The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Conn]

21 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

Even tho Kurt has a massive bias against college football, I will compartmentalize the info when he says dudes r average and just making easy plays a lot of the time b/c he has some actual authority and clout to his name vs some rando youtubers.

He also, in that same thread, says that he believes his son (who could barely complete 60% of his passes at Temple) is the best processor in college football. Tries to appear unbiased by admitting he’s small. But repeating over and over that processing is the most important attribute for a QB and then finding out he is willing to argue his son is THAT GUY in that regard…you have to put it in context. 
 

I’m glad he seemingly went beyond watching 1 game of each guy this year. I’m not sure how much to value the opinion of a guy who disdains college football so much he can barely watch it. He clearly has a hard time looking for transferable skills because he can’t get past the rough offensive concepts—concepts that have invaded the league more and more since he retired btw. 

[Warhead36]

50 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

Speaking of Andrew Luck, anyone think we should send Doug Williams out to Palo Alto in a Nick Fury costume and see if he'll come be a QB coach for us?

 

"I'm here to talk to you about the Commanders initiative."

Why do you think hed make a good coach? He has no experience snd has shown no interest in it.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

I guess as far as youtube opinion people go he's ok.

Maybe it's just those videos in general I can't stand, because I have seen worse.

 

I think the issue with him is a lack of structure, which you alluded to as far as "rambling". It's ok to have a longer video but it needs to have some sort of logical progression and underlying framework. His doesn't seem to have that. It's closer to stream of consciousness which is annoying.

[DogofWar1]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Why do you think hed make a good coach? He has no experience snd has shown no interest in it.

Well this was mostly tongue in cheek.  But his wikipedia says he is an unspecified coach out in Palo Alto.

 

Just sorta gauge interest, kick tires lol.  Also the idea of Doug Williams rolling around talking about Commanders initiatives was a funny picture I wanted to get out of my head.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Jumbo said:

Most everyone is correct to some extent on the posting behaviors and agendas. One package you can wrap most of them up in is our familiar "no topic excites more cerebral contortions than QB."

 

It is always quite a ride. 

 

 

I don't care who they draft as long as it's the guy I want them to draft.  And even though I don't care who they draft, I'm going to be passive aggressive if they don't pick the guy I want them to draft and throw a temper tantrum when he throws his first interception.

So I'm good with everything as long as they do what I want. 

[ThatNFLChick]

How should we look at the quarterback class overall?

Since this time last year, it’s seemed a fait accompli that USC’s Caleb Williams would be the first pick in this year’s draft, and North Carolina’s Drake Maye would be the second quarterback off the board, if not the second pick, too. LSU’s Jayden Daniels has since crashed the party. But the story of this group doesn’t end there.

“It’s a really strong overall group,” Nagy says. “Teams look at it as which guys could potentially start. You’re dealing with six to eight, maybe nine potential NFL starters. There’s always a random guy out of the group that ends up being a starter. That’s a big number. That’s a really big number.”

How big? I asked Nagy that question, and suggested that, maybe, this is a once-every-five-years type of group. He went bigger: “Probably a once-a-decade kind of class.”

So who are the nine potential starters? Williams, Maye and Daniels, of course. Then, Nagy named Michigan’s J.J. McCarthy, Oregon’s Bo Nix, Washington’s Michael Penix Jr., South Carolina’s Spencer Rattler and Tulane’s Michael Pratt, while allowing, again, for a Brock Purdy type of wild card. And to illustrate how balanced the group is, one long-time NFL exec said, “My hot take is that Spencer Rattler is better than Bo Nix and Penix. And I know other people who feel the same way.”

 

Muench had the quarterbacks stacked as such: Williams and Daniels in the top tier, Maye in the second tier, McCarthy in a third tier, Nix in a fourth tier, and Penix and Rattler in a fifth tier. And as for how good Williams is? Muench and his group (he still works with McShay), had Williams at a 96. For context, Andrew Luck had a 99, the highest grade in their system, and Trevor Lawrence had an 87. “I didn’t evaluate [John] Elway or [Peyton] Manning,” Muench says. “But I do think Williams is in the conversation of one of the best prospects of all-time.”

He then quickly added that the grade is also a reflection of the changing traits that teams are looking for at the position, which is at least in part due to the success of the player Williams is compared to most: three-time Super Bowl MVP Patrick Mahomes. And in case you’re wondering, Daniels has a 94 grade, while Maye gets a 93. Speaking of which …

 

 

How big is the gap between Williams and the rest of the field at quarterback?

