The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

This is pretty much 100% accurate and we've now seen it recently several times in various iterations, including someone being absolutely fine with trading #2 to a divisional rival where they can draft Maye as their QB of the future, all as a way to indirectly pump up Daniels and bash Maye.

 

 

I'll start with I'd kill for having the next Josh Allen here.  Some are acting like we've been drinking champagne but its time for the absolute top vintage because we are so spoiled already that we deserve even better when the reality is we've been drinking tap water pulled from a swamp. 

 

Having said that, Maye isn't a throw the ball in harms way type like Josh Allen is.  I don't see their flaws that similar.    Josh Allen had a 56% completion rate in college.  Maye's about 10% higher.  Maye needs to improve his accuracy-consistency wise but its not like it was fixing Allen's issues.

 

Also Drake doesn't throw that many balls in harms way.  When he misses he's typically away from the receiver and the defender. 

 

 

 

Edited February 25 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

Ok, fair points @Jumbo. I'll refrain from doing the whole "Daniels Disciples" thing from now on and focus just on the football.

 

 

 

(but I'm absolutely going to use "Wankers for Williams" to mess with my friend @Est.1974 and because Williams is actually my #1 QB so I'm sort of making fun of myself anyway)

[WashingtonRedWolves]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Pretty much all of this. 
 

Sticky this bad boy.

He really is the voice of reason

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, mac8887 said:

Drake Maye really doesn’t scare me the way Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniel’s do. I’d be perfectly fine with the Giants getting Maye if they lose the next 2 years first rounders. They are already hamstrung by the cap and daniel jones contract, without the 1st rounders they wouldn’t have the money or the picks to build enough of a roster around Maye to really compete. On top of that, with Mayes inconsistencies with his accuracy and turnovers, I believe his bust potential is pretty high. By the time they would be able to start building a quality roster around Maye, we would have talent across the board, with McCarthy who is almost as touted as Maye, ready to take the reigns after sitting for 2 years learning the offense, and physically and mentally maturing. 
 

It feels like it could be a way to set him up for success like Rodger’s and Mahomes were, while still giving us a chance to win now while Russ still has a little left in the tank. Last year was a down year for Russ but he was still a top 10 qb in Td/int rate and was competing for the playoffs even after a woeful start by the broncos in a tougher conference and division than we have. 

 

Giants have finished ahead of us 2 years in a row.  Made the playoffs two seasons ago.  Last season they got decimated by injuries yet they still swept us.

 

Considering the Giants dominance over this team for years, it would put the bow on the 30-30 special someday about why this team can't even beat the Giants when they suck -- that this team got a potential rare ticket out of QB hell and we traded it to a division rival.

 

I was listening to Brugler the other day talk about how stunning (implying for a bad team) that this team has only taken one QB in the top 10 in the last 30 years or so.  Getting a rare opportunity to pick one this high and instead signing washed up Russell Wilson -- we'd deserve whatever misery likely ensues from all of that.

Edited February 25 by Skinsinparadise

[DogofWar1]

I think with Maye, one good thing is his bad plays on tape, while looking VERY bad, appear to be basically all his really bad plays.

 

You've got nasty nasty throws into INTs that you're like "welp that's horrendous" but on the whole, his TWPs are low.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

They would be high 3rds as well.

 

I'd do it for a high third.  In this draft that could be someone like Javon Solomon or Jonah Ellis or Ricky Pearsall or Jarrian Jones among others.  If its late third or 4th, its less intriguing to me.

 

On another note, how about LFC? 😎

Edited February 25 by Skinsinparadise

[MartinC]

40 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

I agree...but I get the vibe some folk care more about Sam's development than the presumed starter.

 

 

That’s would be dumb. We are picking a QB #2 overall and the focus will be on getting him ready and developing him. Sam’s got to live off scraps if he’s still here (which I think he will be).

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

On another note, how about LFC? 😎

My wife is from Liverpool. One of my sons is a Liverpool fan the other one a Chelsea fan (don’t ask - I failed as a father).
 

It’s been a quiet peaceful morning in our house.

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Wankers?

 

 

 

 

😁

Haha yep that’s what I expected, maybe not plural though. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

6 minutes ago, MartinC said:

My wife is from Liverpool. One of my sons is a Liverpool fan the other one a Chelsea fan (don’t ask - I failed as a father).
 

It’s been a quiet peaceful morning in our house.

You must love Ted Lasso.

[Est.1974]

32 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Ok, fair points @Jumbo. I'll refrain from doing the whole "Daniels Disciples" thing from now on and focus just on the football.

 

 

 

(but I'm absolutely going to use "Wankers for Williams" to mess with my friend @Est.1974 and because Williams is actually my #1 QB so I'm sort of making fun of myself anyway)

All good here too 

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd do it for a high third.  In this draft that could be someone like Javon Solomon or Jonah Ellis or Ricky Pearsall or Jarrian Jones among others.  If its late third or 4th, its less intriguing to me.

