have Plan B in building going into the offseason. It's smart as hell.

 

I also think Trubisky is better than many.

 

But here's my biggest issue: He's a free agent at the end of this season. Trading for him indicates that our brass doesn't think he'd sign here if we don't trade for him now.

 

What makes them think, then, he'd re-sign here and we're not just throwing draft capital out the window?

 

I like the player. I don't like the idea of a trade unless its for a 6 or 7 and even then I don't love it.