This season started with NFL folks talking about Williams, again, in the context of Elway, Manning, Luck and Lawrence as a prospect. It ended with USC having a disappointing year, Williams fading off the college-football radar late, and his backup, Miller Moss, throwing for what felt like a zillion yards after the 2022 Heisman winner opted out of the Trojans’ bowl game.

Still …

“He’s a phenom,” said an AFC college scouting director. “We really haven’t seen anything like it, with NIL, this different pedestal he’s on because of that. Replacing Rattler at Oklahoma, transfers to USC, now he’s in L.A. It’s just a different storyline with him. … But there’s nothing wrong with the kid, the team just didn’t play well. It’s his playmaking that makes him so special, he’s so creative, and he’s still got all of that.

"And to me it’s a little different than Mahomes. He’s got the creativity, yes. But this dude is more of a runner, where Mahomes is bigger and stronger, with a stronger arm.”

Which is to say, yes, it’d be a shocker if Daniels or Maye went in front of him.

 

 

With that established, what’s still up in the air, clearly, is which quarterback comes off the board second. There’s a ton of respect out there for the leaps Daniels made in his fourth and fifth college seasons, at LSU, after transferring from Arizona State.

“I posted something over the summer—I thought he was the most improved player in college football last year, in ’22,” Nagy says. “Everyone talks about the jump he made in ’23. I thought he was the most improved quarterback we saw in ’22. Then he continued that this year. He had a monster year. … From junior year to senior year, I think he was just a little more patient with his reads and making more plays down the field, whereas he was a little quicker to tuck it and go the year before.”

“Daniels developed more than any other quarterback in this class over the past two years,” Muench adds. “Daniels’s decisiveness and confidence grew leaps and bounds this past year, which unlocked his accuracy as a passer. It was a special thing to watch on tape.”

So much so that whether he or Maye go second to, presumably, the Commanders (if Washington can’t trade up to No. 1), could simply come down to the style of player Adam Peters and Dan Quinn (and you can throw Kliff Kingsbury into that mix) prefer. Daniels is the more experienced and explosive athlete, whereas Maye has the bigger, broader, more prototypical quarterback build. Maye is also younger and has operated a little more consistently from the pocket.

“Drake, he’s just prototype,” Nagy says. “It reminded me a lot of Herbert when Justin was coming out, just big, prototype, strong arm, pushes the ball down the field, makes a lot of big plays, has a lot of courage in his arm.”

 

Is J.J. McCarthy a threat to break into the top group of quarterbacks?

This is an open question because, really, McCarthy is just now entering into the draft process. He didn’t play in the Senior Bowl like Nix, Penix and Rattler did, and he doesn’t have the tape that the top three do as passers. So there’s a lot of unknown and plenty of different opinions on whether or not he can break the Williams-Maye-Daniels glass ceiling atop the class.

One long-time exec made a note while he was studying the Michigan star that read, A question I need answered: What makes Maye so much better than McCarthy? Conversely, our AFC exec said McCarthy is “very far off” from the top three. “J.J.’s not getting in the top three. No way.”

Meanwhile, Nagy grouped him with Nix, a quarterback who a lot of people think is going to gather momentum once teams get a chance to get to know him after a so-so Senior Bowl week.

“I think both those guys have a chance to be top-15 picks,” Nagy says. “There’s something to Bo. When you do sit with Bo, and I’ve had the chance to do this, his intensity comes through pretty quickly. He is a football guy through and through. A lot’s been made of his dad playing at Auburn, his dad being a very successful high school coach. There’s an intensity about him, a competitiveness about him that I really think is going to win teams over.”

“McCarthy is the only quarterback we haven’t talked about who has a first-round grade,” wrote Muench. “Michigan’s run-heavy offense and FBS-best scoring defense meant he didn’t have to shoulder nearly as much as the other quarterbacks on the list but the traits are there. He’s tough, he’s accurate, he can make plays under duress, he can make off-platform throws, he extends plays and he’s a threat as a runner. “

One interesting element here will be how McCarthy is seen after he gets, well, seen. One veteran exec told me in the fall that he was taken aback by how narrow and lanky the Wolverines quarterback was, calling him a “stretched-out Bryce Young.” So how tall McCarthy comes in at and how much he weighs will be a factor, as will NFL teams eyeing him up trying to figure out how much bigger he can get. (He, by the way, just turned 21 in January.)

[Dah-Dee]

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/tony-catalina-2024-nfl-mock-draft-february-25/

 

2) Washington Commanders: Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

There are reports that Dan Quinn and the Commanders are doing extensive research on the Heisman Trophy winner. The stack between the top three QBs can go a multitude of different ways, with differences of opinion on the No. 2 and No. 3 prospects changing depending on the team.