 

On another note, how about LFC? 😎

As much as I typically dislike LFC, I was pleased the absolute trust Klopp placed in that group of young players came good, against that sham of overpaid and overrated CFC team. Fair play to Klopp and LFC.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Well, this Drake Maye fellow sounds like a dream. What about measurables though? Is he big enough? Can’t he run fast?

Edited February 25 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Jumbo]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

Ok, fair points @Jumbo. I'll refrain from doing the whole "Daniels Disciples" thing from now on and focus just on the football.

 

 

 

(but I'm absolutely going to use "Wankers for Williams" to mess with my friend @Est.1974 and because Williams is actually my #1 QB so I'm sort of making fun of myself anyway)

 

I don't mean this to serve as a 007 License to Kill, but you've consistently been one who knows how to remain within the lines while "pushing" at appropriate levels in appropriate situations.   

 

And of course long timers know that humor, self-awareness, and occasional bursts of humility mixed in with assertively  challenging typical message board hijinks 😁 works really well.

 

Now I need to get back to football so my two cents is placed im that camp that figures all three top guys belong separated from the rest.  And that Williams is reasonably argued to be #1.

 

And be happy to get either Daniels or Maye as a solid and significant upgrade from any swing we've taken at the position in a very long time.

 

But I have a preference for Maye based on nothing particularly erudite or brilliantly insightful, just the widely noted pros and cons of each similar to what you get from the usual media suspects and relevant film breakdowns.

 

I do tend to take in the arguments from the college career fanboys of either guy with a grain of salt, and I often don't care for what some "fanboys" bring to the table in terms of comportment during my twenty years of moderating.

 

But I take data as data, and being a long time participant in Big Boy research and analysis professionally, tend to eye interpretations of data, or which data is meaningful in what ways, with that type of eye.

 

All which means I have about the same right to wrong ratio as most knowledgeable long time football fans. 😛

 

[MartinC]

32 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

You must love Ted Lasso.

Actually I do. It’s a good show!

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

 

As much as I typically dislike LFC, I was pleased the absolute trust Klopp placed in that group of young players came good, against that sham of overpaid and overrated CFC team. Fair play to Klopp and LFC.

 

Yeah that was insane.  I thought they were finished when they took out McAllister, Robertson, Gakpo and doubled down on even more youth in that game.

 

Transitioning that point to this team.  I don't know if Quinn is Klopp level inspirational but he seems to be of that brand-style -- emotional, positive, motivator type and hopefully that drives this team next season.

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

 

Was listening to a PFF guy talk about this on a podcast.  That is, for the last two years if you look at the 6 categories that PFF deems correlates to success in the pros, Maye registers as the #1 QB in this class.  I know one of those categories is ratings in a clean pocket.  They explained that its a better metric to judge a QB when everything is set up right for a successful play than set up wrong.

[HTTRDynasty]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Was listening to a PFF guy talk about this on a podcast.  That is, for the last two years if you look at the 6 categories that PFF deems correlates to success in the pros, Maye registers as the #1 QB in this class.  I know one of those categories is ratings in a clean pocket.  They explained that its a better metric to judge a QB when everything is set up right for a successful play than set up wrong.

 

Yeah, I posted the article about this last weekend:

 

 

 

 

Maye's grading is super impressive, and the "clean pocket" metrics are especially important to consider when you realize Maye also leads this class in "Pressured Dropbacks per Game".

 

 

[mac8887]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Giants have finished ahead of us 2 years in a row.  Made the playoffs two seasons ago.  Last season they got decimated by injuries yet they still swept us.

 

Considering the Giants dominance over this team for years, it would put the bow on the 30-30 special someday about why this team can't even beat the Giants when they suck -- that this team got a potential rare ticket out of QB hell and we traded it to a division rival.

 

I was listening to Brugler the other day talk about how stunning (implying for a bad team) that this team has only taken one QB in the top 10 in the last 30 years or so.  Getting a rare opportunity to pick one this high and instead signing washed up Russell Wilson -- we'd deserve whatever misery likely ensues from all of that.

Signing Russ and drafting McCarthy. I like McCarthy better than Maye as a prospect.

[srtman04]

15 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Signing Russ and drafting McCarthy. I like McCarthy better than Maye as a prospect.

 

McCarthy over Maye....are you ****ing nuts?   

[mac8887]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I get what you're saying, but I think this is a bit too much "both-side-ism". Most people who prefer Maye have made their arguments but don't just keep pumping them over and over and then doing anything they can to bash people who like someone else. I prefer Maye but I'd be fine if our FO decides Daniels is a better fit or prospect. Most people who prefer Maye are the same from what I've seen.

 

Many of the Daniels people, especially the LSU fan transplants, IMO are far more rabid about pumping their guy and detracting from Maye. To the point where they're saying Josh Allen sucks (since Maye has been compared in some ways to him) and suggesting that we trade the second pick to the Giants so they can pick Maye, as an indirect way to bash Maye.

 

It's loony, just like the Hivers of old.