[DWinzit]

^^^ They better be doing extensive research on all 3 of the top QB's!

[ThatNFLChick]

 

 

[Dah-Dee]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

^^^ They better be doing extensive research on all 3 of the top QB's!

 

Since the article was from yesterday, my take was, he was suggesting Commanders were focusing in on Daniels going into the combine. Who knows what "reports" he's talking about though.

[DogofWar1]

I think my view on these 2 atm is,

 

Maye was asked to do more stuff, did it very well most of the time, and then forgot how to play football a little bit of the time.

 

Daniels was asked to do less stuff, did that less stuff very well.

 

Their teams' respective capabilities around them come into play as well, along with their ages.

 

To that end I think I've come back around to Maye atm.

[FootballZombie]

12 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/tony-catalina-2024-nfl-mock-draft-february-25/

 

2) Washington Commanders: Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

 

Might as well include what they say about Maye as well

 

3) New England Patriots: Drake Maye, QB, UNC

Drake Maye has people around the league who are real fans of his, some putting the North Carolina QB on the same level as Williams. If so, the Patriots can feel good about getting him to fall into their laps.

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Since the article was from yesterday, my take was, he was suggesting Commanders were focusing in on Daniels going into the combine. Who knows what "reports" he's talking about though.

 

It's draft season so he probably saw a tweet about a tweet about a tweet and cited it as a "report" or something. Most guys have no actual connection to anyone in these FOs, and this FO group now is way more tight lipped than before. So I take any "reporting" about what's coming out of this team or that with a grain of salt.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I do think it makes the most sense to bring in a veteran QB as the #2. Idk if that is Brissett or someone else, but it does relegate Howell a bit and he'd be a good trade candidate.

 

If we could get a 3rd for him from either NE or NYJ I would run to accept. If it could be a 3rd+ a conditional 2025 even better. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Wonder what the deal is here?

 

 

Would you trade #2 to the Cards for #4 and Kyler? I wouldn't ... but just curious given the Kinsbury tie.

[Dah-Dee]

So how do we take this seed and snowball it into manifesting Caleb to Commanders? Ideas, people, we need ideas!

 

https://www.nfl.com/videos/david-carr-jayden-daniels-is-better-fit-for-waldron-s-offense-than-caleb-williams-is

 

David Carr: Jayden Daniels is better fit for Waldron's offense than Caleb Williams is

NFL Network's David Carr explains why he firmly believes that reigning Heisman winner and LSU Tigers quarterback Jayden Daniels would be a better fit than USC Trojans quarterback Caleb Williams for the Chicago Bears and the offense that newly-hired Bears offensive coordinator Shane Waldron likes to operate.

[clskinsfan]

2 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Wonder what the deal is here?

 

 

Would you trade #2 to the Cards for #4 and Kyler? I wouldn't ... but just curious given the Kinsbury tie.

Nope. I want nothing to do with that contract. 

[FootballZombie]

7 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Wonder what the deal is here?

 

I don't think there is an issue at the moment, I think the guy is just waving a warning flag about where that situation is likely headed in the future.

Outside of when you first acquire said player, if you have to tweet out who your QB1 or franchise QB is, its more an exercise in convincing yourself rather than anyone else.

 

and if you are in a position where you have to convince yourself... it probably does not end in fairytale fashion.

 

 

I don't think anything is going to happen w/ Ariz and Kyler in the near future tho.

 

 

Oh, and as tempting as Kyler + MHJ would be, I'd pass on the trade. I don't think anyone is interested in reuniting a failed relationship.

Edited February 26 by FootballZombie

[clskinsfan]

As for Daniels. I watched some more all 22 film this morning on him. Specifically the all 22 film from the Alabama game. I came away more impressed than the last time I watched tape on him. Still concerned about their offensive system basically ignoring the opposite hash side of the field. I am not sure if they designed the offense that way to protect Daniels' average arm. Or if it is just a weird system. Daniels was very good in that game. Against a NFL level defense I might add. Had some bad drops happen to him and a batted ball INT. But overall he played very well. If the staff thinks he is the guy I am fine with it. Arm strength isnt the end all be all for QB success. But Maye does open up more of the field with his arm. Bottom line for me is I will be happy with either one of them. 

 

Edit: The other thing is I have seen some recent pictures of Daniels and he has definitely bulked up some for the combine. He is probably going to weigh fine there. But he wont run because of it most likely. 

Edited February 26 by clskinsfan

[WashingtonRedWolves]

I wouldn't trade Howell at any point before the draft, because then we will have dealt our hand showing that we definitely need a QB.

 

The best approach would be to make it seem like we're gonna run it back with Howell and take MHJ #2, and then if Chicago this whole time actually wants to keep Fields and take MHJ themselves, they would need to do it at #1 instead of trading down, leaving us Caleb for free

Edited February 26 by WashingtonRedWolves

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

As for Daniels. I watched some more all 22 film this morning on him. Specifically the all 22 film from the Alabama game. I came away more impressed than the last time I watched tape on him. Still concerned about their offensive system basically ignoring the opposite hash side of the field. I am not sure if they designed the offense that way to protect Daniels' average arm. Or if it is just a weird system. Daniels was very good in that game. Against a NFL level defense I might add. Had some bad drops happen to him and a batted ball INT. But overall he played very well. If the staff thinks he is the guy I am fine with it. Arm strength isnt the end all be all for QB success. But Maye does open up more of the field with his arm. Bottom line for me is I will be happy with either one of them. 

 

Edit: The other thing is I have seen some recent pictures of Daniels and he has definitely bulked up some for the combine. He is probably going to weigh fine there. But he wont run because of it most likely. 

I really like the smoothness and fluidity in which Daniels operates. Like I said before, kinda reminds me of Aaron Rodgers.

 

If he were 2 years younger and 20 lbs heavier, he'd be neck and neck with Maye and might actually have a sliiiight edge.

 

Still, I'm not as down on Daniels as I was. I never really was THAT down on him. I still prefer Maye, but honestly Daniels is a perfectly legitimate blue chip prospect.

5 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

I wouldn't trade Howell at any point before the draft, because then we will have dealt our hand showing that we definitely need a QB.

 

The best approach would be to make it seem like we're gonna run it back with Howell and take MHJ #2, and then if Chicago this whole time actually wants to keep Fields and take MHJ themselves, they would need to do it at #1 instead of trading down, leaving us Caleb for free

We're not fooling anyone. We're absolutely taking a QB. It'd be better to trade Howell now before the market dries up.

Edited February 26 by Warhead36

[mistertim]

23 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Wonder what the deal is here?

 

 

Would you trade #2 to the Cards for #4 and Kyler? I wouldn't ... but just curious given the Kinsbury tie.

 

No way. Huge contract, injury history, and I also don't want anything to do with a QB that the team felt needed specific requirements in his contract that he watch a certain amount of film.

[Dah-Dee]

14 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

As for Daniels. I watched some more all 22 film this morning on him. Specifically the all 22 film from the Alabama game. 

 

Gotta say every time I see/hear a mention of the Alabama game, I get angry all over again at Saban, for letting Turner off the leash to knock Daniels out of the game with a vicious helmet/helmet hit that should have resulted in ejection for targeting, after these halftime comments:

 

“It's the whole thing, man. The guy is killing us with the scrambles,” Saban said of Daniels during halftime of Alabama football vs. LSU in Week 10 (h/t Mike Rodak of Bama247). “We're not keeping him in the pocket. We're playing a lot of match coverage, so there's nobody to break on the ball when he does scramble. We got spies on him. The spies can't get him on the ground. That's the whole key to the drill.” 

 

https://clutchpoints.com/alabama-football-news-nick-sabans-honest-jayden-daniels-halftime-assessment-hype-lsu

 

Just seems like Saban saw 2022 happening all over again and decided to 'do something about it.'

[clskinsfan]

Just now, Dah-Dee said:

 

Gotta say every time I see/hear a mention of the Alabama game, I get angry all over again at Saban, for letting Turner off the leash to knock Daniels out of the game with a vicious helmet/helmet hit that should have resulted in ejection for targeting, after these halftime comments:

 

“It's the whole thing, man. The guy is killing us with the scrambles,” Saban said of Daniels during halftime of Alabama football vs. LSU in Week 10 (h/t Mike Rodak of Bama247). “We're not keeping him in the pocket. We're playing a lot of match coverage, so there's nobody to break on the ball when he does scramble. We got spies on him. The spies can't get him on the ground. That's the whole key to the drill.” 

 

https://clutchpoints.com/alabama-football-news-nick-sabans-honest-jayden-daniels-halftime-assessment-hype-lsu

 

Just seems like Saban saw 2022 happening all over again and decided to 'do something about it.'

Yeah. I saw it. He did come back in the game. But it was basically over at that point so they pulled him. 

[redskinss]

27 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Wonder what the deal is here?

 

 

Would you trade #2 to the Cards for #4 and Kyler? I wouldn't ... but just curious given the Kinsbury tie.

 

My favorite comment in that thread.