I think your love for Maye has got you a little off kilter. It was my take to trade the pick to the giants and for them to pick maye, and you assume it’s to bash maye and prop up Daniels when in reality it had nothing to do with either of those. Your love for maye has got you delusional, defending him when nobody is even attacking him.

 

My whole thing is I really like JJ McCarthy because of his 3rd down numbers, the fact that he runs well, the fact that he makes every throw, and did I mention his 3rd down numbers? The dude is amazing when it counts the most, on top of that the Pundits are saying you can get Russel Wilson for league minimum. That’s why I’d like to get him, you won’t find any other vet qb for that cheap, and even though I think McCarthy is a better prospect than Maye, I think Maye is more ready to start year 1. I’d really want McCarthy to sit a year or 2. On top of that I stated we’d get 3 first rounders for our pick.

 

not only that, this is just a hypothetical that I thought would be fun to talk about, especially with the way McCarthy is rising up the boards, and the giants apparent covetness for Maye. It’s not even something I’m sure that I’d want to happen, but wanted to throw it out their in the ether for discussion to get others thoughts. This is a message board after all.

 

look, I prefer we find a way to trade up for Caleb Williams, and prefer Daniels over Maye if we can’t get Williams. I probably would prefer McCarthy and Wilson on vet minimum for 2 years plus 2 first rounders over Maye as well, and maybe even over Daniels, just for the fact I really like McCarthy especially if he gets to sit and learn and grow physically and mentally for a year, he really needs to add about 10-15 lbs. but in know way was I trying to bash Maye. Stop taking everything to heart.

[mac8887]

13 minutes ago, srtman04 said:

 

McCarthy over Maye....are you ****ing nuts?   

McCarthy plus Russ Wilson on vet minimum for 2 years, plus a 1st rounder in 2025, plus a first rounder in 2026, that would give us 4 first rounders over the next two years to build the roster, likely high ones because of Daniel jones contract situation, I don’t see the giants winning many games the next two years

Edited February 25 by mac8887

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

 

Not sure where that guy is pulling his stats from but PFF gave one guy an even lower TWP rate than Maye last year.

 

 

They say that TWP rate is the same as his body fat percentage BTW...

[Skinsinparadise]

44 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Signing Russ and drafting McCarthy. I like McCarthy better than Maye as a prospect.

 

OK but what if scouts have a better assessment of Maye than you do?  Judging by what's mostly come out in drips and drabs as to leaks -- yes scouts like McCarthy better than the draft media-fans do but they are also even higher on Maye than McCarthy.

 

Shoudn't it be at least considered that most scouts have a better assessment of Maye as a player than you do  -- and if that's at least possible are you really that confident that you see the forest for the trees better than than professionals do on the subject to risk sendiing Maye to a division rival?

 

I have some takes on some players but am not so into my opinion where it feels so definitive where I'd go against consensus takes on said player with total confidence let alone send said player to a division rival. 

 

Heck Logan Paulsen who played the game and has some good takes made a similar point specific to Drake Maye ironically in his last podcast saying he can't ignore just all the accolades and brush off so many other opinions on the player so he took a deeper dive into the player and came out of it with a much higher opinion of him -- to the extent that he's considering bumping him up to #2, when he was previously #3.

 

Not saying your outlier take can't be right and the others can't be wrong.  But if feels a bit over the top confidence wise that you feel that you have that good of an assessment of a player where you'd go against consensus and also give him to a division rival.   

Edited February 25 by Skinsinparadise

[redskinss]

10 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I think McCarthy is a better prospect than Maye, I think Maye is more ready to start year 1

 

As I'm reading your post, I was finding myself disagreeing with your opinions but also respecting them as such, opinions that in the end could be correct but when I got to this opinion I got confused. 

 

By all accounts that are pretty much indisputable, maye is a far superior prospect than Mccarthy from a physical standpoint. 

Much stronger arm, taller, heavier, etc.

 

If you believe maye is more pro ready and he's all those other things above Mccarthy  Then how does that line up with your opinion that he's a better prospect?

 

Just seems very odd to me that you think he's more pro ready and somehow a lesser prospect.

 

[mac8887]

13 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

As I'm reading your post, I was finding myself disagreeing with your opinions but also respecting them as such, opinions that in the end could be correct but when I got to this opinion I got confused. 

 

By all accounts that are pretty much indisputable, maye is a far superior prospect than Mccarthy from a physical standpoint. 

Much stronger arm, taller, heavier, etc.

 

If you believe maye is more pro ready and he's all those other things above Mccarthy  Then how does that line up with your opinion that he's a better prospect?

 

Just seems very odd to me that you think he's more pro ready and somehow a lesser prospect.

 

I think McCarthy has room to grow into his body, where Maye has a grown mans body. I like McCarthy because he is clutch on 3rd down, and has great mechanics, he looks like Jordan Love but with great  mechanics. On top of that JJ is dynamite on 3rd down. I just think when JJ adds on a few lbs, he will be just as good, if not better than Maye, and the cherry on top would be the hypothetical 2 extra first rounders